Dean Smith

[nick76]

23 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

I've heard some rumours that McGinn might not start this one, that is ridiculous, the guy has had 3 months off and another 3 months to get his fitness back. Not playing for so long doesn't matter as all the other players are in the same boat. So McGinn has to start, preferably with Grealish in the middle. 

Do you really think Smith wouldnt play McGinn as much as he could?  Smith would be dying for McGinn to be playing from the start, for the full 90 mins and for every game but that will be down to if he can.  The worst thing we want to do is over stretch and lose him after 70 mins of the game and out for the rest of the season if that is a possibility.  I really want McGinn to play every second but I will understand they are taking precautions because how many times have players come back and got a second injury quickly and are out again.   Yes we arent rushing him back because we've had time but still.  So thanks for the arm chair medical/physio diagnosis but I'll leave it to the experts thanks....

[VillaFaninLondon]

20 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Do you really think Smith wouldnt play McGinn as much as he could?  Smith would be dying for McGinn to be playing from the start, for the full 90 mins and for every game but that will be down to if he can.  The worst thing we want to do is over stretch and lose him after 70 mins of the game and out for the rest of the season if that is a possibility.  I really want McGinn to play every second but I will understand they are taking precautions because how many times have players come back and got a second injury quickly and are out again.   Yes we arent rushing him back because we've had time but still.  So thanks for the arm chair medical/physio diagnosis but I'll leave it to the experts thanks....

Maybe rethink your sentence in bold, tends to agree with what I said in the first place.

 

Of course I don't want to lose him. What I'm saying is I can't understand how we haven't been able to get him up to speed by now, Son broke his arm (ironically against us and played on) and he's been over in Korea doing his national service since then. It's obviously up to the experts to see if he can play or not, I respect that, what I'm saying is we've had three months to get him to the same level of fitness as everyone else and the ankle should by now have healed 100%. It's not about match fitness, it's about general fitness right now because everyone in the squad will not be match fit. I can understand it being a risk if it was back in March and he needed some weeks to get up to speed, but we are well past that now.

Edited June 17, 2020 by VillaFaninLondon

[nick76]

5 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

Maybe rethink your sentence in bold, tends to agree with what I said in the first place.

 

Of course I don't want to lose him. What I'm saying is I can't understand how we haven't been able to get him up to speed by now, Son broke his arm (ironically against us and played on) and he's been over in Korea doing his national service since then. It's obviously up to the experts to see if he can play or not, I respect that, what I'm saying is we've had three months to get him to the same level of fitness as everyone else and the ankle should by now have healed 100%. It's not about match fitness, it's about general fitness right now because everyone in the squad will not be match fit. I can understand it being a risk if it was back in March and he needed some weeks to get up to speed, but we are well past that now.

but if the rumours are true that he may not start then maybe there is more too it.  I've done my ankle three times in my career playing football at the lofty heights of sunday afternoon football and yes he gets the best medical treatment/physio and stuff but I know myself when I have got back fit, there is a difference between playing fit and then full on Sunday blow by blow tackling.  For me, I could play football again after 2 to 3 months but there was lingering doubt/uncomfortableness and whatever for a long long time after that and I was a battler at football and not a princess so it wasnt my attitude.  Yes they are at a different level.

Anyway less about my stellar career  if the rumours are true, then their maybe more to it.  I guess we'll find out or it could just be tactical mind games with Wilder. 

[VillaFaninLondon]

6 minutes ago, nick76 said:

but if the rumours are true that he may not start then maybe there is more too it.  I've done my ankle three times in my career playing football at the lofty heights of sunday afternoon football and yes he gets the best medical treatment/physio and stuff but I know myself when I have got back fit, there is a difference between playing fit and then full on Sunday blow by blow tackling.  For me, I could play football again after 2 to 3 months but there was lingering doubt/uncomfortableness and whatever for a long long time after that and I was a battler at football and not a princess so it wasnt my attitude.  Yes they are at a different level.

Anyway less about my stellar career  if the rumours are true, then their maybe more to it.  I guess we'll find out or it could just be tactical mind games with Wilder. 

Fair enough. I've never really done more than twist my ankle playing football, so your judgement is better than mine, but you look at players like Son (as mentioned), Andre Gomes, Kane have all had bad injuries and are available, Pogba missed a lot more football than McGinn this season but is set to start in their first game. I guess I'm just really desperate for McGinn to be available because of how key he is to our team, so hopefully it's tactical mind games as you suggest.

