Zatman Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 9 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said: You can't keep going on about the last decade, it's getting boring now. Leeds spent 16 years out the Prem including dropping off to League 1 for a couple of seasons, similarly with Wolves and Leicester. Hasn't stopped them achieving great things at this level. is 10th position really great things at this level? since we are 11th 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 We all felt kicked in the nut sack today but this season is over and we all know that too. Cannot start extracting truths from a game like that - but yes we should have seen it out. All that said, I will not and cannot fathom hatred towards Smith. Smacks of entitlement or shortest of short term memories. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Two top 7 finishes in a row and europa league QF (losing to eventual winners Sevilla) isn't too bad and they should've played in FA cup final in 2019 aswell but for messing us last 20 minutes v Watford. Clear regression from them this season so time will tell if they've learnt the lessons, already a leak they'll be targeting more British players in the summer so could be likely they'll go after same targets as us like Dwight McNeil. Wait. You're classing should have played in a cup final as a success yet seem to ignore we actually did play in a cup final just last season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Just now, DCJonah said: And so it should. No one is saying we should accept midtable for ever. But to start saying we should be fed up with it right now is just embarrassing. I'd have liked to have finished top 10 but I agree a result like today is frustrating but wouldn't have made a different to finishing 11th even if we'd won. I think for a few of us the worry is no change of mindset and we'll be some way off top 8 next season aswell when I truly believe it's realistic for us to finish above a couple of West Ham, Everton and one of the North London clubs based on what I've seen this season if we're just a bit smarter e.g. more rotation with first 11, better quality out wide/upfront and manager adapting quicker to second half flows. Just not convinced it will happen. Interesting 12 months in store for us though I suspect and we'll see the real ambitions of the ownership in this timeframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Just now, Jareth said: We all felt kicked in the nut sack today but this season is over and we all know that too. Cannot start extracting truths from a game like that - but yes we should have seen it out. All that said, I will not and cannot fathom hatred towards Smith. Smacks of entitlement or shortest of short term memories. Couldn't agree more. Bring on the summer and next year. Great time to be a villa fan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 16, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 16, 2021 41 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: Do people remember the O'Neil wars? That band of people that mocked everyone yet were so quick to ignore the skyrocketing wagebill the net spend and the same mistakes being made by management. 'We've never had it so good!' In fairness, whatever your opinion on Dean Smith, that's not a situation that's going to happen again. O'Neil had control over transfer matters, it was 'his' budget and he got the players he wanted. Smith is our Head Coach, he has an input, but our recruitment strategy is such that he wouldn't be allowed to bring in a group of experienced older players, O'Neil was one of the last of the old school managers that ran the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, villalad21 said: I don't care about Nuno. Think he is an overrated coach and play a horrible brand of football. Owners need to be smart about this. Wait till someone like Pochettino becomes available and do not wait with approaching him. Pochettino thats 2nd in a one team league? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Just now, VillaChris said: I'd have liked to have finished top 10 but I agree a result like today is frustrating but wouldn't have made a different to finishing 11th even if we'd won. I think for a few of us the worry is no change of mindset and we'll be some way off top 8 next season aswell when I truly believe it's realistic for us to finish above a couple of West Ham, Everton and one of the North London clubs based on what I've seen this season if we're just a bit smarter e.g. more rotation with first 11, better quality out wide/upfront and manager adapting quicker to second half flows. Just not convinced it will happen. Interesting 12 months in store for us though I suspect and we'll see the real ambitions of the ownership in this timeframe. Ultimately if Smith doesn't deliver then he goes. But so far he's done everything asked and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Just now, Zatman said: is 10th position really great things at this level? since we are 11th This is what I don’t get. If we swapped places with Leeds to finish one place higher would this suddenly be some great season? We’ve shown great progress from last season regardless of finishing below another team who have also had a great season against their expectations. The fixation with Leeds on here is more annoying to me than the invasion of Leeds fans when they win a game of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted May 16, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Two top 7 finishes in a row and europa league QF (losing to eventual winners Sevilla) isn't too bad and they should've played in FA cup final in 2019 aswell but for messing us last 20 minutes v Watford. Clear regression from them this season so time will tell if they've learnt the lessons, already a leak they'll be targeting more British players in the summer so could be likely they'll go after same targets as us like Dwight McNeil. They are not “great things” that deserve to lumped in with Leicester’s “great things” which the original post stated. They are very good, commendable accomplishments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I can actually. It's how you keep perspective. Leeds have achieved great things? What the 10th place trophy? The way you dismiss Leeds achievements is the way you dismiss fans on here criticising the manager. Leeds have played very good attacking football all the way through whilst simultaneously adjusting their methods when they couldn't defend properly to become more consistent, and they'll finish top half and only a few points off the European places in their first season back in this