Dean Smith

[Demitri_C]

54 minutes ago, tom_avfc said:

I mean this is true but doesn’t have any context whatsoever. Of those three defeats the first two are away against the current top two in the division. In both of those games we’ve lost to poor decisions late on in the game.

We then absolutely battered a Burnley team that somehow found a way to score three goals from a game where their expected goals was less than one.

Looking purely at results it looks like poor form. Looking at performances and the standard of opposition we’ve played I think we’re doing fine.

It’s annoying that of the seven games we’ve lost this season we’ve had pretty awful refereeing decisions in about 4 of them and dominated the majority of them too.

I’d say that if we continue to play the way we have been and add some additional quality in the Summer we’re in a very good place. The football we play under Smith is so much better than anything I’ve seen us play under previous managers. I’d say that Smith deserves better than us looking purely at results and saying we’re in crap form to be honest. 

Valid points although we should in theory have had a higher pounts return. Its criminal just like Brighton we left with nothing

[tom_avfc]

4 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Valid points although we should in theory have had a higher pounts return. Its criminal just like Brighton we left with nothing

Oh I completely agree. We've lost seven games this season. In our losses to Brighton, West Ham and Burnley we were comfortably the better side to the point that we could have won several games of football with the chances we created. Additionally against Brighton, West Ham, Man City and Man United we had some awful luck with refereeing decisions that potentially cost us a point in each of those games. 

Of all the games of football we've played I'd say we were bad against Leeds after we went 1-0 down and Southampton until our three goal finish which prevented the heavy defeat that we probably deserved.

Its ridiculous how much progress we've made just by adding a few players in the Summer and if we can do that again this time around then there's nothing to suggest that we won't continue to progress going forwards.

[Jono62]

2 hours ago, maqroll said:

We seem to win games that AEG starts. But I think Smith starts the same team on Saturday. 

Same team, same subs.

[VillaFaninLondon]

For me there are three big issues that the manager and his coaches need to address and pronto:

• Timing of substitutions - DS seems more reactive than proactive on this, only made subs when we were 3-2 down last night when he could have freshened the side up earlier.
• Zonal marking/dealing with crosses - caught out with this for their first and third goals yesterday. Zonal marking maybe isn't the problem but we seem too easily beat from corners and crosses, the same thing happened against West Ham away. 
• Missing too many chances - in too many games this season we have had enough chances to win 2 football matches but not taken them, this is a very big concern and maybe some finishing coaching is in order.

I think I read on the BBC last night that all four of our defenders should be in contention for the England Euros squad, they won't be if they defend like they did last night again that's for sure. If the expected goals of the opposition is less than 1 and you let in 3 then your defence absolutely hasn't done its job properly. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

7 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

I think we've absolutely dominated all four games v Burnley since we came up.

Thumped them.

And it's one win, one loss and two draws.

That's annoying isn't it.

I hate them.

They've snapped one of our players legs in half, kicked us all over the park and " stolen " results from us.

Dyche's comments re: Sheffield United goal/non goal rubbed me the wrong way.

I've developed some hate for them now as well.

As frustrating as it is to admit though, they are " effective " at whatever the hell it is they do, and you can see why they resiliently stay in the league.

Dyche obviously knew our weaknesses, and drilled it into his players to exploit them.

On one hand, we chucked the game away, on the other hand, it was also a good managerial performance from Dyche IMO.

Made the changes etc.

Edited January 28, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Sulberto21]

1 hour ago, VillaCas said:

Zonal marking stops more goals than M2M, but when you concede one it looks worse - Barkley’s job was to disrupt the run but he didn’t. 

Pretty sure we have a mix right? As you say Barkley didn't block the run. We've been very good on defending crosses all season. Yesterday was a freak. Also Dean Smith was constantly saying push up yesterday.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Sulberto21

[Tomaszk]

2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Dyche obviously knew our weaknesses, and drilled it into his players to exploit them.

I'm not sure. Did they honestly "deserve" that? 2-1 down they score a fluke cross and a wonderful header.

Not like they shut us down at all, we thumped them and should have been out of sight.

2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

On one hand, we chucked the game away, on the other hand, it was also a good managerial performance from Dyche IMO.

Made the changes etc.

I agree with both hands.

[Lord Willard]

First half I think was the best I've seen us play for decades. That's what makes the loss even worse.