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

Fair enough. I've never really done more than twist my ankle playing football, so your judgement is better than mine, but you look at players like Son (as mentioned), Andre Gomes, Kane have all had bad injuries and are available, Pogba missed a lot more football than McGinn this season but is set to start in their first game. I guess I'm just really desperate for McGinn to be available because of how key he is to our team, so hopefully it's tactical mind games as you suggest.

I honestly dont know just going on my experience, which is a poor comparison to McGinn obviously.  I, like you, desperately want McGinn back but I am worried about the rumours and also the expectation that is being put on his shoulders.  Everybody is expecting the 110% McGinn and I think we probably get something close but I do worry the expectation that is being placed on his return.  Although anything can be better than some of our current midfielders.

[TRO]

15 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

It's ridiculous to suggest the manager is not instilling a fighting mentality in his players. 

You have interpreted this results and performance comment to suggest winning is not his main priority. He's in a business where winning is the only way you can keep your job . You honestly believe he won't have those players fired up for tomorrow's encounter ? As for them not feeling the importance of the occasion or lacking the necessary focus , I  think the players and manager would be insulted by such a statement. 

You don't win promotion without a winning mentality, I believe the team still possesses that winning mentality and the manager will have drummed into the players that their more than capable of achieving their aim of avoiding the drop. They know what's at stake, let's hope they have the confidence and belief to prove the many doubters wrong.

Well, if you are right, they don't listen or don't have it in them, to date.....because the evidence from the home games I have watched has been to the contrary.

Nothing would please me more, to be wrong.....I hope i come on here tomorrow and sing their praises.....but I will only say what I see, good , bad or indifferent.

I never use one piece of criteria to form an opinion.....so no you are wrong there.

He said he is a performances man and that leads to results...In the main he is right, but its not the full conclusion.....There is more to winning than just performances, despite that being important......for me that just smacks of pretty football, we need to mix it and show a passion for winning the ball.....I really don't care if we win ugly tonight, I will be delighted with him, if thats what it takes.

Teams who win regularly are not as obsessed with the spectacle, I suspect Dean Is or has been.....tonight we will see if he has gleaned anything from watching the previous games, like he said he has done.

If they are insulted by such a statement, then prove me wrong.....I sincerely hope they do.....and if they come back with the bacon and have put up a scrap ( because they will need to against them) I will be delighted.

I couldn't give a fiddlers toss about being right, I am more than happy to be wrong.

Your final line is somewhat flawed....we won 10 games on the trot, which went a long way to getting us up, prior to that we won 2 games in 12.....so it was very inconsistent as a whole, it depends on which run you want to hang on to. I guess the fact that the good run came after the poor run would suggest improvement, granted.....but here we are struggling again. I don't think Dean has the Demeanor to instill a fighting spirit ( maybe he will say a few fighting words, but that is not the same, it needs to be in you.) and I don't think he puts enough store in to it as a result, but of course thats just my opinion. sometimes its just the way you are and I don't blame him for that.....I think the comments he made in the podcast, just confirm, my thoughts, no surprises for me.

ps your reference to a winning mentality is referred to by facts.....Deans win ratio is overall 36% in 477 games and 42% for us in 74 games, aided by promotion.....That is hardly stuff to write home about...I don't doubt he is a very nice guy, but I think your interpretation of his performance is wrong. I don't think he is a bad manager, by the way.....but some of the stuff he presides over like defending is bad.

 

 

 

[MotoMkali]

40 minutes ago, nick76 said:

but if the rumours are true that he may not start then maybe there is more too it.  I've done my ankle three times in my career playing football at the lofty heights of sunday afternoon football and yes he gets the best medical treatment/physio and stuff but I know myself when I have got back fit, there is a difference between playing fit and then full on Sunday blow by blow tackling.  For me, I could play football again after 2 to 3 months but there was lingering doubt/uncomfortableness and whatever for a long long time after that and I was a battler at football and not a princess so it wasnt my attitude.  Yes they are at a different level.

Anyway less about my stellar career  if the rumours are true, then their maybe more to it.  I guess we'll find out or it could just be tactical mind games with Wilder. 

McGinn was ready to start our next game before the season got suspended. He has had an extra 3 months to recover. He will be fine. 

[nick76]

3 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

McGinn was ready to start our next game before the season got suspended. He has had an extra 3 months to recover. He will be fine. 

