Dean Smith

[OxfordVillan]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Well, if you are right, they don't listen or don't have it in them, to date.....because the evidence from the home games I have watched has been to the contrary.

Nothing would please me more, to be wrong.....I hope i come on here tomorrow and sing their praises.....but I will only say what I see, good , bad or indifferent.

I never use one piece of criteria to form an opinion.....so no you are wrong there.

He said he is a performances man and that leads to results...In the main he is right, but its not the full conclusion.....There is more to winning than just performances, despite that being important......for me that just smacks of pretty football, we need to mix it and show a passion for winning the ball.....I really don't care if we win ugly tonight, I will be delighted with him, if thats what it takes.

Teams who win regularly are not as obsessed with the spectacle, I suspect Dean Is or has been.....tonight we will see if he has gleaned anything from watching the previous games, like he said he has done.

If they are insulted by such a statement, then prove me wrong.....I sincerely hope they do.....and if they come back with the bacon and have put up a scrap ( because they will need to against them) I will be delighted.

I couldn't give a fiddlers toss about being right, I am more than happy to be wrong.

Your final line is somewhat flawed....we won 10 games on the trot, which went a long way to getting us up, prior to that we won 2 games in 12.....so it was very inconsistent as a whole, it depends on which run you want to hang on to. I guess the fact that the good run came after the poor run would suggest improvement, granted.....but here we are struggling again. I don't think Dean has the Demeanor to instill a fighting spirit ( maybe he will say a few fighting words, but that is not the same, it needs to be in you.) and I don't think he puts enough store in to it as a result, but of course thats just my opinion. sometimes its just the way you are and I don't blame him for that.....I think the comments he made in the podcast, just confirm, my thoughts, no surprises for me.

ps your reference to a winning mentality is referred to by facts.....Deans win ratio is overall 36% in 477 games and 42% for us in 74 games, aided by promotion.....That is hardly stuff to write home about...I don't doubt he is a very nice guy, but I think your interpretation of his performance is wrong. I don't think he is a bad manager, by the way.....but some of the stuff he presides over like defending is bad.

 

 

 

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Posted 20 hours ago

   On 16/06/2020 at 09:49,  OxfordVillan said: 

Chris Wilder has been at Sheffield Utd since 2016, that team and their style of play has been built over 4 seasons, out of the spotlight. They won promotion from the championship at the 2nd attempt in Wilders 3rd season. 
Dean Smith has been at Villa since October 2018. He arrived at a club in turmoil, both on & off the pitch. A big club with big expectation in the country’s 2nd City. The team was underperforming and sat in 12th position in the league after what looked a favourable opening 11 fixtures. The teams star player, Jack Grealish, hadn’t performed well in the opening games and the team then lost him to injury for 3months. Many of the rest of the team were ageing, entering the final year of contracts, or on loan. That team went on to set a club record of successive wins, and win promotion via a playoff final. A huge summer rebuild of the squad had to take place, huge player turnover. And of those players very few had any Premier League experience at all, that was a policy left with Suso. That was the criteria. We currently sit in 19th position with a game in hand, 3pts from 16th position, been to a league cup final. 10 games left to play. And that’s having lost our No.1 Goalkeeper, our record signing player, and the fans player of the season from midfield. 

But you keep telling yourself how much better it should be, how we shouldn’t be struggling having signed no established Premier League outfield players, being the 5th best championship league team last season, and not having last seasons leading scorer to call upon. Or one half of the CB pairing that won promotion. You’re actually so dense that it beggars belief, you’re a clown. 

That line I have highlighted is a weak argument and miserably dismissive to Chris Wilder.

Its what he has done with that time, is the significant thing and moreover, its the path he has paved thats the key.....its what he has set out to do that is crucial.....He has a 52% win ratio with his team which is a very powerful statement....winning plenty of games in all 3 divisions.....his overall is 44.7% in nearly 900 games, the man is a winner......and it shows.

Look, he may hit the rocks along the way, they might stumble, but IMO he has gone about it in the right way......Sheff Utd have been an "also ran" club for years. The reason Chris Wilder has developed a team that is hard to beat, first and foremost and built on it,  because that is what he set out to do, He has applied the right format for success and I hope he does it, because he deserves it......The others before him have failed, because they didn't do the important things right.

many managers have spent time at clubs and done jack ****......and if you doubled that time, it would still be jack ****......time on its own gives you nothing, its what you do with that time, that counts.

