Dean Smith

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, VillanousOne said:

Ultimately no one should be undroppable or be automatic choices if they are consistently underperforming.

Also sometimes you need players who do the basics well like Nakamba or Hause because it means other players are free'd up to shine at what they do best.

 

I agree but that doesn't apply in this case. Mings and Mcginn have not been so bad that they deserve to be dropped. Moaning that hause and nakamba earned their place over others because they played well for a game or two is wrong IMO. 

[Rightdm00]

22 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I agree but that doesn't apply in this case. Mings and Mcginn have not been so bad that they deserve to be dropped. Moaning that hause and nakamba earned their place over others because they played well for a game or two is wrong IMO. 

Absolutely, Mcginn/Mings play well for 15 games then lose their place through no fault of their own.  It sounds silly just typing it out.  A decision like that would be very short sighted and reactionary. Two traits you never want in a manager. 

[DJ_Villain]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

I agree but that doesn't apply in this case. Mings and Mcginn have not been so bad that they deserve to be dropped. Moaning that hause and nakamba earned their place over others because they played well for a game or two is wrong IMO. 

Is it?

Why? If they can’t earn their place when they have played well and others have played badly or get suspended or injured, how else are they meant to stake their claim for a place in the team?

[Tomaszk]

I'd be surprised if there's any changes to the XI. We really did whip Burnley that first half.

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, Rightdm00 said:

A decision like that would be very short sighted and reactionary. Two traits you never want in a manager. 

But which are vital on VT. 

[Zhan_Zhuang]

27 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

I'd be surprised if there's any changes to the XI. We really did whip Burnley that first half.

True, we just didn't take our chances.

Nothing to worry about but hopefully they become stronger from the experience at Burnley and continue to play with confidence. 

[DCJonah]

57 minutes ago, DJ_Villain said:

Is it?

Why? If they can’t earn their place when they have played well and others have played badly or get suspended or injured, how else are they meant to stake their claim for a place in the team?

Well that's premier league football. When you're a squad player, its going to take something special to take that position. Nakamba and Hause have played plenty over the last couple of years. The odd good game this season shouldnt mean they've earned their place over players who have been key for us in promotion and surviving. It wouldn't happen at other clubs but people are using it to have a moan. 

You don't think mane and salah come straight back in at Liverpool? Or kane and son at spurs? 

With more signings like Sanson, then you may see more of it. But Nakamba and Hause have done nothing to show they deserve a regular start in this team. They're solid squad players and that's their role. 

 

[VillanousOne]

2 hours ago, DCJonah said:

I agree but that doesn't apply in this case. Mings and Mcginn have not been so bad that they deserve to be dropped. Moaning that hause and nakamba earned their place over others because they played well for a game or two is wrong IMO. 

Well if you read the Ming's thread 50% of people seem to think he has made some costly errors and should be dropped, 50% think he shouldn't. I honestly can't make my mind up, but the fact the debate keeps raging on every week means there is a question mark.

McGinn i think should be dropped, post Covid he has gone back to being slow and ineffective - I don't think I am alone on that but he doesn't get argued about as much as Mings. Between him and Luiz i don't know who is meant to be sitting deep and providing defensive cover and who is meant to be marauding forward, either way neither provide much defensive cover, Nakamba is nowhere near as talented but at least he plays that role well.

IMO

[DCJonah]

41 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

Well if you read the Ming's thread 50% of people seem to think he has made some costly errors and should be dropped, 50% think he shouldn't. I honestly can't make my mind up, but the fact the debate keeps raging on every week means there is a question mark.

McGinn i think should be dropped, post Covid he has gone back to being slow and ineffective - I don't think I am alone on that but he doesn't get argued about as much as Mings. Between him and Luiz i don't know who is meant to be sitting deep and providing defensive cover and who is meant to be marauding forward, either way neither provide much defensive cover, Nakamba is nowhere near as talented but at least he plays that role well.

IMO

Why? Because a group of fans have decided they don't like him?