league for 16 years. That's no small achievement, even if 'great' is a slight exaggeration. Particularly when you look at who plays week in week out for them - players who've played most their careers at a lower level. If Smith has done a great job by your standards for us then what Bielsa has achieved is a God damn miracle. Edited May 16, 2021 by VillaFaninLondon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Just now, DCJonah said: Wait. You're classing should have played in a cup final as a success yet seem to ignore we actually did play in a cup final just last season. It was just an added extra to add to the Wolves resume (they beat Liverpool and Man United in the run), not as significant obviously as two 7th place finishes and decent european run. I'd be more than happy with that at some point in next 3 seasons so whoever said Wolves haven't achieved anything is plain wrong. Now they've regressed for various reasons and we'll see what their response is for next season soon enough, will they fall apart like we did from 2010 onwards as there are some parallels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Just now, tom_avfc said: This is what I don’t get. If we swapped places with Leeds to finish one place higher would this suddenly be some great season? We’ve shown great progress from last season regardless of finishing below another team who have also had a great season against their expectations. The fixation with Leeds on here is more annoying to me than the invasion of Leeds fans when they win a game of football. No. The same people would cling onto something else then. What ever has happened, over 38 games this season has been a success. We've improved, we're building and it's enabled us to really plan for the summer. It's an exciting time, yet some act like we're fighting for our lives again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted May 16, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 16, 2021 Just now, DCJonah said: Ultimately if Smith doesn't deliver then he goes. But so far he's done everything asked and more. I'm Smith in...but he's mentioned top half being the target a few times, so this season he has actually not met his objective barring a miracle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Just now, VillaFaninLondon said: The way you dismiss Leeds achievements is the way you dismiss fans on here criticising the manager. Leeds have played very good attacking football all the way through whilst simultaneously adjusting their methods when they couldn't defend properly to become more consistent, and they'll finish top half and only a few points off the European places in their first season back in this league for 16 years. That's no small achievement, even if 'great' is a slight exaggeration. If Smith has done a great job by your standards for us then what Bielsa has achieved is a God damn miracle. Leeds have done very well. Show me where I've said different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 1 minute ago, VillaFaninLondon said: The way you dismiss Leeds achievements is the way you dismiss fans on here criticising the manager. Leeds have played very good attacking football all the way through whilst simultaneously adjusting their methods when they couldn't defend properly to become more consistent, and they'll finish top half and only a few points off the European places in their first season back in this league for 16 years. That's no small achievement, even if 'great' is a slight exaggeration. If Smith has done a great job by your standards for us then what Bielsa has achieved is a God damn miracle. Bielsa has a salary of 8 million a year, its definitely not miraculous for the money they are paying him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Afro Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jareth said: We all felt kicked in the nut sack today but this season is over and we all know that too. Cannot start extracting truths from a game like that - but yes we should have seen it out. All that said, I will not and cannot fathom hatred towards Smith. Smacks of entitlement or shortest of short term memories. I don’t think people hate Smith. I would think most fans really like him. He is a lovely man and he is one of us. You can’t blame today on some kind of end of season on the beach scenario though. If that’s true we have been on the beach since Christmas because the level of performance has been consistent since then. That has to sit with the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Just now, Harry said: I agree Grealish is miles off being match fit and he is being played in the vain hope that somehow he will make the difference. I doubt we will get any more points this season and I would much rather Smith tried something different for the last couple of games namely different tactics and formations. We seem to have a Plan A and nothing else. Grealish is being played because he wants to goto the Euros, and Dean being a good manager and looking out for his players, is giving him the opportunity to get some game time before the season ends. We don't have a plan B because we don't have the quality off the bench to enact one. This has been spoken about all season. When we were playing well Villa were covering more distance than any other squad. Eventually it would catch up to us and it has, especially in midfield. It's an obvious flaw that the recruitment team is probably well aware of. Let's see how they attempt to correct it this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: In fairness, whatever your opinion on Dean Smith, that's not a situation that's going to happen again. O'Neil had control over transfer matters, it was 'his' budget and he got the players he wanted. Smith is our Head Coach, he has an input, but our recruitment strategy is such that he wouldn't be allowed to bring in a group of experienced older players, O'Neil was one of the last of the old school managers that ran the club. It certainly had its flaws with how bad the wage bill got but in general terms was probably the best fit given who we had in the key positions. As soon as Lerner didn't want to invest much anymore and we got Faulkner peddling the "we're going to be the next Ajax" line around 2012 things got bad very quickly. And they obviously couldn't appoint a decent manager in any of the years post O'Neill either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 17 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I think to claim his in game management is diabolical is way OTT. It often is though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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