Dean Smith

[Follyfoot]

5 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I’d like to feel the same way but I think he’s out of his depth. When he does leave he will always be remembered fondly for how he got us promoted and how he has always conducted himself.   I think he will manage us until the end of the season and part way regardless of outcome. Hopefully it’s after coming us in the league. 

You make a very valid point. I suppose after all the years of let down Last season made me happy, I loved the togetherness of the club, the support the management. Really do not want to go back to how it was after having a taste of what it means to be a villa supporter again, Not just for me but for my lads as well

Edited June 15, 2020 by Follyfoot

[TRO]

26 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

It's very likely we're going down.

Sam's football is carefully planned out and played by squads built for it.

Smith has been given a gang of below par, over-priced signings from agents try to earn themselves a buck. He's been so up against this season it's untrue, a near impossible task. We didn't have a striker until the end of January.

I can promise you if your pal Steve had been dealt this hand he'd have cried every single week, putting the team away in public, and distanced himself from any criticism. It's been quite pleasant not having a manager bleat empty excuses every week.

If we tried to play Sam's stuff now, we'd get thumped. This lot have no idea how to do it.

I started to read that and it had credence.....until I read the pointed rubbish about Steve Bruce being my pal...if you want to make a point make it without the personal sarcasm, that renders it silly.....He's gone mate, don't be a straw man.

Edited June 15, 2020 by TRO

[Mantis]

44 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I’d like to feel the same way but I think he’s out of his depth. When he does leave he will always be remembered fondly for how he got us promoted and how he has always conducted himself.   I think he will manage us until the end of the season and part ways regardless of outcome. Hopefully it’s after keeping us in the league. 

This is how I feel, although if he keeps us up I think he'll stay.

I've moved from backing him to wanting him gone and back a couple of times in the past couple of years but he simply hasn't shown enough as far as performances are concerned IMO. We just look absolutely abject way too often. Results aren't really the issue for me.

[Tomaszk]

57 minutes ago, TRO said:

I started to read that and it had credence.....until I read the pointed rubbish about Steve Bruce being my pal...if you want to make a point make it without the personal sarcasm, that renders it silly.....He's gone mate, don't be a straw man.

I think it's got credence in spite of any justified digs at the former manager. I know he's not really your pal, don't worry.

To not be rock bottom and cut adrift with this squad, Smith has already done a good job this season IMO.

[VillaChris]

38 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

I think it's got credence in spite of any justified digs at the former manager. I know he's not really your pal, don't worry.

To not be rock bottom and cut adrift with this squad, Smith has already done a good job this season IMO.

Really? We didn't sign that well in the summer but Heaton-Mings-McGinn-Grealish to me is still a better spine than say 15/16 when every part of the 11 just looked poor (for example Guzan was massively in decline at that point and after Amavi's injury recalling Cissoko improved us defensively for a few weeks. Oh and Rudy Gestede).

Fair enough if you had that opinion on September 1st but think most at that time thought we'd be bottom six but improving by now. The problem now is the promise we showed in the first three months (some good performances against top clubs) hasn't really been improved on and we've got much worse since xmas in our general play which dosen't usually happen if you're on an upward curve.

This is quite an interesting thread to look back on, much more realism than I remember with most poster realizing the scale of the task ahead. Interesting a few pointing out at that stage most of our signings had either already played under Smith, were at the club the previous season or had played together at other clubs or internationally in the past....

Edited June 15, 2020 by VillaChris

[The Fun Factory]

Have we not learnt anything. We need stability in management and style of football play regardless if we stay up or go down. If you run your club correctly there is no reason why you can't go back up again and establish yourself in the Premier League. Look at Dyche and Burnley. 

In less than 2 seasons Smith has got us promoted after winning 10 games in a row, and got us to a major cup final. He has also had to deal with rebuilding his squad in about 2 months and how because of this pandemic (which has cost his father his life) he has lost the advantage of 6 home games left in our last 10 games.

