Dean Smith

[VillaFaninLondon]

8 hours ago, TRO said:

I don't think it is... and there will come a time questions will be asked why we have to rely so much on one player, for any kind of form....I guess, we will spend again, this summer, that will put more pressure on the manager, to improve our overall play.

I think Dean has to be responsible for some things. I am not privvy to training sessions, but at times during games, they look like they have only just met up....the passing and moving is hit and miss, for a side whose philosophy, is to do just that..Dean is not a park the bus man ( thankfully) but the football he identifies himself with, is missing right now. IMO

How long have we been giving the ball away so easily.....is that the quality of the players or the coaching, its anyones guess, but we are still presiding over it.

In terms of points, we are progressing,compared with last season, but our form has gone in to reverse, so right now we are playing worse than early season, that is hard to describe as progress, within a season.

If you split the season up in 4 quarters this is how the points tally, divi's.

Ist Quarter.....18 (10 Games)

2nd Quarter...14

3rd Quarter....12

So we can see a gradual regress of points, what the 4th quarter brings is anyones guess, but if our form continues, its not looking good and the burning question is, what will the start of next season, be like.

Exactly my thoughts. Our ability to give the ball away is really concerning - we may have had 70% possession last night but seeing the likes of McGinn and Traore lose the ball so cheaply was agonising. 

[AvfcRigo82]

10 hours ago, ozvilla28 said:

That fact is that we couldn't win against the second bottom side to many excuses here that is the reality at the end of the day and it's poor.

We have done very poor against teams in the bottom 6 this season and it is not acceptable imo.

[Zatman]

44 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

We have done very poor against teams in the bottom 6 this season and it is not acceptable imo.

21 points out of 36, hardly very poor

Everton have 19 points vs them and Liverpool have 11 points vs the bottom 6

Edited April 26, 2021 by Zatman

[TRO]

7 hours ago, QldVilla said:

I don't think it is as simple as a regression in points and it pointing to the form of the squad.

We were very good up to the new year, we then had a COVID outbreak and we have no idea how or for how long it impacted on the team.

IMO, we did very well to play twice a week for 3-4 weeks in a row, as it was quite difficult to come up in the latter parts each game. We then saw the drop in form, even Jack, and was the cause a psychological drop in intensity due to COVID and having to play all those games within a small time frame? These are some of the outstanding questions that only the Manager can his coaching/medical team know the answer.

We then lose out most influential player for the next 8-9 games and we see a drop in opportunities and goals.

Sometimes the answer stare's you in the face.

IMO the problem over the past 3 months has been creativity in the final 3rd and taking our chances and putting the ball in the back of the net. Against WBA we could of had 5, but didn't work the keeper enough.

I disagree.

Every team loses influential players, its about covering eventualities and rolling your sleeves up, to compete.

If I may be as bold as to say, the tone of your posts,recently, seems to have changed somewhat, from challenging to compliant, has something triggered a change of heart...not a criticism, just an observation, I respect your views in general.

Firstly, Dean has ruled out any references to Covid, he said he has heard that line and refutes Covid having anything to do with our form, so his honesty, must be respected, he could easily have hidden behind that, but he didn't.

The last 3 games we have gone ahead first, we have scored 47 goals all season only failing 7 times in 32 games.....I think we have plenty of opportunities to score, even without Jack, albeit Jack helps enormously...our problem is holding a lead and resisting the opposition to get back in the game....as you say " sometimes the answer stares you in the face".

Getting the first goal in a game is an enormous lift and in most cases enhances the confidence in a team.....our problem lies in midfield, we can't contain the oppostion or sustain pressure on them, we give the ball away at a troublesome rate and subsequently, brings the opposition, back in to the game, we surrender the initiative in a game very easily and rely in the main for the defence to recover the ball. When we recover the ball in midfield, its usually through loose balls from misplaced passes, we rarely win it through tenacity of a tackle or challenge...we don't go after the ball enough, we just wait for opposition errors, and sadly the top teams make less of them.

No team can rule out having too much creativity, we all want more....but IMO its not where our immediate priorities lie....even if I would not baulk at more creativity, who would?

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by TRO

[The Other Mat]

41 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

We have done very poor against teams in the bottom 6 this season and it is not acceptable imo.

Isn't it 6 wins 3 Draws and 3 losses, against the bottom 6? That's hardly very poor for a mid-table side. 

[TRO]

44 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

We have done very poor against teams in the bottom 6 this season and it is not acceptable imo.

There may be a tell tale sign there apart from us being safe....The bottom teams get about you, we don't like that....They deny us the crucial space we need to function and it disrupts our ideal game.

