Dean Smith

[danceoftheshamen]

I think it's way too early to start calling out anyone, aside from whoever organised the shambolic pre-season maybe? It says it all that DS has now come out and organised a friendly against Liverpool on Sunday because he is majorly concerned at the lack of minutes in players legs.... No surprise there!

If you think that the teams we put out in pre-season were largely made up of younger players too (which was great but still means senior payers got even less minutes) then it becomes clear just how poor that pre-season was. It's little wonder that it looked like it was half the players first game of a pre-season schedule against Watford let alone the actual first game proper.

Of course there were challenges with cancelled games etc but in the current unpredictable climate with Covid etc don't you put a back up plan in place?

I'm sure we'll get there at some point lets just hope we are not adrift of where we want to be by the time we do.

 

[Dale]

16 hours ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

It's his record without the traitor that makes his managerial skills questionable - when Grealish played, get the ball to him, he'll make something happen.

 

Without him just absolutely no coherency in our game whatsoever. We end up reverting to hoofball.

 

It's only one game but he needs to prove quickly he hasn't just been living off the magical performances of one man for the last 3 years. 

I mean he was a football manager before he managed Grealish and did pretty well at that... Grealish got better under him, markedly. 

This is madness, we've played one game. Next week if we win, I'll be convinced we're going to win the league

[Condimentalist]

3 hours ago, danceoftheshamen said:

I think it's way too early to start calling out anyone, aside from whoever organised the shambolic pre-season maybe? It says it all that DS has now come out and organised a friendly against Liverpool on Sunday because he is majorly concerned at the lack of minutes in players legs.... No surprise there!

If you think that the teams we put out in pre-season were largely made up of younger players too (which was great but still means senior payers got even less minutes) then it becomes clear just how poor that pre-season was. It's little wonder that it looked like it was half the players first game of a pre-season schedule against Watford let alone the actual first game proper.

Of course there were challenges with cancelled games etc but in the current unpredictable climate with Covid etc don't you put a back up plan in place?

I'm sure we'll get there at some point lets just hope we are not adrift of where we want to be by the time we do.

 

It wasn't the organisation of pre season that was an issue. It was:

- 2 games cancelled due to Covid, including the final sharpener against high quality opposition

- Deano having to isolate due to Covid

- Multiple players being injured, or returning late due to international tournaments

- Our best player being sold just before the start of the season, because of the activation of a clause. 

- 2 members of the coaching staff deciding to move on

You can't really legislate for this stuff, but it will set us back, especially early season. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Condimentalist

[DCJonah]

Just now, WallisFrizz said:

People can be very dramatic and unreasonable but to be fair to the fanbase, part of the reason everyone has such high expectations is that the club has drilled them into us ever since NSWE took over. 
 

This season could be the first blip in the constant progression. Nothing disastrous but may be not an improvement in league position. Time will tell.

And I don’t think we differ vastly from other fans. Could be worse, could be AFTV

No not having that. The owners have not guaranteed European football 3 years after getting promoted. 

We have high aspirations because of our owners but that doesn't justify the entitlement some of our fans have displayed. 

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, Dale said:

I mean he was a football manager before he managed Grealish and did pretty well at that... Grealish got better under him, markedly. 

This is madness, we've played one game. Next week if we win, I'll be convinced we're going to win the league

I wonder if Bailey or Buendia do really well, will the same people criticise Dean for building a team around another good player. 

[Gillz]

The argument that Smith has only bee successful because of Jack is nonsense. I could easily spin it back the other way and say that Jack has only been successful because of Smith

 

Under any other manager - what did Jack actually achieve? We all knew he had promise and skill - but it was only under Smith that we saw it consistently. Smith took a great talent, and turned him into a 100m talent.

[Wainy316]

15 minutes ago, Gillz said:

The argument that Smith has only bee successful because of Jack is nonsense.

There's obviously a lot more to it but I'd love to see Smith's win percentages with and without Jack.  

Couldn't buy a win in the Championship when he was out.

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

There's obviously a lot more to it but I'd love to see Smith's win percentages with and without Jack.  