He plays progressive football and his coaching his childhood club and loves being here. This season was always going to be very hard  as statiscially most teams who go up in the playoffs get relegated regardless if they are Aston Villa or not.   

Edited June 15, 2020 by The Fun Factory

[Tomaszk]

47 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Really? We didn't sign that well in the summer but Heaton-Mings-McGinn-Grealish to me is still a better spine than say 15/16 when every part of the 11 just looked poor (for example Guzan was massively in decline at that point and after Amavi's injury recalling Cissoko improved us defensively for a few weeks. Oh and Rudy Gestede).

Fair enough if you had that opinion on September 1st but think most at that time thought we'd be bottom six but improving by now. The problem now is the promise we showed in the first three months (some good performances against top clubs) hasn't really been improved on and we've got much worse since xmas in our general play which dosen't usually happen if you're on an upward curve.

This is quite an interesting thread to look back on, much more realism than I remember with most poster realizing the scale of the task ahead. Interesting a few pointing out at that stage most of our signings had either already played under Smith, were at the club the previous season or had played together at other clubs or internationally in the past....

I wouldn't say I thought that September 1st because I'd hardly seen or heard of half of our players. I've watched them in despair since and realised we overpaid horribly for almost every single one, so limited. Get Suso out.

We had to get points early on, had to try and catch them out. Many thought Grealish would have trouble adjusting, our best defender was Bournemouth's 4th choice ffs. Our performances deserved more but we had Wes so it was like playing every game with your striker actively sabotaging attacks. Confidence dried up as we came up with nothing again and again and now we're here.

To bring it back to Smith I'd keep him if we go down but would be interested in replacing him if we stay up. Replacing Suso first port of call.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Tomaszk

[The Hawk]

2 hours ago, The Fun Factory said:

Have we not learnt anything. We need stability in management and style of football play regardless if we stay up or go down. If you run your club correctly there is no reason why you can't go back up again and establish yourself in the Premier League. Look at Dyche and Burnley. 

In less than 2 seasons Smith has got us promoted after winning 10 games in a row, and got us to a major cup final. He has also had to deal with rebuilding his squad in about 2 months and how because of this pandemic (which has cost his father his life) he has lost the advantage of 6 home games left in our last 10 games.

He plays progressive football and his coaching his childhood club and loves being here. This season was always going to be very hard  as statiscially most teams who go up in the playoffs get relegated regardless if they are Aston Villa or not.   

Woah woah woah... 

Careful bringing those sorts of realistic expectations and rational thinking here, this thread does not tolerate it.

[Dave-R]

3 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

To not be rock bottom and cut adrift with this squad, Smith has already done a good job this season IMO.

Cut the story short and I'll simply say Smith hasn't done a good job until he has achieved survival. Smith has cut it way to close for comfort all this survival that we should of been out of relegation I think. If our results had of gone better for whatever reason due to our players messing up and letting stinkers in, Var screwing us over or certain Refs making wrong decisions having a laugh at our expense it seems. Smith for me has been let off by various happenings this season and think that's why people are giving him an easier time, when it's not been out of his control though Smith I must say has look a very amateurish Coach and experience or lack of experience has really shown for him. Over this season I don't think its Smith being to soft that been the main problem but a larger problem is having ideas against a very tactically in depth opposition and how to combat them mentally and physically, Smith has struggled with this and rightly so for a first season in the premier.

I do not know whether Smith will be with us if we survive, I have a feeling that our Owners would want to cue someone else up who does have the experience and take us further. I suppose it all depends on this final quarter of the season plays out and if Smith can show he has learnt more new tricks, if Smith doesn't impress and we survive I feel there maybe a change somewhere on the Horizon.

One question I can't seem to answer myself and maybe others can. Would Smith if we for whatever reason let him go went and managed a top ten side after us, would he actually do well with much better quality players under his control?? Would Smith thrive at Liverpool having those players under him?? These questions bug me because if the answer is yes, then it answer's what we need to do to really start winning a good amount of games which is spend a good amount on quality, scout much better and make sure we don't screw our signings up.

