nick76 Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said: Exactly, but obviously Purslow cannot sack Smith without the owners being agreed on it. There has to be some ruthlessness on both sides, but ultimately it will come down to whether they think Smith is doing the job they have asked him to do. From comments before they say they speak to each other (NSWE and Purslow) all the time so they’ll be on the same page anyway. They won’t be thinking of these things in isolation of each other. If they were talking along those lines, which I doubt they are, it would be discussed over a period and they’d already know what each is thinking on the subject. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said: Exactly, but obviously Purslow cannot sack Smith without the owners being agreed on it. There has to be some ruthlessness on both sides, but ultimately it will come down to whether they think Smith is doing the job they have asked him to do. Agreed, but if Purslow says to NSWE that Smith should be sacked and they disagree then Purslow's position is untenable. If the owners go against such a significant decision by the CEO then Purslow would have to walk. It is a very sensitive situation as Purslow needs to get the timing absolutely spot on. He pulls the plug too early and he has to walk, he leaves it too late and he is not doing his job as per NSWE's requirements and he should walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_jW Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 4 hours ago, TRO said: It really is as simple as that, Paul I have no idea who, or interest in seeking out another manager, I want our current manager, to step up to the plate and demand, yes demand, better from this 11 he chooses. There is no guarantee any other manager can do better. And therin lies part of the problem, TRO. He will stick with his favourites, even though they are out of form, and it's this loyalty that will ultimately, in all probability cost him his job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 7 minutes ago, Dave_jW said: And therin lies part of the problem, TRO. He will stick with his favourites, even though they are out of form, and it's this loyalty that will ultimately, in all probability cost him his job. I think most managers stick to their favourites so I don’t think he’s unique in that but you’re right that is a key component of whether he succeeds or fails. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: At the moment there’s a lot of questioning of his tactics, man management, interviews, etc If there are 2 more defeats the personal insults along with the ‘get out my club’ will start. No More cabbages.....That was a dark day, for our dignity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 14 minutes ago, nick76 said: I think most managers stick to their favourites so I don’t think he’s unique in that but you’re right that is a key component of whether he succeeds or fails. Correct. I don't get why people try to make out that standard things in football are unique to Dean Smith not being good enough 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 So cabbages are out then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 1 hour ago, nick76 said: I know, I laughed after I posted. I was trying to explain I think it’s a lot the system but also form and injuries to various players. The part that confused even myself in my head is some of the form…is that then down to the system or just poor form… Been a long day, sorry! I knew what you meant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 15 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: The best managers don't. They play who is performing best. Pep, Tucal. Klopp dropped Mane remember and Henderson the fans favourite. An before people say they can afford to, maybe they can, but they also have much higher expectations than us. Surprising how the odd few managers with the best squads, can afford to rotate players more. How often does it happen with every other club? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) I am not in favour of replacing Dean as yet.....but if I was, it would be win ratios, against games played...and what clubs they have worked at ( what standard of football) Then an indepth interview, relating to all the relevant Key elements. being able to win games consistently covers a multitude of disciplines and requires a broad skill set to do so....so for me, has to feature prominently. These guys who know how to win.....know how to manage....and gets straight to the nitty gritty of the job. Edited October 25, 2021 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 23 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Surprising how the odd few managers with the best squads, can afford to rotate players more. How often does it happen with every other club? We have enough strength if we need to. Not starting a few of the undroppables would be best, then we could bring them on if it wasn't working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: Not for me. I think he would be overwhelmed by the expectation. I can safely assure you sheepy 7 wins in the last 20 games, is not high expectation.....that is for the birds. extrapolated out is 13 wins in a season. Edited October 25, 2021 by TRO 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 1 hour ago, TRO said: No More cabbages.....That was a dark day, for our dignity. Would a wet lettuce be more appropriate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jono62 Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 The answer to our prayers https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59018115 Quote 'One of these guys could be your match-winner' - is a substitution coach the future in football? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jono62 said: The answer to our prayers https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59018115 Say no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 11 minutes ago, Jono62 said: The answer to our prayers https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59018115 Interesting article, thanks for posting. I have to admit I agree with it and was advocating a psychology coach at Villa recently on VT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 3 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: Yes that should have resulted in a public flogging. Sorry I thought I was on the Newcastle thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TrentVilla Posted October 25, 2021 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted October 25, 2021 I find myself really in a odd predicament with Smith and our current position, it isn't something I'm used to as I'm normally very finite in my thinking. I'm not calling for him to go but I no longer have confidence in his ability to continue taking us forward, yes I know that makes me sound like Gary Neville but bare with me and I'll explain. With Bruce I was vociferous and pretty unrelenting in my opposition and condemnation of his managerial approach, even when the results were relatively position. I knew where I stood on Bruce, that he wasn't a good manager and that he