KenjiOgiwara Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Ironically I think we've signed players with the right mentality, but with insufficient quality. Trez and Wes being the prime examples. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 2 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Ironically I think we've signed players with the right mentality, but with insufficient quality. Trez and Wes being the prime examples. Harsh on Trez. He is inconsistent but he isn't a bad player like Wes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted February 10, 2020 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted February 10, 2020 I find it amazing that after years of people moaning about Bruce being too defensive, we now have a manager who isn't as defensive, has got us promoted, got us into a cup final and is on track to keep us in the premier league; and people are complaining that we should be more defensive. 18 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 27 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I find it amazing that after years of people moaning about Bruce being too defensive, we now have a manager who isn't as defensive, has got us promoted, got us into a cup final and is on track to keep us in the premier league; and people are complaining that we should be more defensive. I don't find it amazing at all Stevo - more grimly predictable. I've seen all sorts of comments over the years and many contradictory ones. A good way to spot a nonsense one is if it structured approximately like this: 'As long as we X, then I don't care/mind'. Oh they will mind. X, this season, seemed to be 'stay up'. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 4 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I find it amazing that after years of people moaning about Bruce being too defensive, we now have a manager who isn't as defensive, has got us promoted, got us into a cup final and is on track to keep us in the premier league; and people are complaining that we should be more defensive. You surely aren't amazed. There's always (at least) one on here that bangs on endlessly about the manager being hopeless for x or y reason, until eventually they are right, like a stopped clock. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 We shouldn't be more defensive, but we should be more organised. Whether that is caused through training, quality on the pitch or lack of experience in the defensive areas, we have given away goals so so freely it is criminal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 20 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: We shouldn't be more defensive, but we should be more organised. Whether that is caused through training, quality on the pitch or lack of experience in the defensive areas, we have given away goals so so freely it is criminal. I think that's largely due to the first 11 being rather new to each other. Was watching Sheffield United this weekend and while they obviously have signed new players as well, they are very drilled in their roles and it looks like they know each others movement to a tee. And a large part of this in my mind is having the same manager and squad over several years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bobzy Posted February 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 10, 2020 23 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: We shouldn't be more defensive, but we should be more organised. Whether that is caused through training, quality on the pitch or lack of experience in the defensive areas, we have given away goals so so freely it is criminal. That's pretty much what the defensive switch is doing for us. We lost 3-0 against Watford, then changed our setup for the game against Burnley. Since then, we've only conceded more than 2 goals a game once (6-1 Man City) having played against City, Leicester twice and the very same Watford side that beat us 3-0. We're not a million miles away IMO. We're just inconsistent... basically, like every other team that's down there. Bournemouth was awful, the win against Watford was good. We've got some huge games coming up and it'll be a battle right down to the end of the season, but I don't feel like we're doomed. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I find it amazing that after years of people moaning about Bruce being too defensive, we now have a manager who isn't as defensive, has got us promoted, got us into a cup final and is on track to keep us in the premier league; and people are complaining that we should be more defensive. This post isn't a stab at Steve Bruce as a manager, and @Stevo985 I'm not entirely sure why I've quoted your post for the following drivel, as it's more directed at Smith doubters. Newcastle under Bruce have scored the second fewest goals of any team in the division, yet they sit two wins from European placing two thirds of the way through a season. Bruce has won half of his games through 1-0 victories already, and believe it or not I think 18 of his wins in a season that saw promotion from the championship, were 1-0 wins. Pretty confident both Hull promotions saw a similar number of 1-0 victories. It's his thing. Anyway, back to the loose reason I quote you and mention Bruce, they are two wins from European placing, two-thirds of the season gone. Do you know what separates us from them? Two wins. Not much, hey (possibly why it's considered a competition)? Two whole wins, which is something Bruce only delivers through scoring a single goal, half the time. Yet we are top half in terms of goals scored, two thirds of the way through a season. We've scored against every team in European