[DCJonah]

I've said it before but worth saying again. Those not happy with Smith, honestly what were you expecting by this point when he first took over?

I think the realistic thought, would be by now we would be really pushing for automatic promotion at this point in his villa managerial career. 

When actually we've got promoted, reached a cup final and are right in the mix for survival. Its so laughable people who think he is doing a bad job or want him gone. 

[villalad21]

31 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I've said it before but worth saying again. Those not happy with Smith, honestly what were you expecting by this point when he first took over?

I think the realistic thought, would be by now we would be really pushing for automatic promotion at this point in his villa managerial career. 

When actually we've got promoted, reached a cup final and are right in the mix for survival. Its so laughable people who think he is doing a bad job or want him gone. 

This isn't Wigan Athletic. We have wealthy owners who have invested a lot of money.

With bigger clubs comes bigger expectations.

- I didn't expect us to be the worst defensive side in the league. Conceding on average 2 goals per game

- I didn't expect us getting outfought most weeks. Wilder keeps his players motivated and they bleed their hearts out every week. Why don't we? Why don't we put in more of a fight?

- I didn't expect us not being able to string together more than a couple of passes. This to me indicates there's a problem with the coaching.

If you honestly think he's done a good job this season so far i really don't know what to say to you.

[Stratvillan]

9 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

 

Smith has been given a gang of below par, over-priced signings from agents try to earn themselves a buck. He's been so up against this season it's untrue, a near impossible task. We didn't have a striker until the end of January.

 

This is the point, as someone said just after Smith took over, he's a coach not a magician. People look at Pep and argue about what a coach can achieve - with the right materials - I don't see many 2-10 million pound players going to the Ethihad. Then people will point out what Wilder has done with a minimal budget, but time, something Smith hasn't had.

To place this into context largely our starting back 4, Guilbert, Mings, Engels and Targett played a total of 60 premier league games before this season - not each, not as an average, but as a total. If you added up how many top flight games including Guilbert and Engels it wouldn't be much more. To expect anything else than a shaky defence would be suprising. It's not a question of coaching, it's a longer term repercussion of the mess we were left in after Lerner and Dr Tony.

I'll criticise Smith for his obsession with 4, 3, 3 when we don't have the wingers. but lets get the criticism balanced and in a degree of perspective. The squad which was assembled (by Suso I suspect) is a bottom third squad, with 2/3 quality additions next year it's a comfortable mid table. Coaching can only get you so far, thats why Pep and Klopp will only work at top clubs - when they go to a villa or palace and win things, that's different.

[peterw]

The biggest disappointment given that we have Smith and Terry, is the apparent lack of organisation at the back. The midfield do not protect the back 4 and there are holes everywhere meaning runners get at us, and behind us, with alarming ease. When we went to 3 at the back we were ruthlessly picked off by sides aiming to attack the space on the left of the 3 - usually were Hause was. The biggest problem for us was not being able to replace Tuanzebe who i think would have been excellent for us )injuries permitted). also Engels complete loss of form and confidence. 

Going into the last 10 games we desperately need to address how we set up when we are defending. That comes from all 10 outfield players but when a team is running at us I am always fearful. 

[useless]

I don't think it really matters what people's expectations were on here with regards to whether Smith keeps his job or not, what matters is the expectation of those running the club, and given that Purslow explicitly stated in a clear and detailed manner, leaving no room for confusion or doubt, before the season started that we've noappetite to be a club that just makes up the numbers or to be involved in a relegation battle, then I'd say that gives you an indication as to what the expectations were, I think at the very least Smith has to keep us up.