 

Now then, TRO, the above are posts you have written/commented on. When it comes to Wilder, you champion his 44.7% win rate as evidence of a winner. When it comes to Dean Smith you say that his win ratio with Villa (42%) is, “hardly stuff to write home about”. So my question to you, TRO, is does Dean Smith need that extra 2% to become a winner?

[Tomaszk]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

• We obviously see the game differently and I don't subscribe to your list of excuses.

"Excuse" of having a load of players not up to standard is a fair reason for losing matches I think. It's one I picked up from you after I read it following every poor Bruce performance despite him having the best players in the league. Yet now you blame the manager saying he doesn't instill the right stuff, or play the way you want. If you and I went to play for Liverpool, I don't think Klopp could motivate us into being PL players.

We have bought players undeserving of their price tag. Dean is left the try and deal with the mess.

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

• I am not desperate to put anyone in with anything, there again, your interpretation running wild with you.....If I am being honest, in footballing terms I don't think I understand the "Dinosaur" reference, only that its is a poor shot at describing the type of football that a manager presides over and kind of antonym for pretty tika-taka football where kisses are blown at the end of a game and self distancing is practiced during play without the virus being present. I would suspect Ron Saunders would have been a Dinosaur in your eyes...Yes I guess if I was spoilt, it was watching his teams, develop.....and show no quarter to opposing teams.....it filled me with pride and a feeling that we are no pushover to anyone, yes even the best teams in Europe, where arguably we had no right to win, but that self belief and camaraderie and never say die attitude won mw over......yes,I guess thats when I got spoilt.

Ron wanted to participate in games didn't he? Wanted to win matches? Then he wasn't a dinosaur putting 11 players on the pitch to sit in their own box and hope they somehow won. 

Comparisons can't be made with football from 38 years ago, it was a different game. Wilder hasn't failed if he doesn't win the Champions League with Sheffield Utd has he? It's not that they aren't working hard enough. Quality of player dictates a lot, and football is more spread out than ever.

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

• I am not talking about what you want to watch, go to the Ballet, if you want a spectacle.....I am talking about winning football matches and moreover, doing the things that are likely to get those wins...I don't want to watch boring football either, but sometimes its necessary when you are building, I was expecting to see Bruce's Villa morph eventually in to a more attacking team, when he had the players.

I avoided watching us in the Championship playing with no formation or plan and would do again, no interest in that. Yes, perhaps I'll go to the ballet.

It's partly excusable if you're in the Premier League but I tell you now we wouldn't have 8,000 on the season ticket waiting list and sold out every home game.

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

• Dean Smith has to take some responsibility for the signings, if not, he should have been stronger in his voice to say, "I'm not having him"....but he just accepted them all.

Because of the previous regime we needed 12 signings.12. Ridiculous, farcial planning. He couldn't say no to too many or we wouldn't have had a squad, literally. Suso has stitched Aston Villa up very very badly. I'll be disappointed if he's not replaced.

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

• Sheff Utd Have been s*** for a lot longer than us, prior to Chris Wilder.....I have said before, you can wait forever, changing managers all the time along the way....it changes, when the manager and club do the crucial things right. We could change Dean Smith and get it wrong again, whats the point......I just want him to tighten us up, thay might mean signing the right players to do it.

When we appointed Di Matteo, Sheff U appointed Wilder. Wonder where we would be if we'd got him!

Perhaps we'd have a great team and a terrible owner instead of the other way round.

Here's to 10 grubby 1-0 wins to end the season.

[villalad21]

1 minute ago, Tomaszk said:

"Excuse" of having a load of players not up to standard is a fair reason for losing matches I think. It's one I picked up from you after I read it following every poor Bruce performance despite him having the best players in the league. Yet now you blame the manager saying he doesn't instill the right stuff, or play the way you want. If you and I went to play for Liverpool, I don't think Klopp could motivate us into being PL players.

We have bought players undeserving of their price tag. Dean is left the try and deal with the mess.

