Dean Smith

[Delphinho123]

2 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

I'm afraid, my friend, that this is where you look silly, because I don't recall ever "stamping and moaning about not getting anywhere"! 

You seem to automatically jump to anyone that criticises Smith is, and always has been, a "Smith hater" and give no consideration at all to the validity of the underlying criticism!  I like Smith - I like him as a person, I like the way he goes out to win, I love that he is one of our own and I believe he has a good relationship with the players.  I have never, yet, called for him to be sacked/replaced and will not, at least at present.  I just want him to evolve and have stated that I hope he can become an elite manager.

However, I have and will continue to be critical of him for his inability to try different things when we are in a terrible run of form!  I've said numerous times that the definition of madness is to keep trying the same thing and expecting a different result.  That is what we seem to be doing.  He did it in the Championship when Jack was injured when he persisted with the same 4-3-3 and we just didn't have the players and we went on a terrible run.  Jack came back and we won 10 in a row.

El Ghazi and Barkley have proven, over the last 10 games or so, that they are not the answer.  KD, supporting Ollie, gets half an hour or so against Fulham and we score three goals.  Doesn't mean it will work every week, I accept that, but it does, in my mind, mean that he should have pushed himself well ahead of Barkley and El Ghazi in the manager's thinking and that a two up top should be an option.

Here here.

[AvfcRigo82]

9 minutes ago, tom_avfc said:

If you take £100 million of talent out of any team they’re going to struggle.

To be honest the attitude towards Smith is putting me off going back to the ground pretty quickly. The immediate success that many seem to crave is completely unrealistic and I don’t fancy going back to the days where Villa Park had a toxic atmosphere that was more of a hinderance for our own players. 

I was mentioning about adding another £100m of talent, not removing it.

We all want to see Villa do well, that's a given, and we all crave to return to the heights the owners are also looking for.

I'll run with one example;

Rafa Benithez bringing Newcastle up and he managed to finish 10th on the first season back and 13th in his last with an average squad and a shoe string budget.

I feel if a manager of his ilk was given the money Smith has been given he would do much better.

This Smith rebuilding mantra we keep hearing will only sit for so long with fans, with many already getting tired of 'we're making progress'.

Yes Smith has done okay but it's not miracles he has performed, he's had almost £200m to do it with and we still look average.

I know many posters won't and don't agree but it's just my two cents.

I want to see Smith do better and when he looks like he is hitting a ceiling then many of us are entitled to feel frustrated which I am sure you can accept.

[AvfcRigo82]

30 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Don't really get what you're saying here.

You don't want to spend £100m on players again? Do you not think it'll help us get better?

Dean of course doesn't sign the players solely. Big department for that. My concern is the ones Dean has pushed for...Watkins...Cash...Konsa...Martinez are actually all our best players and whenever others get involved the quality dips.

I am happy to see us spend another £100m+

But when it comes to losing our talisman and we still look average then it's time to question, do we need to bring in someone that can kick us on to that 'next level - with or without Jack?

Just a thought...

[Tomaszk]

6 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Yes Smith has done okay but it's not miracles he has performed.

Promotion and staying up with that team last year were both miracles.

[tom_avfc]

1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

I was mentioning about adding another £100m of talent, not removing it.

We all want to see Villa do well, that's a given, and we all crave to return to the heights the owners are also looking for.

I'll run with one example;

Rafa Benithez bringing Newcastle up and he managed to finish 10th on the first season back and 13th in his last with an average squad and a shoe string budget.

I feel if a manager of his ilk was given the money Smith has been given he would do much better.

This Smith rebuilding mantra we keep hearing will only sit for so long with fans, with many already getting tired of 'we're making progress'.

Yes Smith has done okay but it's not miracles he has performed, he's had almost £200m to do it with and we still look average.

I know many posters won't and don't agree but it's just my two cents.

I want to see Smith do better and when he looks like he is hitting a ceiling then many of us are entitled to feel frustrated which I am sure you can accept.

You also said our form has been bad without Grealish. That’s losing a £100 million player. Any team would struggle if you took that amount of talent out of the team. See Spurs without Kane or Wolves without Jiminez.