[sne]

5 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

McGinn was ready to start our next game before the season got suspended. He has had an extra 3 months to recover. He will be fine. 

Not sure that is correct is it?

 

[MotoMkali]

Just now, sne said:

Not sure that is correct is it?

 

That is what they were claiming. Said he was almost ready for the city game but not quite. And 3 months from Christmas is March so he should have been there or there abouts. 

[Zhan_Zhuang]

McGinn as an impact sub last thirty minutes does also make alot of sense considering he's been out for so long.

Worried though if Nakamba is out that we have no steel in the middle!

[useless]

McGinn being ready for the Chelsea game before it was postponed doesn't mean that he will be ready now, back then he will have been in training every day without restrictions, since then he's had months out and won't have been able to train to the same extent so will have lost momentum; that will be the same for all our players but most of them aren't coming back after a long term injury. Or to say it in less words, McGinn might not be as ready now as he was before the Chelse game owing to him having lost momentum in his return to fitness.

We just have to remember that if he can come back and make the difference in one game then that could make all the difference, if he'd have stay fit and made the difference in one of our previous games we wouldn't be in the relegation zone now. Hopefully combination of that and the other players taking stock of the situation and Smith having time work things out, will work in our favour, Davis should help as well, similar to McGinn, if he can help us to win or draw a game that we might other wise have lost then that alone could go along way.

[fightoffyour]

14 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Tomorrow there will either be a s**t storm in here or a bunch of people telling me how wrong and idiotic I am.

You don’t have to wait until after the match for that

[TRO]

14 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Hmm.

After his first two seasons at Liverpool Klopp finished 8th and snuck 4th last day in the second season.

I reckon you'd have been at his throat if you were a Liverpool fan. "RODGERS GOT US SECOND! THE TEAM AREN'T TRYING"

I know you're desperate to put Wilder in with the dinosaurs, but he's so so different. Lightyears away from the likes of Pulis and Bruce.

The villa manager doesn't want the team to try hard? What on earth are you talking about?

Has he said he's not a results man? Haven't seen that but I can understand if he said he preferred performance. I do as well to be honest.

Would I want to pay to watch Pulis football? No. Would I enjoy supporting a team like Burnley smashing the ball into the air every time they get it and finishing 6th-16th every year? No. I get no enjoyment out of that.

Perhaps you would, and that's OK. Doesn't appeal to me to be honest.

If Smith had some decent players we'd probably have been a lot better this season. With what he's got he's done fairly well despite mistakes. And I say that someone who would probably replace him if we stay up. Don't understand your relentless battering of him.

You were spoilt by promotion and it made you forget how far we've come in such a short space of time. We've been shit for about 8 years and in that time the Premier League has become 10x tougher.

• We obviously see the game differently and I don't subscribe to your list of excuses.
• I never said he doesn't want them to try hard, thats in your mind, thats YOUR interpretation of my comments and thus arguing with yourself.....I am saying he can't get them to show the combative spirit to make it difficult for the opposition,( in most games) we are too open and beneovolent....WHY? could be any number of things I have just been speculating like most posters do, as to what it might be.
• I am not desperate to put anyone in with anything, there again, your interpretation running wild with you.....If I am being honest, in footballing terms I don't think I understand the "Dinosaur" reference, only that its is a poor shot at describing the type of football that a manager presides over and kind of antonym for pretty tika-taka football where kisses are blown at the end of a game and self distancing is practiced during play without the virus being present. I would suspect Ron Saunders would have been a Dinosaur in your eyes...Yes I guess if I was spoilt, it was watching his teams, develop.....and show no quarter to opposing teams.....it filled me with pride and a feeling that we are no pushover to anyone, yes even the best teams in Europe, where arguably we had no right to win, but that self belief and camaraderie and never say die attitude won me over......yes,I guess thats when I got spoilt.
• back to sanity.....I want attractive football just like you, but I realise you have earn the right to play it....opposing teams with nous don't just hand possession on a plate like we do, when we give the ball away , like gifts at a wedding.
• I am not talking about what you want to watch, go to the Ballet, if you want a spectacle.....I am talking about winning football matches and moreover, doing the things that are likely to get those wins...I don't want to watch boring football either, but sometimes its necessary when you are building, I was expecting to see Bruce's Villa morph eventually in to a more attacking team, when he had the players....but not so.
• I wasn't spoilt by promotion and I was very pleased, with the 10 game history breaking run, I actually thought it was a great feat in getting us up....but our ability still, despite the tremendous run, during the season was to concede too easily....61 goals against compared with Leeds 50 and Sheff Utd's 41....is it no surprise that Sheff Utd was better Prepared for the top league and nothing has changed in that respect, they were geared for it....prepared to stop teams and not try to play through world class talent, they wait their moment and strike and 1-0 is as good as 7-0 you still only get 3 points....and that is the mindset they have.
• Dean Smith has to take some responsibity for the signings, if not, he should have been stronger in his voice to say, "I'm not having him"....but he just accepted them all.
• Sheff Utd Have been s*** for a lot longer than us, prior to Chris Wilder.....I have said before, you can wait forever, changing managers all the time along the way....it changes, when the manager and club do the crucial things right. We could change Dean Smith and get it wrong again, whats the point......I just want him to tighten us up, thay might mean signing the right players to do it.
• I think your last line is defeatist, its accepting the staus quo too easily.....Chris Wilder would laugh at that call and his team are just defying the notion.......We too can defy it, if we approach things correctly.