Couldn't buy a win in the Championship when he was out.

While that was true he also had to rebuild the defence midseason when Grealish was out. Mings, Hause and recalling elphick. Was games we had Bree at centre back and Hutton on left and Nyland in nets

[Dave-R]

1 hour ago, CVByrne said:

We want to get a top half finish and improve our points tally from last season. We also want to see a team which is better in second half of season than first, a team who gel well and are competitive with the top teams. We then have Jack money to spend along with new commercial deals which means we sing more players next summer to improve the squad further. 

With NSWE backing us and a club that is clearly run very well we're a top 8 side for the forseeable future and European qualification at some point is almost guaranteed.

It's going to be tough to do given how Covid struck off home advantage alot last season.

The way I see it is this is a big test for everyone this season coming back properly. We must aim high and keep on top of any momentum but it's not always as easy to please us fans. Sure on paper we have an exciting young team with experience in it that could go grap a European place, question is can they make it work.

I think whatever the outcome this season, if it's Europe, midtable a setback and we slide backwards, we just have to be patient with Smith and Co and believe they will sort it out.

[the_eristic]

45 minutes ago, Dale said:

This is madness, we've played one game. Next week if we win, I'll be convinced we're going to win the league

I'm already mad we've thrown away our perfect season and are going to be stuck with a lousy 97% win rate.

[Dale]

12 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

I think JT would have had the biggest say in that department.

You are aware that Dean Smith was a Centre Back (not world class. But I'd imagine knows what good looks like) and we had a Sporting Director. Terry would've played a negligible part in personnel decisions. 

[sparrow1988]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

While that was true he also had to rebuild the defence midseason when Grealish was out. Mings, Hause and recalling elphick. Was games we had Bree at centre back and Hutton on left and Nyland in nets

Sounds like the type of thing that you need to do in that injury crisis scenario in football manager.

[sheepyvillian]

I recall one first game of the season against Bournemouth, we won 1-0 at their place. The great Rudy Gestede scored the winner. The Villa faithful were buzzing and hopeful that the season ahead may be one of unexpected success, guess what ? So much for first games of the season. 

[StanBalaban]

3 hours ago, DCJonah said:

No not having that. The owners have not guaranteed European football 3 years after getting promoted. 

We have high aspirations because of our owners but that doesn't justify the entitlement some of our fans have displayed. 

Aspirations are fine, but the expectations are crazy given that prior to last season, the last time we actually had a competitive team in the Premier League was under Houllier over 10 years ago! In fact, even that team was poor until Bent signed in January.

An actual decade of being so shit on and off the pitch, it got us to being on the brink of not existing as a football club! 

Yet somehow if we don't now qualify for Europe it's been a shit season - the likelihood of which can be extrapolated from a solitary opening day fixture. Don't get me wrong, we have a good base for that to actually happen, and it would be disappointing to not give it a good crack, but the people currently in place are the ones that have collectively built that platform.

Also, the recent spend is rarely given any context. If I spend 100k on a rundown terraced house in Aston, I still can't expect to have a better property than someone spending 30k on their Cheshire pad. Our starting point was truly tragic, yet the improvement has been surefooted and sustained under Smith. And improvements don't happen in a vacuum either, as other teams are also looking to improve year-on-year.

Every single club that we finished above last season, apart from those newly promoted, finished above us the season before. That's a hell of a leap. 

[briny_ear]

3 hours ago, Gillz said:

The argument that Smith has only bee successful because of Jack is nonsense. I could easily spin it back the other way and say that Jack has only been successful because of Smith

 

Under any other manager - what did Jack actually achieve? We all knew he had promise and skill - but it was only under Smith that we saw it consistently. Smith took a great talent, and turned him into a 100m talent.

I think this discussion is a bit pointless since it’s all speculation. 

But your account of Grealish’s massive improvement onwards from December 2018 seems to miss out a key factor. He himself  has said many times that his potentially life-threatening kidney injury in July 2017 led him to take a much more serious approach to the game, to get fitter and stronger, and to focus more on becoming an excellent footballer.