[The_Steve]

22 minutes ago, Lord Willard said:

First half I think was the best I've seen us play for decades. That's what makes the loss even worse.

Yep. Freak result. Smith was bang on with his comments. We must do better and route out this individual errors. 
 

We are still 6 points off West Ham in 4th with two games in hand so there’s still lots to play for. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by The_Steve

[AntrimBlack]

1 hour ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

For me there are three big issues that the manager and his coaches need to address and pronto:

• Timing of substitutions - DS seems more reactive than proactive on this, only made subs when we were 3-2 down last night when he could have freshened the side up earlier.
• Zonal marking/dealing with crosses - caught out with this for their first and third goals yesterday. Zonal marking maybe isn't the problem but we seem too easily beat from corners and crosses, the same thing happened against West Ham away. 
• Missing too many chances - in too many games this season we have had enough chances to win 2 football matches but not taken them, this is a very big concern and maybe some finishing coaching is in order.

I think I read on the BBC last night that all four of our defenders should be in contention for the England Euros squad, they won't be if they defend like they did last night again that's for sure. If the expected goals of the opposition is less than 1 and you let in 3 then your defence absolutely hasn't done its job properly. 

You have our main problems exactly right. Sort those and we would one helluva side.

[TRO]

10 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

What are you disagreeing with?

The finishing not costing us? We should have scored about 5 goals, of course it did.

At 2-1 up, they scored a fluke cross followed by an incredible header. Bad defending for the first, wouldn't say so for the second or third.

I am disagreeing with the notion, it was goalscoring that caused that defeat....of course we all want to score more, but we have to be realistic.....2 was enough in my view.

so your saying it wasn't bad defending for the 2nd or 3rd Goal?......they were 3 soft goals, failure to cut out the crosses and failure to get a good headed challenge in......even the manager in his summing up said we defended poorly..."3 points gifted" was his words.

In contrast they put their bodies on the line to deny us....we played some of the best football, I have seen in that first half, hard to see how we could have been better......We are not at a level to be scoring 5 away from home, we are not Man City....2 goals away is ample, to secure a win....but you have to be able to deny, disrupt and stop the opposition, imposing themselves, like they did.

This is not the first time a left winger has run us ragged down their left, our right....Jack Harrison and Aloiski, remember them

We scored enough to have won that game, but we failed to see the game out as we should.....even Ollie admitted after 1-2 we should have seen the game out "Ugly".... of course we should.

Lax defending, standing off, failure to mark touch tight, was all the contributing factors to that surrender......They just employed resillience and an ability to battle, we just surrendered the initiative to them...and do that in this league and this is what happens.

In that first half, it shows how far we have come, it was a delight to watch.....The second half highlighted our vulnerabilities and shortfalls and suggested how far we have to go....There are teams in this league without our technical talent, who can hurt us with their desire and endeavour, that was shown to be right ,last night.....what they did last night was no different to what lower league sides do in cup runs......we have to be stronger than that.

We simply wasn't on top of the basics of the game.

Edited January 28, 2021 by TRO

[Dave-R]

3 hours ago, WallisFrizz said:

I think he might bring Trez in for Traore on Saturday. I’d be ok with that, mix it up a bit. Smith was commenting in the last day or so that they are not doing that much in training because of the intense run of games, that it was mostly about playing and then recovery. For that reason, I think we won’t see much of Sanson until he properly has chance to integrate and train  with the rest of them. I’d expect him to be in the bench tho and maybe make an appearance. 

That's one way to get him some premier league fitness up by increasing his minutes every time he plays. From the videos I seen of him he looked pretty fit anyway with all the running he seems to do.

[Tomaszk]

14 minutes ago, TRO said:

In that first half, it shows how far we have come, it was a delight to watch.....The second half highlighted our vulnerabilities and shortfalls and suggested how far we have to go....There are teams in this league without our technical talent, who can hurt us with their desire and endeavour, that was shown to be right ,last night.....what they did last night was no different to what lower league sides do in cup runs......we have to be stronger than that.

We simply wasn't on top of the basics of the game.

I think this is fair.

Still think finishing cost us just as much as weak defending though. Traore and Ollie should definitely definitely have had another goal each.

Making chances is the hard thing and we're doing it abundance.

So pleased we've brought Sanson in. Proactive. He'd had made such a difference coming on at 2-1 or even 3-2 down.