It's not just about this season either, our owners have ambitions for us to be doing much better than we're currently doing, so will want Smith to show signs that he's the Head Coach that can help the club realize those ambitions. There's still more than a quarter of the season left to go for us though, so it's all still up in the air, depending on how we do in those final ten games the season once over could be a massive failure, or a success.

 

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, useless said:

I don't think it really matters what people's expectations were on here with regards to whether Smith keeps his job or not, what matters is the expectation of those running the club, and given that Purslow explicitly stated in a clear and detailed manner, leaving no room for confusion or doubt, before the season started that we've noappetite to be a club that just makes up the numbers or to be involved in a relegation battle, then I'd say that gives you an indication as to what the expectations were, I think at the very least Smith has to keep us up.

It's not just about this season either, our owners have ambitions for us to be doing much better than we're currently doing, so will want Smith to show signs that he's the Head Coach that can help the club realize those ambitions. There's still more than a quarter of the season left to go for us though, so it's all still up in the air, depending on how we do in those final ten games the season once over could be a massive failure, or a success.

 

Those running the club gave him a new 4 year deal back in November. 

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

This isn't Wigan Athletic. We have wealthy owners who have invested a lot of money.

With bigger clubs comes bigger expectations.

- I didn't expect us to be the worst defensive side in the league. Conceding on average 2 goals per game

- I didn't expect us getting outfought most weeks. Wilder keeps his players motivated and they bleed their hearts out every week. Why don't we? Why don't we put in more of a fight?

- I didn't expect us not being able to string together more than a couple of passes. This to me indicates there's a problem with the coaching.

If you honestly think he's done a good job this season so far i really don't know what to say to you.

That is all the validation I need. Thanks. 

[Delphinho123]

The truth lies somewhere in the middle tbh. I think he did a fantastic job last season but I do think we've slighlty underperformed this season.
The players we've signed didnt help. They've mostly been dross. 

[useless]

They might have given him a four year deal back in November but that doesn't mean to say that they weren't expecting better than what we've seen since then, in fact them giving him a new deal suggests the opposite. He was on the verge of losing his job before the season was postponed according to John Percy. I think whether people like it or not, he's got these last ten games to save his job, I think there's a good chance that he will do that, but if we're relegated and especially if we're relegated without a fight then I don't think there's any chance of him staying.

[Zatman]

Last season he overperformed by getting us promoted after mess he took over. 

This season we are roughly on the same level as we should be, we probably have 18rh/19th worst team in the league. 

Problem has been people think because of our history we are better than actually established PL teams like Watford, Palace and Bournemouth and we should be above them teams

Edited June 16, 2020 by Zatman

[LxYoungAVFC]

1 hour ago, peterw said:

The biggest disappointment given that we have Smith and Terry, is the apparent lack of organisation at the back. The midfield do not protect the back 4 and there are holes everywhere meaning runners get at us, and behind us, with alarming ease. When we went to 3 at the back we were ruthlessly picked off by sides aiming to attack the space on the left of the 3 - usually were Hause was. The biggest problem for us was not being able to replace Tuanzebe who i think would have been excellent for us )injuries permitted). also Engels complete loss of form and confidence. 

But it's not just the defence, is it? We look clueless going forward because we're not getting the basics right most of the time. It's all about getting the ball to Jack and hoping he does something magical with it. By December teams had figured this out and were taking Jack out of the game rather effectively. The way we play is too predictable and easy to counter.

Our midfield is a problem too. We start a different three each game. Do we play better with Douglas as a playmaker or Nakamba in the CDM role? Do we start Connor or not? Does Drinkwater get a look in? Do we play Jack centrally or on the left? It's shambolic.

Another point is the unwillingness to make changes and lack of proactiveness when a game plan isn't working. We often wait until after 60 minutes to make a sub or obvious change in strategy. We always end up being forced to react to the opposition's changes. It doesn't matter if we score first or concede, Villa is always the reacting team.

I don't see where the rumours about Smith's supposedly progressive football are coming from. It's wishful thinking.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by LxYoungAVFC