The impact of this change was seen in 2017-8 as he helped get us to the playoffs, and again, more markedly, in 2018-9. He was obviously a transformed character when he started playing again in December 2017.

Any praise for Dean Smith in “making jack successful” has to be seen in this context. Worth mentioning that he has also many times name-checked John Terry as a particular influence in helping him improve.

[Jas10]

 

[TRO]

On 15/08/2021 at 20:30, Dave-R said:

I don't.

I think Smith tried something different made a mistake he knew it and he sorted it out. That is what's good about him that he will try new shit out but I wished it wouldn't be at the cost of points and do it in a game were likely to lose in or unlikely to get points from.

I don't think Smith is under the pressure that some of you think, he's under no more than any other manager in this league. Sure the Owners will want better results and it maybe true that if they feel it's not working they may pull the plug but to suggest it keeps happening like were expected not to make errors is abit ridiculous.

Were trying to break into the top 10 and some of you may feel anything less that 6th is unacceptable but if you start shouting for Smith's head because it's not achieved then it shows how silly our fanbase it. We've just got a new bunch of players and things will take time to settle, we as a fanbase have to be patient. Smith and his ideology are a project and if he has a bad season, we shouldn't be so quick to get rid all because we did slightly worse than the previous.

Fergie nearly got utd sunk when he came in and even the best go through a harsh time, sometimes brilliance can be out of plain sight. Let's not go back to manager swapping every season because it's paying off what is being built at Villa.

The balance is somewhere in between for me......Dean smith will be under pressure and that pressure will firstly come from him....He has to win his fair share of football matches and he doesn't need me to remind him.

Losing Jack, will take time to balance out and I suspect a few bumps along the way....but that does not excuse, getting the  basics right, like fitness and being first to the ball, winning a fair share of headers or making life difficult for opponents, winning duels......blowing teams away, or providing swashbuckling football is what's ridiculous under the circumstances.....but applying ourselves commensurate with a friendly is not acceptable and the owners won't accept much of it, I am sure.

I hope Dean has had enough time to instill some zest in to them and they at least compete on Saturday.....The team does need time for the new blood to gel, but we do need a performance that shows some metal and we don't provide a hill for us to climb.

I hope we don't come out like the Harlem Globetrotters and show a bit of control and grow in to the game....there is plenty of time in a game, its doesn't have to be 6-0, when 1-0 will do.

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by TRO

[Rightdm00]

22 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

I think this discussion is a bit pointless since it’s all speculation. 

But your account of Grealish’s massive improvement onwards from December 2018 seems to miss out a key factor. He himself  has said many times that his potentially life-threatening kidney injury in July 2017 led him to take a much more serious approach to the game, to get fitter and stronger, and to focus more on becoming an excellent footballer.

The impact of this change was seen in 2017-8 as he helped get us to the playoffs, and again, more markedly, in 2018-9. He was obviously a transformed character when he started playing again in December 2017.

Any praise for Dean Smith in “making jack successful” has to be seen in this context. Worth mentioning that he has also many times name-checked John Terry as a particular influence in helping him improve.

We have watched multiple players improve under Dean's watch. Jack isn't some one off. Of course the player himself is a big part of any improvement but the manager has to get some credit. 

For example, Jack gives JT a certain level of praise for his development. Well, who hired JT and allowed him to be part of his coaching staff even though he had zero coaching experience.  

[sheepyvillian]

23 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

We have watched multiple players improve under Dean's watch. Jack isn't some one off. Of course the player himself is a big part of any improvement but the manager has to get some credit. 

For example, Jack gives JT a certain level of praise for his development. Well, who hired JT and allowed him to be part of his coaching staff even though he had zero coaching experience.  

Good point. 

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, Rightdm00 said:

We have watched multiple players improve under Dean's watch. Jack isn't some one off. Of course the player himself is a big part of any improvement but the manager has to get some credit. 

For example, Jack gives JT a certain level of praise for his development. Well, who hired JT and allowed him to be part of his coaching staff even though he had zero coaching experience.  

Yes, it was the manager getting all, or most of, the credit I was querying.