[alexvilla4]

2-1 up last night was the big mistake tactically from Smith last night. At that point Traore and Barkley have to come off. Trez then comes on and sures things up on the right side to deal with McNeil and either Engles comes on as a third centre back to help with the aerial bombardment or Nakamba comes on to help us win the midfield back and control the game from there

[TRO]

19 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

I think this is fair.

Still think finishing cost us just as much as weak defending though. Traore and Ollie should definitely definitely have had another goal each.

Making chances is the hard thing and we're doing it abundance.

So pleased we've brought Sanson in. Proactive. He'd had made such a difference coming on at 2-1 or even 3-2 down.

Tom, I appreciate your view, that we should have scored more.....but is 3-5 a realistic scoreline, how often does that really happen.

If that had been a neutral team, we would have been laughing at the lilly livered defending......The first half I was purring at the spectacle, after we scored the second, i was sick to my stomach the room, and space, we conceded to them.....it spelt out "white flag"

where had the physical challenge disappeared to? it was 4/5 players looking to someone else to do the ugly work and and sadly, no volunteers.....Where has John McGinn's tenacity, disappeared to, Where is Dougie Luiz's combative skills, just to name two.....sure Dougies cross for Jacks second was sublime, but thats not his main job....his main job is to stop the oppositions passages of play.....we have 2 CDM's and neither contributed to stopping Burnley in that late second half, Westwood took over and McNeill was given the freedom of Turfmoor.

We should have seen that 1-2 lead out comfortably.....but for missing the basics.

[Tomaszk]

47 minutes ago, TRO said:

Tom, I appreciate your view, that we should have scored more.....but is 3-5 a realistic scoreline, how often does that really happen.

If that had been a neutral team, we would have been laughing at the lilly livered defending......The first half I was purring at the spectacle, after we scored the second, i was sick to my stomach the room, and space, we conceded to them.....it spelt out "white flag"

where had the physical challenge disappeared to? it was 4/5 players looking to someone else to do the ugly work and and sadly, no volunteers.....Where has John McGinn's tenacity, disappeared to, Where is Dougie Luiz's combative skills, just to name two.....sure Dougies cross for Jacks second was sublime, but thats not his main job....his main job is to stop the oppositions passages of play.....we have 2 CDM's and neither contributed to stopping Burnley in that late second half, Westwood took over and McNeill was given the freedom of Turfmoor.

We should have seen that 1-2 lead out comfortably.....but for missing the basics.

Well, we've had this discussion before after West Ham and Southampton losses.

They scored a fluked cross and a brilliant header which I give them credit for.

Weak play was for the first goal and the final 15 mins when we disappeared is more my issue. Burnley don't score an unintentional cross, I don't think we lose that game.

Not scoring chances we create is a bigger concern than bad defending for me. Purely on goals, we've conceded the 4th least in the league so McGinn and Luiz must have been doing something right overall. Neither was good last night obviously.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Tomaszk

[MrBlack]

1 hour ago, alexvilla4 said:

2-1 up last night was the big mistake tactically from Smith last night. At that point Traore and Barkley have to come off. Trez then comes on and sures things up on the right side to deal with McNeil and either Engles comes on as a third centre back to help with the aerial bombardment or Nakamba comes on to help us win the midfield back and control the game from there

I agree with the Trez swap.  It was blindingly obvious that needed to happen. I also agree Barkley should have come off,  although less clear who for. But either of those changes, before we go behind, and I don't think we go behind.

It seems Smith is against going more defensive to protect something unless its the dying minutes of a game,  and only uses subs earlier to go more offensive and change something.

It's his biggest, and as far as I'm concerned his only,  fault.  With that being the case,  it's a fault I'll live with and take given the excitement it brings and the success it has so far brought us.

Nobody's perfect,  and for every game like Burnley where we should make subs to protect our lead and then go on to lose,  there's going to be games like Liverpool where you just continue to extend your lead. 

[PaulC]

14 hours ago, TRO said:

but when do they put there foot in a win the ball, how often do they win possession in a duel?.....How often do they win headers to gain territory and turn the ball over?

to be fair to them, they are not CDM's

McGinn wins his fair share of tackles doesn't he. 

[Zatman]

10 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

One win in four is it? Pretty  crappy form we havs hit

2 of them were away to the top 2 and both were from dodgy ref calls

[PaulC]

16 minutes ago, Zatman said:

2 of them were away to the top 2 and both were from dodgy ref calls

Yes we should have got 9/10 points from those games not 3.