[lexicon]

18 minutes ago, The Other Mat said:

Isn't it 6 wins 3 Draws and 3 losses, against the bottom 6? That's hardly very poor for a mid-table side. 

Yeah but the narrative is that Smith is out of his depth apparently. Despite a lot of progress this season and not having his best player for a sizable chunk of it.

[The Fun Factory]

1 hour ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

We have done very poor against teams in the bottom 6 this season and it is not acceptable imo.

Is that actually true though?

I have it as in the 12 games played v the current bottom 6 we have won 6, drawn 3 and lost 3. That is about half our wins for this season.

The only really crappy result was the away defeat versus Sheffield United.  We could have got something at home V Southampton and Brighton.

The equivalent of the last season for the bottom 7 (exclude us we were actually in the bottom 6) it was won 5, drawn 3 and lost 4.  So slight progression but we have picked up points elsewhere which we hardly did last season.

Edited April 26, 2021 by The Fun Factory

[TRO]

4 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Not sure why you've selected quarters. 

Think it was @Paulie who shared a table showing we are 14th over the last 17 games. 

Even during this so called abysmal run, we're still performing at the rate we probably should have all season. In that at the start of the year, if we'd consistently been around 14th I doubt there'd be so much stamping and complaining.

Short off season meant we rode our momentum straight into this one and with some new players started off on fire. That was never going to continue. 

We've then acted like a midtable team, which is what we are. Especially without Grealish. And in our 2nd season back in the league, being a midtable team since Houllier seems pretty good to me. 

A combination of no proper pre season, injuries, covid, fixture pile up, lack of confidence and poor decisions by all involved have impacted things worse than they might of. 

You take each season as a whole. And there's no question that this one is progress. I doubt there is a neutral fan or pundit out there that would argue we haven't progressed. The commentator last night stated how pleased villa fans must be to know they're a premier league club again and not worry about relegation. 

 

Why not?, It depicts a points tally of the season in quartiles, read in to it what you want....its facts as opposed to our opinions.

Compared to last season, of course we have progressed, but during this season we haven't, read in to that what you will.

You seem to seek solace in a compendium of mitigating circumstances, that can be deemed as reasons or excuses.....It is our second season and I accept things take time, but in contrast it's Leeds first season and they haven't done too bad, have they.

I am not saying you are wrong in your view by the way, its your view and you are entitled to it....I just share an alternative one.

Why are you so sure, the initial form of some of our new players was not sustainable, I find that rather defeatest, it is usually the other way round, they have to settle in, that is the most popular argument, get used to their surroundings.

I equally think, no discerning fan would argue that our form has taken a dive and that is reflective in the incremental points haul for the season.....There is a clear pattern, the question is, do we accept it and debate it or dismiss it.

If the games are studied, we are clearly weak at certain things on a consistent basis., just as we are good at certain things.

The commentator makes a valid point, and that too will help us when we go in to the transfer market, last season was more uncertain, so we can plan our business, with more certainty, this time.....but the caveat is, will we go in to next season with the bouyancy of this season and once again, lay to rest the flirting with relegation.....I suspect, we both hope, we do.

[QldVilla]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

I disagree.

If I may be as bold as to say, the tone of your posts,recently,  seems to have changed from challenging to compliant, has something triggered a change of heart...not a criticism, just an observation, I respect your view.

Firstly, Dean has ruled out any references to Covid, he said he has heard that line and refutes Covid having anything to do with our form, so his honesty, must be respected, he could easily have hidden behind that, but he didn't.

The last 3 games we have gone ahead first, we have scored 47 goals all season only failing 7 times in 32 games.....I think we have plenty of opportunities to score, even without Jack, albeit Jack helps enormously.

Getting the first goal in a game is an enormous lift and in most cases enhances the confidence in a team.....our problem lies in midfield, we can't contain the oppostion or sustain pressure on them, we give the ball away at an above average rate and subsequently, brings the opposition, back in to the game, we surrender the initiative in a game very easily and rely in the main for the defence to recover the ball, when we recover the ball in midfield, its usually through loose balls from misplaced passes, we rarely win it through tenacity of a tackle or challenge.

No team can rule out having too much creativity, we all want more....but IMO its not where our immediate priorities lie.

 

Don't believe my point of view has changed maybe just expanded, as the issues are still there in the midfield, however I'm trying to look at the whole season holistically. 

I don't know whether COVID had an impact on the squad at all, but I also don't expect Smith to come out and say it had either way. What I do know is the players would have lost some fitness while they quarantined and while they put in a strong performance for the month after they played two games a week, Smith didn't rotate the squad enough and they looked emotionally flat for the following month.