The premier league is a different beast than when Newcastle were finishing 10th. The money spent throughout the division is astronomically higher.

I’d also add that I’m pretty sure Newcastle weren’t working from a starting position where players like Whelan, Hutton and Jedinak were amongst a number of overaged players in a squad where the better players were largely on loan.

We’re progressing season by season and I don’t doubt that we will do again next season. I don’t think any of the teams above us have weaker squads than ours with the exception of Leeds who are one point above us. I just don’t get the desire to get rid if I’m being honest.

[barry'sboots]

19 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

It completely dialed last season and it made us concede more and score less. It was horrific I don't see the point in changing to a more defensive system when our defence is already elite. 

I probably wouldn't go 3-5-2, although Mings has been having a few brain freezes recently so getting Hause in there as well might not be a bad idea!

I would probably look at 4-3-1-2 with BT or Trez at 10 (in Jack's absence) playing of KD & Ollie. 

I think the three in midfield should then take responsibility for covering Cash and Targett allowing them to get forward more and get the crosses in.

Edited April 10, 2021 by barry'sboots

[Zhan_Zhuang]

If we spend another £100 million and we are struggling to be top ten Dean Smith is going to be out.

Big season for Smith next year!

[Panto_Villan]

6 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Yes Smith has done okay but it's not miracles he has performed, he's had almost £200m to do it with and we still look average.

I know many posters won't and don't agree but it's just my two cents.

I want to see Smith do better and when he looks like he is hitting a ceiling then many of us are entitled to feel frustrated which I am sure you can accept.

I think the problem that other posters see with this mindset is that you're saying that an improvement of 7 places in the Premier League table is "hitting a ceiling". If we've gone from 17th to 10th in one season with our star player injured for about a third of the season then I'd say he's actually done pretty damn well when you look at the big picture. To me hitting a ceiling would be when he spends a bunch of money and we make no upward progress at all.

You are of course entitled to think that Benitez could have got us a few places higher if he was in the role instead, but you can probably understand why people who like Dean might think you're setting impossible standards for him if you're comparing him to a hypothetical manager?

[nick76]

23 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

I probably wouldn't go 3-5-2, although Mings has been having a few brain freezes recently so getting Hause in there as well might not be a bad idea!

I would probably look at 4-3-1-2 with BT or Trez at 10 (in Jack's absence) playing of KD & Ollie. 

I think the three in midfield should then take responsibility for covering Cash and Targett allowing them to get forward more and get the crosses in.

As I said in the Davis thread, given what happened today that Smith brought on Barkley and El Ghazi instead of Davis, I think that means Davis’ Villa career is coming to an end.  

There was every reason to bring on Davis or even start Davis after his 15 min cameo against Fulham but nothing.  Smith thinks less of Davis than me, his most vocal critic on this forum, so not only is he not playing him, you are not going to get your two up top this season, which even I was hoping to start with today.

[nick76]

27 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

If we spend another £100 million and we are struggling to be top ten Dean Smith is going to be out.

Big season for Smith next year!

Agreed but why is that a question now.  We’ve gone from 17th to 10th, who knows what’s next.  When we have spent we’ve move considerably up the table with Dean.  Promotion, avoiding relegation and now currently 10th.

[tinker]

Deans part of a team that's purpose is to continually  improve us and they have. At the start of this season I would have accepted  our position as we are today.

We need to have patience,  if Smith and the team start to regress ( measured over a season) then we need to look closely  at whats happened.

Its very easy to spot problems  with us when we lose. Yea some decisions  are questionable  but we shouldn't be throwing  the baby out with the bath water.....we need to increase  our quality  in a number of areas , we have a defence  that's top 4 and a striker and creative player that's close to being the best in the league. A few quality  additions  and we are genuine  top 6 challengers.  

[nick76]

1 minute ago, tinker said:

Deans part of a team that's purpose is to continually  improve us and they have. At the start of this season I would have accepted  our position as we are today.

We need to have patience,  if Smith and the team start to regress ( measured over a season) then we need to look closely  at whats happened.

Its very easy to spot problems  with us when we lose. Yea some decisions  are questionable  but we shouldn't be throwing  the baby out with the bath water.....we need to increase  our quality  in a number of areas , we have a defence  that's top 4 and a striker and creative player that's close to being the best in the league. A few quality  additions  and we are genuine  top 6 challengers.  

