Dean Smith

[LondonLax]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

It's very different situations though. The only similarity is that we were both promoted. 

Sure and as I say I don’t want to change managers. Still, i’m happy to acknowledge that Leeds manager has done better that ours and he will rightly be in the mix for manager of the season. 

If we can show steady progress season after season that’s all I ask (all the better that Dean is one of ours as well!). 

[VillaChris]

Wolves won't be finishing above us at least.

[tom_avfc]

4 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

To be fair I think it’s more a comparison with what they did in their first season in the Premier League compared to what we did. Now we’re in our second season after spending over 200m and we still can’t out do their first season back.

It’s no shame to admit their manager has done better than ours. I still don’t want to change manager at this stage but the pressure will be on Dean next season. 

It’s a really pointless comparison though. You’re comparing two completely different teams who were in completely different positions when they were promoted. We had to spend the best part of £40m on re-signing loan players before we even started to strengthen. We had no centre forward at the club.

Last season everybody would have said Chris wilder was doing a fantastic job and look at Sheffield United now.

For me the only comparison that needs to be made is against our expectations at the start of the season. If you’d offered me an eleventh place finish I’d have bitten your hand off and we can look to improve again next season.

[KenjiOgiwara]

1 hour ago, M_Afro said:

It’s not a few losses though is it. We have lost as many games since Christmas as anyone, apart from two teams. We also lost to Sheff Utd, despite the fact they had a really weakened team out and played most of the second half against 10 men. You can brush it up as you like but this is not about a run of poor results, it’s a very long run of utterly clueless performances. That’s a fact.

So what did you expect? Do you think it's normal for clubs that barely survived a relegation fight to not hit a slump after such a brilliant start?

That's before mentioning injuries and a covid outbreak.

Swear it’s like people are new to competitive football.

Edited May 16, 2021 by KenjiOgiwara

[villa4europe]

20 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

OK, fine. But surely you must be concerned with our form since January? 

Nope

We had a flyer, gor a key injury, got corona, hit a ropey spell, gave up, continued the ropey spell

Its unfortunately part of football, Palace spent long periods this season not turning up probably cos uncle woy is finished, spurs gave up despite being a better squad than ours with a bigger name manager (same spurs also gave up under Poch...) happened to wolves once jimenez got injured, Neves and Moutinhos heads dropped, what's happened to us happens incredibly frequently 

Said before if we had the exact same number of points, exact same number of wins but we'd done it in some sort of consistent fashion and won the games that we should win and lost the games that we should lose then no one would care 

Edited May 16, 2021 by villa4europe

[VillaFaninLondon]

8 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

It's not unusual for a team to really over achieve.

When Leicester won the league, do you think midtable teams were moaning because they weren't in a title challenge.  

They've overachieved because they've got a fantastic manager.

 

I don't know what was said when Leicester won the league, but I recall a lot of teams who missed out on that title (e.g. Spurs) being hacked off because Leicester had had the bottle to keep going whereas their team hadn't.

 

Of course I'll compare my team to another one that is outperforming it, it's natural. 

[M_Afro]

25 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Well that might be his personal target. I doubt the owners told him top half or failure. And ultimately its going to be a few points difference. 

He got us up, he kept us up and he's progressed us up the table. 

It’s not going to be a few points difference though. It could well be 8 or 9 by the time we have finally limped past our final game. That’s a pretty big gap to be fair.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

It would be just like us, to inexplicably turn over Tottenham and Chelsea as well.

If Jekyll and Hyde were a team.

We will be embarrassed if we don't get our act in the middle together against those team though.

The likes of Kante and Mount will have a field day.

[LondonLax]

7 minutes ago, tom_avfc said:

It’s a really pointless comparison though. You’re comparing two completely different teams who were in completely different positions when they were promoted. We had to spend the best part of £40m on re-signing loan players before we even started to strengthen. We had no centre forward at the club.