While we have a similar viewpoint on the midfield, I believe the problem lies a little deeper in that we lack a leader. They all seem to run around like headless chooks at times, they are good players, but need someone to give a bit of direction. we lack that intelligent player in the midfield who reads the game. Luiz has the ability to make the trains run, but he's not a leader yet and not a proper DM.

I wasn't on the Smith bandwagon when he was appointed, thought there were better choices, still do. But I have to give credit to the man to where he has taken the club, he learns from his mistakes, puts good people around him and I see enough credible issues to say that the current playing style is not entirely of his own making, but there needs to be improvements.

With regards to the attack, I'm not convinced Watkins is an out and out striker, he is great in attack, but I believe in some games we need something different. Although I am convinced he's playing tired and has been for a while.

These are the challenges for Smith and the club over the summer.

[Rightdm00]

1 hour ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

Exactly my thoughts. Our ability to give the ball away is really concerning - we may have had 70% possession last night but seeing the likes of McGinn and Traore lose the ball so cheaply was agonising. 

I made this mention in the match thread. The same 2 or 3 kept making the same mistakes.  I don't think it's a talent issue as we have seen them perform at high levels for multiple weeks in the past.  For me, mistakes like that are usually due to to a lack of focus or mental fatigue. Which, given the pandemic, project restart, no pre season, and a compressed fixture schedule is really not that surprising. 

I can't find the tweet now but I saw that Villa have been averaging a match every 5.5 days since the covid outbreak. That's almost a european campaign fixture spread and we definitely don't have the squad for that.  I think most of our team has ran it's race.  Mentally they are just wiped. This is where having a squad would come in handy but we just aren't there yet in terms of our rebuild. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Rightdm00
Spelling

[Dave-R]

10 hours ago, jackbauer24 said:

It is hard to judge a manager as it is so intrinsically linked to the quality of player they have at their disposal. The best managers in the world couldn't take Sunday league players to the Champions League.

So, ultimately, it comes down to whether you think the manager is getting the most out of the players. I'd wager that such is Grealish's talent that nearly anyone could get Villa ticking over with him playing. So you look at more 'manageable' players... Do you think Smith is getting the most out of Mings, Traore, McGinn, Luiz and even Barkley? All of these have played a lot better. El Ghazi, Trezeguet and Davis are simply low quality.

I don't know if I've arrived at an answer fully but there is a question to be asked. Based on the fact we have amongst the worst form in the league this calendar year; are we severely lacking quality or is the manager not getting the most from the tools available? Is losing Grealish a good enough reason for 1 win in last 8 games?

I'd say it's both. 

I would say you are right and he were getting the most out of his players earlier in the season, that somehow has stopped because he has changed things up. They may only be slight changes like how were were intercepting and being more aggressive to now being more passive but you can clearly see the change in us there hasn't helped.

Now onto the next bit which is does Smith have the right tools available and I think the answer is simply no. He needs better players at his disposal for us to go further and that alone tells you if he had a Man utd looking squad that he would have us up there higher in the table.

For me in order for Smith to be truly judged he does need the right tools and we need to see his tools at there peak performance, then once that peak dips then he can start to be judged.

However Smith has proven this season that his tools he has now he could get them hitting above there level. Were hitting around a mid table heading toward relegation the way we are at the moment, but earlier in the year we were punching above our weight and looking like a European contention team.

Why on earth Smith is okay with the changes that have been made I do not know but you can see what they are and then that tells you surely he can as well. Why not bring back faster passing, faster intercepting, faster countering, it seems were trying to be more controlling and as a result were also being controlled more. Teams were struggling to adapt to our passing, intercepting and countering early in the season, so why not take it back?

Also this 4-3-3 holds us back I believe, until we get some world class Wingers it simply will not happen in the best league in the world, we can't cross, we can't deliver good enough, especially to a lone striker. Having us wide to begin with I've always found were to open, then we have to restrict the width when opposition finds the gaps. The problem with that is sometimes our players are forgetting to tighten back up. We should begin with a narrow formation always and then if our players can drift out wide and stretch opposition they should do. Opposing teams are always on the look out for us stretching them that some teams we just can't even coax into pulling players. Then there's the fact we have two wasted players often on the. wings when we simply could add more body's in the center of park. We often get overun through the middle because we have less players there and the central channel is easier to run that down than the flanks. I would rather us pack the center out and deal with balls centrally, we have tall CBs for dealing with crosses and we shouldn't even be having trouble from crosses. Add the two Wingers to the middle of the park and we would find that in a 4-5-1 that we could always drift out if wide if we need but at least there's more than enough support to deal with everything centrally.