He is a key player for Dean Smith and he'll be treated like one. No way should he have lost his place to Kortney Hause. That would have been a ridiculous decision by Smith. That's not how you treat players like Mings who have done an awful lot for us so far in his villa career. 

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, VillanousOne said:

Well if you read the Ming's thread 50% of people seem to think he has made some costly errors and should be dropped, 50% think he shouldn't. I honestly can't make my mind up, but the fact the debate keeps raging on every week means there is a question mark.

McGinn i think should be dropped, post Covid he has gone back to being slow and ineffective - I don't think I am alone on that but he doesn't get argued about as much as Mings. Between him and Luiz i don't know who is meant to be sitting deep and providing defensive cover and who is meant to be marauding forward, either way neither provide much defensive cover, Nakamba is nowhere near as talented but at least he plays that role well.

IMO

Middle ground is true for me.  He does make big errors - pretty much every game - but he plays in a very high-risk manner, which must be a coaching thing.  We want to play out from the back and keep the ball to build attacks and Mings is a far better and more composed defender than Hause when it comes to this.  People label it as "arrogance" (which is **** daft in my opinion) but I actually think it's more that he's being asked do to it and - because he's a good defender rather than a great defender - he does make mistakes.

Bringing Hause in may alleviate the types of mistakes that are being made, but it will hinder our progress in building attacks too - and that's the trade off.

 

We want to play in a certain way and some players are better suited to that.  However, how lovely and refreshing is it to have players such as Nakamba - who, IMO, is pretty solid and doesn't do much wrong - as a squad option?  Far better than where we've been in previous seasons.

[VillanousOne]

34 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Why? Because a group of fans have decided they don't like him?

He is a key player for Dean Smith and he'll be treated like one. No way should he have lost his place to Kortney Hause. That would have been a ridiculous decision by Smith. That's not how you treat players like Mings who have done an awful lot for us so far in his villa career. 

To be clear i don't think Hause is a like for like replacement for Mings.


 

[Rightdm00]

54 minutes ago, DJ_Villain said:

Is it?

Why? If they can’t earn their place when they have played well and others have played badly or get suspended or injured, how else are they meant to stake their claim for a place in the team?

Yellow cards are a natural part of the game, especially when on defense. Taking fouls to break up play can result in yellows through no fault of your own. Or you get injured, once again, through no fault of your own. 

Losing a place to poor performance is completely different and a poor performing player over a stretch of time should be replaced. That is not the case with either Mings or Mcginn. 

You stake your place to the team in training. That's where the manager sees you for multiple hours every day. Performance during the game is only PART of any selection equation. 

Fans only see the later so we tend to over emphasis game performance. 

[VillanousOne]

2 hours ago, Rightdm00 said:

Yellow cards are a natural part of the game, especially when on defense. Taking fouls to break up play can result in yellows through no fault of your own. Or you get injured, once again, through no fault of your own. 

Losing a place to poor performance is completely different and a poor performing player over a stretch of time should be replaced. That is not the case with either Mings or Mcginn. 

You stake your place to the team in training. That's where the manager sees you for multiple hours every day. Performance during the game is only PART of any selection equation. 

Fans only see the later so we tend to over emphasis game performance. 

Agree with Ming's disagree with McGinn, I really don't know why people seem to defend McGinn, sure he's an awesome guy and can be an awesome player, but his performances over time aren't terrible but they aren't great either. If we were loaning him from Chelsea on 120k a week wages instead of signing for a few mil I wonder if people's attitudes would be different.

And I hope he starts tomorrow and makes me eat my words he is without question a outstanding player, just not very often.

[MrBlack]

Good debate on here at the moment. Is it reactionary to see that Mings has been getting progressively worse over the last few games, and to do something about it before he continues his slide? I don't believe he should be dropped yet, but he definitely needs to up his game to the levels that got him in to the England team.

McGinn always seems to take a while to get up to speed after a break. I didn't think he was terrible against Burnley (Traore and Barkley both far worse), and his ball for Watkins should have resulted in an assist. But again, he's on the verge of setting a string of performances that are below par for him. Add ot that you have Nakamba who replaced him and put in a man of the match performance a few games ago (albeit against a terrible terrible side), and the debate is warranted.