placing (pretty damn sure). Don't worry I'm not going to regurgitate all the reasons why it's been such a difficult challenge for our club to reintegrate and acquaint itself with the division in which we want to call home, but it has been that, a real uphill battle. Once upon a time reminiscing about the glory days of yesteryear this club has enjoyed won't bring us off our knees as a club. There's a saying which I find some value in at times and it goes, "If you aren't bringing anything to the table, don't expect a seat". What has Villa offered the PL in recent years? It's getting late here so I don't want to rabble on much longer, but I think it's fair to say an obvious but true formula for success in football is a process of enhancing your assets whilst decreasing the exposure of your liabilities, regardless of the system you employ. if you consider the style and approach that Smith is aiming for, and developing within this young and inexperienced team, and within the time-frames he's done it in, you can see he really does intend on playing a brand of football with enough quality on the ball, to take the game to any team, at any time. This can be highlighted by our Cup Final achievement, or the previously mentioned record of scoring against every European placed team, as well as the traditional "big six". But it also highlights the difficulty behind such ambitions and the liabilities that come with introducing a playing style among a side in it's youthful years and infancy of experiences at top flight level. I'm going to wrap it up here, Brendan Rodgers who has Leicester in third played right now, played with a similar ambition and emphasis of having quality on the ball during his Swansea years, as did Roberto Martinez, who now manages Belgium, and is trusted with the likes of De Bruyne, Hazard and the rest. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 30 minutes ago, A'Villan said: This post isn't a stab at Steve Bruce as a manager, and @Stevo985 I'm not entirely sure why I've quoted your post for the following drivel, as it's more directed at Smith doubters. Newcastle under Bruce have scored the second fewest goals of any team in the division, yet they sit two wins from European placing two thirds of the way through a season. Bruce has won half of his games through 1-0 victories already, and believe it or not I think 18 of his wins in a season that saw promotion from the championship, were 1-0 wins. Pretty confident both Hull promotions saw a similar number of 1-0 victories. It's his thing. Anyway, back to the loose reason I quote you and mention Bruce, they are two wins from European placing, two-thirds of the season gone. Do you know what separates us from them? Two wins. Not much, hey (possibly why it's considered a competition)? Two whole wins, which is something Bruce only delivers through scoring a single goal, half the time. Yet we are top half in terms of goals scored, two thirds of the way through a season. We've scored against every team in European placing (pretty damn sure). Don't worry I'm not going to regurgitate all the reasons why it's been such a difficult challenge for our club to reintegrate and acquaint itself with the division in which we want to call home, but it has been that, a real uphill battle. Once upon a time reminiscing about the glory days of yesteryear this club has enjoyed won't bring us off our knees as a club. There's a saying which I find some value in at times and it goes, "If you aren't bringing anything to the table, don't expect a seat". What has Villa offered the PL in recent years? It's getting late here so I don't want to rabble on much longer, but I think it's fair to say an obvious but true formula for success in football is a process of enhancing your assets whilst decreasing the exposure of your liabilities, regardless of the system you employ. if you consider the style and approach that Smith is aiming for, and developing within this young and inexperienced team, and within the time-frames he's done it in, you can see he really does intend on playing a brand of football with enough quality on the ball, to take the game to any team, at any time. This can be highlighted by our Cup Final achievement, or the previously mentioned record of scoring against every European placed team, as well as the traditional "big six". But it also highlights the difficulty behind such ambitions and the liabilities that come with introducing a playing style among a side in it's youthful years and infancy of experiences at top flight level. I'm going to wrap it up here, Brendan Rodgers who has Leicester in third played right now, played with a similar ambition and emphasis of having quality on the ball during his Swansea years, as did Roberto Martinez, who now manages Belgium, and is trusted with the likes of De Bruyne, Hazard and the rest. Well for a man who wasn’t going to bang on....... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 44 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: Well for a man who wasn’t going to bang on....... Please, that was a paragraph! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 " Ritchie De Laet: “It’s a massive club but I never got going at Villa. The injury was a terrible time, then I couldn’t get into the side. Steve Bruce wasn’t my cup of tea. The football was too similar to Tony Pulis, but at least Tony had a plan.”“I remember Steve would throw the ball into the middle in training and say ‘let’s play’, like we were under-nines. It was crazy.”[the athletic] " Never forget... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 4 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: " Ritchie De Laet: “It’s a massive club but I never got going at Villa. The injury was a terrible time, then I couldn’t get into the side. Steve Bruce wasn’t my cup of tea. The football was too similar to Tony Pulis, but at least Tony had a plan.”“I remember Steve would throw the ball into the middle in training and say ‘let’s play’, like we were under-nines. It was crazy.”[the athletic] " Never forget... Although it was Dean Smith, of course, who finally eased him out of the club. Wonder what his take is on that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 On 10/02/2020 at 08:58, villalad21 said: Harsh on Trez. He is inconsistent but he isn't a bad player like Wes. Think he's getting better but needs regular time, has scored a few winners for us when we least expected to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 On 10/02/2020 at 09:05, Stevo985 said: I find it amazing that after years of people moaning about Bruce being too defensive, we now have a manager who isn't as defensive, has got us promoted, got us into a cup final and is on track to keep us in the premier league; and people are complaining that we should be more defensive. That's about right lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 On 09/02/2020 at 20:51, sheepyvillian said: It took those managers quite a while to achieve the standards they aimed for, and I don't think it's remiss of me to say that luck also played it's part. I'm thinking of that Neil Webb goal that probably saved Fergie from the sack, such are the fine margins when it comes to success and failure. I think that goal was Mark Robins....but you are not wrong.....everyone needs a bit of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) On 10/02/2020 at 09:05, Stevo985 said: I find it amazing that after years of people moaning about Bruce being too defensive, we now have a manager who isn't as defensive, has got us promoted, got us into a cup final and is on track to keep us in the premier league; and people are complaining that we should be more defensive. I beg to differ.....i think we are saying we need to defend better, not be more defensive.....there is a subtle difference. its the conceding of nearly 2 goals a game that's got fans twitchy and thats fair in my view. winning 50/50 balls and ball retention is part of defending better....committing the majority of the team behind the ball and cautious play is defensive, no we don't want that. Edited February 13, 2020 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, TRO said: I beg to differ.....i think we are saying we need to defend better, not be more defensive.....there is a subtle difference. Exactly this. It's not that we are offensive or defensive, or we should be less offensive or more defensive. Its that we dont defend properly, this is relevant whether you are a defensive, neutral or attacking team, regardless of what we are we arent defending properly as a team, it's that simple tbh. We dont harry well enough, we dont intelligently foul, we are hustled off too easily, we are too passive, we are too easy to run through, we stand off too much, we dont press properly, we dont defend from the front properly, we dont do so many things that are really the basics of proper team defending. Being "not good enough" as a team of players is fine (I actually think our first 11 is a mid table team on paper), if that's the case we cant magically make players better than they are, but to not do the basics is criminal, and we dont do the basics well at all. Who's fault it is? Who knows, probably a number of factors, but the inability to defend properly as a team is our single biggest weakness, and it's probably the single biggest reason we are in the relegation dog fight and not mid table. Edited February 13, 2020 by MaVilla 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 On 10/02/2020 at 13:22, rodders0223 said: We shouldn't be more defensive, but we should be more organised. Whether that is caused through training, quality on the pitch or lack of experience in the defensive areas, we have given away goals so so freely it is criminal. Winning the ball and retaining the ball, is just 2 elements of a team defending well. as you say, being defensive is slightly a different context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, MaVilla said: Exactly this. It's not that we are offensive or defensive, or we should be less offensive or more defensive. Its that we dont defend properly, this is relevant whether you are a defensive, neutral or attacking team, regardless of what we are we arent defending properly as a team, it's that simple tbh. We dont harry well enough, we dont intelligently foul, we are hustled off too easily, we are too passive, we are too easy to run through, we stand off too much, we dont press properly, we dont defend from the front properly, we dont do so many things that are really the basics of proper team defending. Being "not good enough" as a team of players is fine (I actually think our first 11 is a mid table team on paper), if that's the case we cant magically make players better than they are, but to not do the basics is criminal, and we dont do the basics well at all. Who's fault it is? Who knows, probably a number of factors, but the inability to defend properly as a team is our single biggest weakness, and it's probably the single biggest reason we are in the relegation dog fight and not mid table. One of the best posts, i have read on here lately. absolutely spot on, you clearly watch the game analytically and eloquently describe many elements of our games to a tee. Edited February 13, 2020 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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