We are no Liverpool and we need to accept we won't be not unless our Owners start blowing there load each season on new signings and quality ones at that (for you carry on Gifers).

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Dave-R

[TRO]

1 hour ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

Exactly my thoughts. Our ability to give the ball away is really concerning - we may have had 70% possession last night but seeing the likes of McGinn and Traore lose the ball so cheaply was agonising. 

but that is where stats are misleading....we all use them, but they are not, set in tablets of stone answers to our questions.

I still think watching the game , is the best benchmark.....but of course that is subject to interpretation as we know.

[Mister_a]

I think we aren't in any position to judge (with the exception maybe of sub timing) his tactics, as look at the state of our squad right now.

It's mid table, everyone can see it's mid table, so why is everyone shocked when we are '*checks notes*' mid table?

I think once we get some more good signings, including some wingers who can wing, midfielders who are able to pass the ball 5 yards and block the opposition from waltzing through our midfield, we will be in a better position to judge where we are at as a team. 

I wouldn't be averse to getting a new striker similar in value to Ollie also, as I believe we are limited in options there.

We need more options in areas where stupid mistakes are made, so the players know if they make stupid mistakes, then they will not in the team for the next game.

We need someone to show the team how to actually move off the ball, we need a corner and set piece taker (or 3) and someone to show us how to do throw in's (Jesus Christ that annoys me so much).

Some more creativity and some strength in midfield would do this team wonders.

Until then, everyone needs to just calm down and realise that it's going to be multiple years before we are anywhere near challenging for Europe, as you can't buy a Europe ready squad in one season in the PL, those days have gone.

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Mister_a
too many also's

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

I made this mention in the match thread. The same 2 or 3 kept making the same mistakes.  I don't think it's a talent issue as we have seen them perform at high levels for multiple weeks in the past.  For me, mistakes like that are usually due to to a lack of focus or mental fatigue. Which, given the pandemic, project restart, no pre season, and a compressed fixture schedule is really not that surprising. 

I can't find the tweet now but I saw that Villa have been averaging a match every 5.5 days since the covid outbreak. That's almost a european campaign fixture spread and we definitely don't have the squad for that.  I think most of our team has ran it's race.  Mentally they are just wiped. This is where having a squad would come in handy but we just aren't there yet in terms of our rebuild. 

but that is not the view shared by the manager.....not saying you are wrong.....The manager refutes the notion that Covid or fatigue, plays a part.

If the manager, wanted to hide behind that, it would have given him a legitimate excuse.....but he chose not to abide by that.

Dean is an honorable man, and one I trust, to tell the truth.....He may have his views as to why the form dip, but clearly keeping his cards close to his chest.

[DCJonah]

19 minutes ago, TRO said:

Why not?, It depicts a points tally of the season in quartiles, read in to it what you want....its facts as opposed to our opinions.

Compared to last season, of course we have progressed, but during this season we haven't, read in to that what you will.

You seem to seek solace in a compendium of mitigating circumstances, that can be deemed as reasons or excuses.....It is our second season and I accept things take time, but in contrast it's Leeds first season and they haven't done too bad, have they.

I am not saying you are wrong in your view by the way, its your view and you are entitled to it....I just share an alternative one.

Why are you so sure, the initial form of some of our new players was not sustainable, I find that rather defeatest, it is usually the other way round, they have to settle in, that is the most popular argument, get used to their surroundings.

I equally think, no discerning fan would argue that our form has taken a dive and that is reflective in the incremental points haul for the season.....There is a clear pattern, the question is, do we accept it and debate it or dismiss it.

If the games are studied, we are clearly weak at certain things on a consistent basis., just as we are good at certain things.

The commentator makes a valid point, and that too will help us when we go in to the transfer market, last season was more uncertain, so we can plan our business, with more certainty, this time.....but the caveat is, will we go in to next season with the bouyancy of this season and once again, lay to rest the flirting with relegation.....I suspect, we both hope, we do.

There are lots of ways to present facts. 

I just don't see how you can judge progress with in a season. How many teams don't have dips? Or always end their season on an upward trajectory? I found that an odd way to focus on progress. The only real benchmark is season to season. Within a season there are so many variable that it becomes subjective and what happens is what we see where people try to use specific data to justify their bias. If West Ham finished 7th do you think their fans would moan about their progress declining throughout the season or claim they hadn't made progress?