Whilst we'll all have different ideas on what to do, and who to do it to, its great we're having a conversation on this without the worry of relegation. Also, we have a a manager that ultimately we all trust, even if there is the odd thing in isolation we disagree with.

[lexicon]

I'm getting concerned that the fanbase is becoming a little entitled again. Need to all keep our feet on the ground and be realistic with expectations.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Wow Everton are losing. A team expected to win might lose. What is this madness ??

Good chance for us to be a point behind them If stays this way. 

[KentVillan]

23 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

But which are vital on VT. 

Depending on the result tonight, you can reliably predict who is going to be most active on VT from around 10pm onwards. Looking into my crystal ball:

”McGinn isn’t good enough. I make no apologies for demanding the best of players who have been in Covid isolation and unable to train. Thanks but not good enough for where we need to be.”

”Smith doesn’t make subs. We needed to bring our world class bench options  Keinan Davis and Marvelous Nakamba on.”

”Time to start Sanson, who I’ve never seen play except on YouTube, where I also scouted world class finisher Ally Samatta.”

”This is all John Terry’s fault, as I have detailed knowledge of what each member of the coaching staff is responsible for.”

Plenty more of this genius to look forward to if Southampton nick a late equaliser.

[Tomaszk]

12 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Wow Everton are losing. A team expected to win might lose. What is this madness ??

Good chance for us to be a point behind them If stays this way. 

To Newcastle as well!

How on earth do you lose twice to them.

[DaveAV1]

5 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Depending on the result tonight, you can reliably predict who is going to be most active on VT from around 10pm onwards. Looking into my crystal ball:

”McGinn isn’t good enough. I make no apologies for demanding the best of players who have been in Covid isolation and unable to train. Thanks but not good enough for where we need to be.”

”Smith doesn’t make subs. We needed to bring our world class bench options  Keinan Davis and Marvelous Nakamba on.”

”Time to start Sanson, who I’ve never seen play except on YouTube, where I also scouted world class finisher Ally Samatta.”

”This is all John Terry’s fault, as I have detailed knowledge of what each member of the coaching staff is responsible for.”

Plenty more of this genius to look forward to if Southampton nick a late equaliser.

Could also happen if Southampton get a late consolation goal and we only win 4-1. Martinez making a world class fingertip save only for the ball to come back off the post and hit him on the back of the head and cross the line. 

“Should have held it”

”Lucky they didn’t score before the 96th minute”

”Watkins didn’t track back, Davis should have started”

[nick76]

4 hours ago, MrBlack said:

Good debate on here at the moment. Is it reactionary to see that Mings has been getting progressively worse over the last few games, and to do something about it before he continues his slide? I don't believe he should be dropped yet, but he definitely needs to up his game to the levels that got him in to the England team.

McGinn always seems to take a while to get up to speed after a break. I didn't think he was terrible against Burnley (Traore and Barkley both far worse), and his ball for Watkins should have resulted in an assist. But again, he's on the verge of setting a string of performances that are below par for him. Add ot that you have Nakamba who replaced him and put in a man of the match performance a few games ago (albeit against a terrible terrible side), and the debate is warranted.

Whilst we'll all have different ideas on what to do, and who to do it to, its great we're having a conversation on this without the worry of relegation. Also, we have a a manager that ultimately we all trust, even if there is the odd thing in isolation we disagree with.

I think people have to remember we had somewhere in the region of ten players suffering/positive with COVID less than two weeks ago and we don’t know who most of them are.  We don’t how that has affected them from the virus and they are also getting slightly match fit again.  

I mean it hits people differently, that Allan Saint-Maximin was out for about 8 weeks for Newcastle.  This is a tough season, a tough pandemic and unusual situation.  Players are going to have off games, I think the conversation on this forum is a little wonky given the above and we are becoming a little too entitled in some cases.