It's his job to coach and to improve them.

We have all seen they can be good enough and up to "standard" Norwich (A) Newcastle (H) Watford (H)

Partly of it is the players fault but Dean also have to take a big chunk of the blame for them not delivering consistently. 

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, OxfordVillan said:

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Posted 20 hours ago

   On 16/06/2020 at 09:49,  OxfordVillan said: 

Chris Wilder has been at Sheffield Utd since 2016, that team and their style of play has been built over 4 seasons, out of the spotlight. They won promotion from the championship at the 2nd attempt in Wilders 3rd season. 
Dean Smith has been at Villa since October 2018. He arrived at a club in turmoil, both on & off the pitch. A big club with big expectation in the country’s 2nd City. The team was underperforming and sat in 12th position in the league after what looked a favourable opening 11 fixtures. The teams star player, Jack Grealish, hadn’t performed well in the opening games and the team then lost him to injury for 3months. Many of the rest of the team were ageing, entering the final year of contracts, or on loan. That team went on to set a club record of successive wins, and win promotion via a playoff final. A huge summer rebuild of the squad had to take place, huge player turnover. And of those players very few had any Premier League experience at all, that was a policy left with Suso. That was the criteria. We currently sit in 19th position with a game in hand, 3pts from 16th position, been to a league cup final. 10 games left to play. And that’s having lost our No.1 Goalkeeper, our record signing player, and the fans player of the season from midfield. 

But you keep telling yourself how much better it should be, how we shouldn’t be struggling having signed no established Premier League outfield players, being the 5th best championship league team last season, and not having last seasons leading scorer to call upon. Or one half of the CB pairing that won promotion. You’re actually so dense that it beggars belief, you’re a clown. 

That line I have highlighted is a weak argument and miserably dismissive to Chris Wilder.

Its what he has done with that time, is the significant thing and moreover, its the path he has paved thats the key.....its what he has set out to do that is crucial.....He has a 52% win ratio with his team which is a very powerful statement....winning plenty of games in all 3 divisions.....his overall is 44.7% in nearly 900 games, the man is a winner......and it shows.

Look, he may hit the rocks along the way, they might stumble, but IMO he has gone about it in the right way......Sheff Utd have been an "also ran" club for years. The reason Chris Wilder has developed a team that is hard to beat, first and foremost and built on it,  because that is what he set out to do, He has applied the right format for success and I hope he does it, because he deserves it......The others before him have failed, because they didn't do the important things right.

many managers have spent time at clubs and done jack ****......and if you doubled that time, it would still be jack ****......time on its own gives you nothing, its what you do with that time, that counts.

 

Now then, TRO, the above are posts you have written/commented on. When it comes to Wilder, you champion his 44.7% win rate as evidence of a winner. When it comes to Dean Smith you say that his win ratio with Villa (42%) is, “hardly stuff to write home about”. So my question to you, TRO, is does Dean Smith need that extra 2% to become a winner?

rightly or wrongly, I was exhibiting all the angles.

you have mixed and matched the overall with the current teams....I was merely giving out information.....hey, 42% is not great, but not terrible either.

Current teams.....Dean 42%.....Chris 52%

Overall ...Dean 36%.....Chris 44.7%

In each category you are talking c 10% yes I think that is significant.....I was merely trying to create a broad church of opportunity....Hope I have explained it better.

Deans 42% is not a long way short of some of our previous better managers....but that also shows how consistently mediocre we have been and it also shows how you can be sucked in to thinking its ok.

If we are an ambitious club, we need to stop the lip service and mean it....and that means fans too.....I am not talking about demanding unrealisic expectation from anyone.....I am talking about things like, not accepting our appalling defensive record, without an inquest. Its not just one of those things like some try to portray, its unacceptable.

[USA_Villa]

Well done Villa. A fantastic tribute to Ron Smith. A single Stewards jacket in the Holte End. UTV

 

[TRO]

52 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

"Excuse" of having a load of players not up to standard is a fair reason for losing matches I think. It's one I picked up from you after I read it following every poor Bruce performance despite him having the best players in the league. Yet now you blame the manager saying he doesn't instill the right stuff, or play the way you want. If you and I went to play for Liverpool, I don't think Klopp could motivate us into being PL players.

