useless Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Players getting injured is part of football, losing four of your best players at the same time isn't part of football, that's just very bad luck, the kind of bad luck that very rarely happens, and not something that everyone has to cope with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Well I don't rate Wes, at all. But at least the timing was bad as he looked OK against Burnley and has just broken his 13 game streak with no goals or assists. 13 games in which he played almost every minute. It certainly didn't help us that he got injured but we did OK in the 3 games we played without a striker when he got injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, useless said: Players getting injured is part of football, losing four of your best players at the same time isn't part of football, that's just very bad luck, the kind of bad luck that very rarely happens, and not something that everyone has to cope with. Oh really? You've been keeping track of the rest of the clubs injury record? Do you have something to compare it to? Pretty sure Norwich had 9 players injured during Christmas and you are complaining? Edited June 9, 2020 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, sne said: It certainly didn't help us that he got injured but we did OK in the 3 games we played without a striker when he got injured. I think it did help us. Wesley was a liability. Samatta is 10 times the player. With Keinan back Wesley wouldn't even make my bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Well name me another club that has had four of their best players injured for a lengthy period of time and their form hasn't suffered as a consequence, you mention Norwich but that rather makes my point for me, being as though they're bottom of the table, besides their injury crisis was exaggerated their equivalent to losing Heaton, McGinn, Wesley and Davis, would be losing Krul, Buendia, Pukki and whoever their equivalent of Davis is, if they'd have lost anything like four of their best players for an extended period of time they'd be pretty much mathematically relegated by now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, useless said: Well name me another club that has had four of their best players injured for a lengthy period of time and their form hasn't suffered as a consequence, you mention Norwich but that rather makes my point for me, being as though they're bottom of the table, besides their injury crisis was exaggerated their equivalent to losing Heaton, McGinn, Wesley and Davis, would be losing Krul, Buendia, Pukki and whoever their equivalent of Davis is, if they'd have lost anything like four of their best players for an extended period of time they'd be pretty much mathematically relegated by now. They had 9 players injured, that isn't normal. Having 3-4 first team players out injured isn't out of the ordinary. Wesley have been replaced regardless by a better player. Heaton we have got cover for. McGinn although he is an important player we got cover for. Who is this fourth player that is so important? Davis? He isn't a starter anyways. So with the replacement we've acquired you are looking at 2 players really who we need back. That isn't out of the ordinary. Even so you aren't bringing up any other teams injury record to compare it to. You are just assuming we've been hit harder than others without bringing up anything to compare it to. We've got good enough players to at least turn up for every game and show effort and desire. Dean isn't getting the best out of his players that is the problem. https://www.premierinjuries.com/injury-table.php Looking at the injury table we look pretty well off compared to some other teams. So at least now with McGinn back there are no excuses left? Edited June 9, 2020 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Norwich are bottom of the table so not sure why you're using them as an example as to why injuries aren't an excuse, their example proves that injuries do in fact make a difference, and their injury situation isn't even as bad ours because obviously it's not about the number of players injured but the quality of the player injured and also the length of time that the injured players are out for. Also just saying that we've got cover for players doesnt work, we haven't got anyone near as good as McGinn as backup, or Heaton, if Man CIty or Liverpool were to lose four best players their form would be affected and they have much stronger back up options than we do. It doesn't matter what you write it doesn't take away from the fact that losing four of your best players is going to have a massive impact, even if you don't rate Wesley he was still our leading goalscorer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, useless said: Norwich are bottom of the table so not sure why you're using them as an example as to why injuries aren't an excuse, their example proves that injuries do in fact make a difference, and their injury situation isn't even as bad ours because obviously it's not about the number of players injured but the quality of the player injured and also the length of time that the injured players are out for. Also just saying that we've got cover for players doesnt work, we haven't got anyone near as good as McGinn as backup, or Heaton, if Man CIty or Liverpool were to lose four best players their form would be affected and they have much stronger back up options than we do. It doesn't matter what you write it doesn't take away from the fact that losing four of your best players is going to have a massive impact, even if you don't rate Wesley he was still our leading goalscorer But we haven't lost 4 of our best players. Samatta is better than Wesley. Samatta is better than Davis. McGinn and Heaton is a big loss, but McGinn is back now. There is no carpet to hide under. We have to perform, no excuses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, villalad21 said: But we haven't lost 4 of our best players. Samatta is better than Wesley. Samatta is better than Davis. McGinn and Heaton is a big loss, but McGinn is back now. There is no carpet to hide under. We have to perform, no excuses. I think people need to wait a lot longer to start making these kinds of statements about Samatta. I hope you're right that he's better than those two but he's not played many games, and a few of those we as a team have been dominated and he hasn't had a chance to do much. Btw, it is possible for you to admit that injuries make a difference and still be against Smith. Nobody would begrudge that. There are shades of grey in the world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 I said four of our best and most important, Wesley as our top goal scorer was one of our most important players, I hate to break it to people but we're just not good enough that we can afford to just dismiss such a loss as being inconsequential, McGinn might be back now but that doesn't take away from the fact that he missed a big chunk of the season and that will have had a detrimental affect on our ability to perform in that periiod and as a consequence we won't have taken as many points as we might have done if he'd have been fit. But yes for the remainder of the season we just have to get on with it, and it's good to have McGinn and Davis back, as well as having Samatta as a decent alternative to Wesley, shame about the goalkeeping situation, but hopefully Reina get regain some form, if so he should be a good replacement for Heaton. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 On 09/06/2020 at 12:39, useless said: I said four of our best and most important, Wesley as our top goal scorer was one of our most important players, I hate to break it to people but we're just not good enough that we can afford to just dismiss such a loss as being inconsequential, McGinn might be back now but that doesn't take away from the fact that he missed a big chunk of the season and that will have had a detrimental affect on our ability to perform in that periiod and as a consequence we won't have taken as many points as we might have done if he'd have been fit. But yes for the remainder of the season we just have to get on with it, and it's good to have McGinn and Davis back, as well as having Samatta as a decent alternative to Wesley, shame about the goalkeeping situation, but hopefully Reina get regain some form, if so he should be a good replacement for Heaton. Just as a matter of interest.....who do you think contributes to the claim " we are just not good enough"?.....who are these players? I agree by the way, just interested in who you think they are with the others being claimed amongst our best.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Sorry I don't understand that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 On 09/06/2020 at 12:29, villalad21 said: But we haven't lost 4 of our best players. Samatta is better than Wesley. Samatta is better than Davis. McGinn and Heaton is a big loss, but McGinn is back now. There is no carpet to hide under. We have to perform, no excuses. Is there a lino ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) We were o.k with injuries up to November. If you look at McGinn, Grealish and Mings as our best three outfield players then I think they all played in all our league games up to Liverpool (Wesley too if he's part of this debate). Yet were still only in 16th. Should've made more hay in the early part of the season which is usually when a promoted team can really carry on the momentum of the previous year (can remember Huddersfield having a brilliant start to the season after being promoted and obviously Sheffield United). We wasted too many points in the early part, leading v Spurs, Arsenal, Burnley (twice) and only taking one point from that. Also not beating 10 men West Ham. That's before you even mention Bournemouth. That all caught up with us in December. Inevitably injuries with the schedule (McGinn was just wating to happen considering he didn't look right in the weeks leading up to the Southampton game) and the standard of our performances really declined. I thought we were slowly turning things round during January but the 90 minute winners v Watford and Leicester were as usual a massive false dawn. Edited June 11, 2020 by VillaChris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 On 11/06/2020 at 16:38, useless said: Sorry I don't understand that question. "You say we are just not good enough"......I am not arguing with that. However, which players do you think are culpable to "not being good enough", and in light of you declaring, who our best players are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 19 hours ago, sheepyvillian said: Is there a lino ? Sadly, only oilcloth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 I said that we're just not good enough that we can afford to just dismiss the loss of our leading scorer as inconsequential, this was said in response to the idea that losing Wesley to injury wasn't a loss. And I'd say we're not good enough as a team to be blasé about losing our leading scorer, but you could say that about most teams in the division so it wasn't meant as a criticism of the other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, useless said: I said that we're just not good enough that we can afford to just dismiss the loss of our leading scorer as inconsequential, this was said in response to the idea that losing Wesley to injury wasn't a loss. And I'd say we're not good enough as a team to be blasé about losing our leading scorer, but you could say that about most teams in the division so it wasn't meant as a criticism of the other players. Not taking it as a criticism, more interested in your observation. So I ask again....who in your opinion are the players contributing to us being "not good enough"....our leading scorer is quite modest in terms of goals return, by the way.....just interested in the players you think that struggle with out them. We are 19th With a team inc Jack Grealish, and Tyrone Mings......missing Heaton, McGinn and Wesley has undoutedly been a set back, but teams do cope without some of their best players......who do you think, struggle, without our best players? its not a trick question. Edited June 12, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 You're taking "not good enough" out of context, again I said we're not good enough that we can just dismiss the loss of our leading goalscorer, as is the case for most teams in the league, if not all of them to varying degrees. Any team will miss the player that has scored more goals then anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 25 minutes ago, useless said: You're taking "not good enough" out of context, again I said we're not good enough that we can just dismiss the loss of our leading goalscorer, as is the case for most teams in the league, if not all of them to varying degrees. Any team will miss the player that has scored more goals then anyone else. Are you a politician?.....I take that as you actually think we are good enough, otherwise you would have said who are the ones not good enough to cope, without our best players. If we are not good enough to cope with out our best players, by deduction, there must be players not good enough to cope without them. ah well, so much for context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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