No Leeds haven't done too bad. Same as sheff u and wolves. The challenge is maintaining that, as other clubs have found out. So whilst Leeds have adapted to the prem quicker than we did, it would be foolish to ignore a lot of the reasons behind that. 

I'm so sure our initial form wasn't going to be maintained because we'd be in the champions league by this point. And I think in the history of the prem only Leicester have made a year on year improvement as massive as that. I'd call that realistic than defeatist. 

We absolutely are weak at certain things. We give the ball away too easily and we seem to allowing individual errors to be creeping back into our performances. We also seem far too weak physically at times and have limited ideas in the final third. I think there's obvious areas for improvements, but again, I'd expect that for a midtable team, especially one in their 2nd season back in the prem. 

I have no doubt that again, next season, relegation will not be a worry. And if I'm wrong and somehow it is, I also have no doubt that Dean will be replaced. 

[vreitti]

26 minutes ago, TRO said:

It is our second season and I accept things take time, but in contrast it's Leeds first season and they haven't done too bad, have they.

I don't really want to get into to the same old debate regarding Smith and the progress we've made, because that's been done to death. Furthermore, I agree with a lot of what you say. However, Leeds are only 2 points ahead of us, with a game more played. Surely, we've done just as well as they? 

[Bazmonkey]

1 hour ago, avfcDJ said:

Ive been critical of Smith but I don’t think he should go, I think he learns quickly so next season we will see another boost, I hope. 
 

Smith in 

I agree with the first part, but the problem with Smith is the later.

Its been since Jan we have played this way so what has learned and importantly what has he implemented, I'd say nothing becuae we are playing the way we are.  Its almost like he is hoping one day it will work...but will it....I dont think so.  This has got to be a concern.  Does he not trust the players...does he not think the players can play another way????

 

5 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

I

Also this 4-3-3 holds us back I believe, until we get some world class Wingers it simply will not happen in the best league in the world, we can't cross, we can't deliver good enough, especially to a lone striker. Having us wide to begin with I've always found were to open, then we have to restrict the width when opposition finds the gaps. The problem with that is sometimes our players are forgetting to tighten back up. We should begin with a narrow formation always and then if our players can drift out wide and stretch opposition they should do. Opposing teams are always on the look out for us stretching them that some teams we just can't even coax into pulling players. Then there's the fact we have two wasted players often on the. wings when we simply could add more body's in the center of park. We often get overun through the middle because we have less players there and the central channel is easier to run that down than the flanks. I would rather us pack the center out and deal with balls centrally, we have tall CBs for dealing with crosses and we shouldn't even be having trouble from crosses. Add the two Wingers to the middle of the park and we would find that in a 4-5-1 that we could always drift out if wide if we need but at least there's more than enough support to deal with everything centrally.

 

 

Spot on.....i said this last year and this season...we do not have the luxury of having three in the middle of the park because they are simply not good enough, we started the season with 4231...which looked good...yes we lost grealish but why change the set up.  The wingers are just wingers and often wasted as the ball never gets to them...why....not enough bods in the middle to get it to them.

We constantly get over run and dragged from side to side.....it also doesn't help that we have full backs that drop so deep allowing opposition wingers a free run in to the box...so much time and space...Targett is guilty of this week in week out....sits more Centre Half when we defend.....we allow far to may crosses in.   

 

[Rightdm00]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

but that is not the view shared by the manager.....not saying you are wrong.....The manager refutes the notion that Covid or fatigue, plays a part.

If the manager, wanted to hide behind that, it would have given him a legitimate excuse.....but he chose not to abide by that.

Dean is an honorable man, and one I trust, to tell the truth.....He may have his views as to why the form dip, but clearly keeping his cards close to his chest.

Is Dean this first manager to shield his players and not hide behind an excuse. Also, I'm of the school that blaming things out if your control is pointless. You should focus on the items you can fix. 

It seems Dean tends to have that line of thought as well. So he isn't going to pull a Jose blaming the players, the lack of signing "x" player, or whatever other excuse he can find. I love that Dean steps up there takes the blame and moves on. Villa should be blessed to have a manager like him. 

[Mjvilla]

Just now, Rightdm00 said:

Is Dean this first manager to shield his players and not hide behind an excuse. Also, I'm of the school that blaming things out if your control is pointless. You should focus on the items you can fix. 

It seems Dean tends to have that line of thought as well. So he isn't going to pull a Jose blaming the players, the lack of signing "x" player, or whatever other excuse he can find. I love that Dean steps up there takes the blame and moves on. Villa should be blessed to have a manager like him. 

But Jose throws himself around and shows passion on the touchline.  Deano should do more of this, apparently.