We have bought players undeserving of their price tag. Dean is left the try and deal with the mess.

Ron wanted to participate in games didn't he? Wanted to win matches? Then he wasn't a dinosaur putting 11 players on the pitch to sit in their own box and hope they somehow won. 

Comparisons can't be made with football from 38 years ago, it was a different game. Wilder hasn't failed if he doesn't win the Champions League with Sheffield Utd has he? It's not that they aren't working hard enough. Quality of player dictates a lot, and football is more spread out than ever.

I avoided watching us in the Championship playing with no formation or plan and would do again, no interest in that. Yes, perhaps I'll go to the ballet.

It's partly excusable if you're in the Premier League but I tell you now we wouldn't have 8,000 on the season ticket waiting list and sold out every home game.

Because of the previous regime we needed 12 signings.12. Ridiculous, farcial planning. He couldn't say no to too many or we wouldn't have had a squad, literally. Suso has stitched Aston Villa up very very badly. I'll be disappointed if he's not replaced.

When we appointed Di Matteo, Sheff U appointed Wilder. Wonder where we would be if we'd got him!

Perhaps we'd have a great team and a terrible owner instead of the other way round.

Here's to 10 grubby 1-0 wins to end the season.

would take that all day long.....then we can work on the pretty stuff later.

Edited June 17, 2020 by TRO

[Robbie09]

26 minutes ago, USA_Villa said:

Well done Villa. A fantastic tribute to Ron Smith. A single Stewards jacket in the Holte End. UTV

 

Which just happens to be placed on my seat - lucky omen I hope !

[Sid4ever]

37 minutes ago, Robbie09 said:

Which just happens to be placed on my seat - lucky omen I hope !

Looks like you are 10 seats away from me then.

[Robbie09]

114 or 134?

[Lerner's Driver]

On 16/06/2020 at 09:12, Delphinho123 said:

The truth lies somewhere in the middle tbh. I think he did a fantastic job last season but I do think we've slighlty underperformed this season.
The players we've signed didnt help. They've mostly been dross. 

Which was always a risk when you had to sign so many in a short space of time. End of circular debate.

[Villarocker]

2 hours ago, Robbie09 said:

Which just happens to be placed on my seat - lucky omen I hope !

So now we all know where to find you

[rodders0223]

Brand new tactics never seen before. Have Mings lump it into channels and nobody pass the ball to each other in the final third.

[Villarocker]

Considering he's watched all the games back it doesn't seem like anything has changed. Either don't know what they're doing or the players simply aren't good enough. 

[KentVillan]

Tough for out of his depth Dean Smith today against world class genius Chris Wilder

[rodders0223]

1 minute ago, KentVillan said:

Tough for out of his depth Dean Smith today against world class genius Chris Wilder

A Chris Wilder that seemed very very happy for his players to stroll through the game and not get injured ...and we still created nothing.

[Dave-R]

8 minutes ago, Villarocker said:

Considering he's watched all the games back it doesn't seem like anything has changed. Either don't know what they're doing or the players simply aren't good enough. 

Both you can put a bet on.

Tick Tock Mr Smith..

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Dave-R

[villalad21]

Great point.

We looked very good defensively. Something to build from.

More of this Dean

Edited June 17, 2020 by villalad21

[KentVillan]

2 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

A Chris Wilder that seemed very very happy for his players to stroll through the game and not get injured ...and we still created nothing.

Have you looked at the Premier League table? And did you watch the game?

[rodders0223]

1 minute ago, KentVillan said:

Have you looked at the Premier League table? And did you watch the game?

Yes. Yes. They have a chance of Europe but a sheffield 3 months ago do not let is dictate the game like that. They do not sit in like that. Let's not pretend we dominated a fully motivated Sheff U side because we didn't.

They had the luxury of treating it like a friendly. We didn't.

We had to win.

[MrBlack]

Good result. Draw was fair despite the fact they had a definite goal and we should have had a penalty.

Not a great performance but to be expected in the circumstances. Whatever formation Dean was trying to achieve,  its not going to create much in the way of goals with Davis as a lone striker and Grealish effectively a wing back. Maybe just going defensive with the opposition in mind