ultimately wasn't good for the club even when we were winning games. I knew it would end badly and he was damaging rather than building the club. I've been similarly steadfast on all our other managers post O'Neill, none of whom I've rated or wanted in the job including Houllier because they've all been bad appointments, Smith is the first good one since O'Neill which is a shocking indictment of those who have run our club. Thinking about this and O'Neill made me start to draw comparison's between their spells in charge at B6, between what they inherited, their strengths and ultimately their shortcomings and the topic of glass ceilings imagined or otherwise. Smith and O'Neill aren't similar, in fact they are polar opposites in almost every way. One had a stellar playing career, the other didn't. One was brash, abrasive, combative and argumentative the other is polite, considered, congenial and frankly quite clearly a lovely guy when the other frankly just clearly isn't. Both men, with the benefit of significant financial backing that surpassed those who had gone before them transformed the club, dragging it out of its slumber and significantly improving our performance and standing. With O'Neill, for me doubts about him during his 3rd season, I felt he couldn't take us further. It was an hugely unpopular opinion and one I wasn't very forthcoming with but I wasn't alone, that summer he was given a lot of money to try and take us to the next level. We again finished 6th and the following summer it all fell apart, the impact of which none of us could have imagined and which took us 10 years to recover from. I often wonder how different things could have been had Lerner had a more aware man at the helm than Faulkner, how different things could have been if they had replaced O'Neill after his 3rd season and we not pissed a fortune up a wall the summer before his final season. It is the story of Villa, we are the what might have been club. Some 10 years or so years later I find myself wondering are we in a similar position with Smith? We all know what he has achieved, none of us need to recap that but neither should that be dismissed or downplayed in any way. The question is can he continue the progress or has he, as I'd argue O'Neill had done 12 months before his departure hit the proverbial glass ceiling? Many of those dismayed with criticism of Smith in recent days, on here and elsewhere, have reacted as if the criticism is the result of the last 2 or 3 games or the 9 games of this season. I can't speak for others but for me, the seeds of doubt go back much further. An element of doubt has always been there such as been the dependence upon Grealish throughout his tenure, the disparity in results and performances with and without our former talisman have always made assessing Smith difficult. That isn't to detract from his tangible impact on the club but it does make it hard, for me at least, to know how much is due to who. We started last season on fire then post Christmas and in the absence of Jack it went very wrong. That was when doubts grew for me, our inability to find a way to play in his prolonged absence was hugely alarming and I wondered then if as a club we may need to face difficult decisions in order to progress futher. While last season was an improvement on the one that went before, given our start I think we under achieved. This summer came and went, as did Grealish and so did £95m to try and replace him and the undoubted void he left behind. Now I'm not going to dwell on our summer recruitment, it doesn't need a recap and I've expressed my views on it several times already and I'm sure nobody needs hear them again so excuse me skipping to the here and now. I know people will point at injuries, at summer disruptions and they are valid points. However we've seemingly gone from being almost entirely dependant upon Grealish to being almost entirely dependant upon Bailey coming in and making everything make sense. That to me is hugely alarming and I'm afraid leaves me questioning Smith. The departure of Grealish was always going to be damaging to us but we had the later half of last season to try and find a way to play without him, we had the summer and we've had a quarter of a season and we still seem no closure to finding a solution. Sure some are being reactionary to the Wolves and Arsenal games, no doubt, there are though very legitimate concerns that underpin others comments and they are predicated on far more than 2/3 or 9 games. I'm not personally calling for Smith to go, I want stability at the club, I want longevity of managers, ultimately I want more than anything Smith to work out. For this to be a blimp and for one of our own to continue to lead the club forward. Chopping and changing managers is no guarantee of anything unless you are Chelsea and I think we can all agree there aren't exactly an array of options out there that are attractive. With Bruce for me there was no gamble, he had to go and should have gone sooner, we are not in that position with Smith. I am though left with a nagging doubt, a feeling I had with O'Neill in that 3rd season and it just won't go away. We could win the next 2 or 3 games and it would still be there I think, it didn't come over night and neither will it go over night although if we beat West Ham I'm sure many will proclaim those who raised doubts were wrong. Smith needs results and fast but more than that he needs to show he is capable of leading a winning team in the absence of you know who, over to you Dean. Personally I have quite significant doubts. I'm off back to lurk in shadows again. 13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Peter Griffin said: Surprised you think we don't have the squad to rotate. It is impossible to fit all of our attacking player into the same team, to be that suggests we can rotate. Rotate Ollie and Ings, but oh no, we need to play both at the same time. AEG, Bailey, Traore, Buendia all played their football out wide. So do we play 4 wide players in the same game or do we have an option to rotate? We have 4 CBs and we are playing 3 of them as starters. Just thinking outside the box, if we played 4 at the back instead of 5 maybe we could rotate our CBs.Midfield more difficult for Dean to rotate but I am fairly confident there are enough players there if we wanted to. As often happens, the discussion is changing. The original point was that Dean plays his favourites. My point was that nearly everyone outside of the top 2 or 3 squads do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: As often happens, the discussion is changing. The original point was that Dean plays his favourites. My point was that nearly everyone outside of the top 2 or 3 squads do the same. I can only respond to what you actually post and not what you claim at a later stage is what you posted. The entire comment I replied to is... Surprising how the odd few managers with the best squads, can afford to rotate players more. How often does it happen with every other club? That is about rotation and that is what I replied to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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