Its clear, we don't see things the same, and I guess, not worth really trying, but hey, its all about opinions.

UTV

Edited June 17, 2020 by TRO

[MrBlack]

7 minutes ago, useless said:

McGinn being ready for the Chelsea game before it was postponed doesn't mean that he will be ready now, back then he will have been in training every day without restrictions, since then he's had months out and won't have been able to train to the same extent so will have lost momentum; that will be the same for all our players but most of them aren't coming back after a long term injury. Or to say it in less words, McGinn might not be as ready now as he was before the Chelse game owing to him having lost momentum in his return to fitness.

We just have to remember that if he can come back and make the difference in one game then that could make all the difference, if he'd have stay fit and made the difference in one of our previous games we wouldn't be in the relegation zone now. Hopefully combination of that and the other players taking stock of the situation and Smith having time work things out, will work in our favour, Davis should help as well, similar to McGinn, if he can help us to win or draw a game that we might other wise have lost then that alone could go along way.

McGinn, and indeed any footballer, should have been able to train and maintain a level of fitness that allows them to reach match fitness when things restart. The fact the Premier league chose to restart before any player can get match fit is a burden to all players, not just McGinn.

I don't buy that he'd be in a worse position now than before the Chelsea game at all. Unless he had a recurrence of the injury or some issue directly related to covid-19, he should have been in a better position injury wise when we re-started training, and now be as up to speed as any other player in the team. 

[TRO]

33 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

McGinn, and indeed any footballer, should have been able to train and maintain a level of fitness that allows them to reach match fitness when things restart. The fact the Premier league chose to restart before any player can get match fit is a burden to all players, not just McGinn.

I don't buy that he'd be in a worse position now than before the Chelsea game at all. Unless he had a recurrence of the injury or some issue directly related to covid-19, he should have been in a better position injury wise when we re-started training, and now be as up to speed as any other player in the team. 

as you quite rightly say......nobody is match fit.

[useless]

None of the players will be as fit or match ready as they were before the season was postponed so all of them will be less ready now than they are now fitness wise, for a player that was already injured it will be worse for them, McGinn hasn't played in six monhs, which is why Smith has said that he's got to ease him back.

[villalad21]

9 minutes ago, useless said:

None of the players will be as fit or match ready as they were before the season was postponed so all of them will be less ready now than they are now fitness wise, for a player that was already injured it will be worse for them, McGinn hasn't played in six monhs, which is why Smith has said that he's got to ease him back.

Good point.

Nobody is match fit, so what's the problem starting with McGinn?

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Good point.

Nobody is match fit, so what's the problem starting with McGinn?

maybe he feels it will be too intense on his ankle...it may feel a less intense game, migh be better to introduce him.

just guessing.

[VillaChris]

All players will be flagging tonight from 70th minute mark so can see a late goal or two (remember the fixture last season aswell). Was loads of late goals in the first rounds of Bundesliga.

Really interested how DS uses his five subs tonight. People claiming we have no options but we have a player who scored a winner that sent us to Wembley come on as sub in that game (Trez), I'd personally bench El Ghazi aswell so he'd be another option and seems one of McGinn/Luiz will be on bench. Then in the unlikely even we're winning with ten minutes left you obviously bring on a defender or two to see things out.

Will be despairing if DS sits on his hands up to 75th minute especially if we can't get out of our 18 yard box at that point but I can't imagine that's going to happen.