Exactly, we took two steps forward early season and we have currently taken one step backwards but overall for the season we are still one step forward.

[Mantis]

My only real concern is how we play without Grealish, but even then we've still progressed massively for the third season running. If we end up in a similar position next season then yes definitely get rid but at the moment it would be harsh.

[Mic09]

If we played this game last season, even with fit Grealis, it would have been seen as a good performace against a team from the very top.

The very fact that many of us are moaning after this game shows that Dean Smith has to be praised because he has set the bar so high.

[villalad21]

59 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Promotion and staying up with that team last year were both miracles.

No, Leicester winning the league was a miracle.

Getting promoted-->Staying up--->Finishing mid to top half table has been done loads before and is hardly a miracle. Especially considering he's been handed an open wallet.

Edited April 10, 2021 by villalad21

[AvfcRigo82]

50 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

To me hitting a ceiling would be when he spends a bunch of money and we make no upward progress at all.

You are of course entitled to think that Benitez could have got us a few places higher if he was in the role instead, but you can probably understand why people who like Dean might think you're setting impossible standards for him if you're comparing him to a hypothetical manager?

Possibly, and maybe I am not putting my point across correctly.

I think that when we don't have Jack, we look like an average team and the results of late have shown that.

I used Benithez as a mere example, but I don't think impossible standards are being set for Smith.

Let's use another example; David Moyes at West Ham currently sitting in and around 4th place - maybe back to 4th if they win their game in hand.

Again, not saying he is the answer either but he is another example of someone who when he took over West Ham they were in a poor position and he's had half the money Dean has had.

I agree with the point @Zhan_Zhuang raises in that if Smith doesn't progress again next season then I feel the axe could be swung.

Let me reiterate, I want Smith to do well, I don't want him sack. I also don't want us to be a one man team or look average week in week out like we have of late.

These owners are not here to spend the money they have and let sentiment get in their way in getting this club back to where it needs to be.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by AvfcRigo82

[foreveryoung]

1 minute ago, Mic09 said:

If we played this game last season, even with fit Grealis, it would have been seen as a good performace against a team from the very top.

The very fact that many of us are moaning after this game shows that Dean Smith has to be praised because he has set the bar so high.

But as has been said, Liverpool are not a top performer at the moment, they hadn't won a game at home for 6. For me it's the manner of the loses. nearly everytime we lose a game it's because we are not at our best and just look poor with no answers. Today we were exactly this, so slow and laboured, anyone knows at the moment pacey play will see off this Liverpool team, but we didn't take advantage and just cruised to the 2-1 loss.

[nick76]

5 minutes ago, Mantis said:

My only real concern is how we play without Grealish, but even then we've still progressed massively for the third season running. If we end up in a similar position next season then yes definitely get rid but at the moment it would be harsh.

Depends if we spend or what we spend on and who determines that spend.  If we do very little transfer wise, given our squad size and quality, it’s hard to argue at the start of next season that our squad is amongst the top eight teams.  

Our squad has levelled our season to about where it should be around 10th, maybe slightly overachieved by a place or two.  

Yes you can overachieve or underachieve but if you look at the quality of our squad and there is next to no change next season then a mid table position would be the average of what you could reasonably expect.

If we spend a lot on quality, we will expect more.  If unreal happened and we sold Jack and maybe another and didn’t really reinvest the our expectations would be lower.

Our starting squad at the beginning of next season, in my opinion, will determine where we should think we should end up.  Before knowing that it’s hard to set Smith a progression target isn’t it?

[foreveryoung]

2 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

No, Leicester winning the league was a miracle.

Getting promoted-->Staying up--->Finishing mid to top half table has been done loads before and is hardly a miracle. Especially considering he's been handed an open wallet.

And don't forget we had the best player and arguably the best team in the championship. An now we have possibly the best player, if not one of the best in Premier league. 

[KentVillan]

Just lol at some of the comments now.

Our slump in form is over a quarter of a season. The idea that the project has stalled is **** mental. You judge a manager season to season, and we have improved every season Smith has been here.