Last season everybody would have said Chris wilder was doing a fantastic job and look at Sheffield United now.

For me the only comparison that needs to be made is against our expectations at the start of the season. If you’d offered me an eleventh place finish I’d have bitten your hand off and we can look to improve again next season.

Yeah, hopefully we can hang on to 11th which will represent a solid season (we’ll likely lose our last two as well). 

However,  if you’d told me at Christmas we’d finish below newly promoted Leeds and below struggling Arsenal I’d have been very disappointed but that’s likely what is going to pass. 

The big test for the management team is where we go from here. If this form carries on into next season I suspect Dean’s job will be at threat. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by LondonLax

[Demitri_C]

Smith should have taken responsibility for this defeat on his post match.

Very disappointing comments this defeat was on him. 

Poor subs and the timing was abysmal 

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, LondonLax said:

Yeah, hopefully we can hang on to 11th which will represent a solid season (we’ll likely lose our last two as well). 

However,  if you’d told me at Christmas we’d finish below newly promoted Leeds and below struggling Arsenal I’d have been very disappointed but that’s likely what is going to pass. 

The big test for the management team is where we go from here. If this form carries on into next season I suspect Dean’s job will be at threat. 

But we can't stop other teams doing well. 

In most other seasons over the last decade 49 pts gets you top half. 

[Mark Albrighton]

8 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

A little but there have been so many factors that I believe have played a part. I'm not too concerned with a proper pre season and more spending in the summer. 

I'm not Smith in for ever regardless. If we have a terrible year next season then he will be rightly replaced. But he's done a fantastic job so far and deserves to keep trying to build us up. 

 

This is where I am and I suspect most are.

It’s probably obvious but the main area of potential disagreement will be, if Villa spend £100m in the summer (and other clubs will also spend), how much of an improvement is required. Or what has to happen to constitute making a change. 

Would a final position of 9th be a big enough jump? What if there’s an injury crisis? Does a cup run, or even a cup win mean a lower league position is acceptable? Down to the individual posters’ view as ever.

If say next season played out similarly to this season, I think the club might act, “Thank you Dean for everything but we’re looking to move on.” Of course, I’m not 100% on that, but I could see it.

But at the same time, if Villa finished sixth next season, obviously he’d be kept on. But if Villa didn’t manage top six again the following year...we would be having the “he’s taking us as far as he can” discussion.

I suppose all that rambling is me basically saying the “ceiling” is in all likelihood probably going to be hit at some point in the next couple of years regardless. Which means the debate on that front is inevitable.
 

[DCJonah]

6 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

They've overachieved because they've got a fantastic manager.

 

I don't know what was said when Leicester won the league, but I recall a lot of teams who missed out on that title (e.g. Spurs) being hacked off because Leicester had had the bottle to keep going whereas their team hadn't.

 

Of course I'll compare my team to another one that is outperforming it, it's natural. 

OK, this seems to be going in another direction. Leeds have done really well. Their success doesn't impact on me at all.

[tom_avfc]

1 minute ago, LondonLax said:

Yeah, hopefully we can hang on to 11th which will represent a solid season (we’ll likely lose our last two as well). 

However,  if you’d told me at Christmas we’d finish below newly promoted Leeds and below struggling Arsenal I’d have been very disappointed but that’s likely what is going to pass. 

The big test for the management team is where we go from here. If this form carries on into next season I suspect Dean’s job will be at threat. 

To not finish eleventh now would need Wolves to beat both United and Everton or palace to beat both Liverpool and Arsenal. I don’t see it happening.

Agree that falling away has been frustrating but given our small squad size making us particularly susceptible to injuries and tiredness it was probably to be expected.

As silly as it sounds I’d love it if we could get one more point to reach the 50 mark even though it really doesn’t matter! 

[LondonLax]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

But we can't stop other teams doing well. 

In most other seasons over the last decade 49 pts gets you top half. 

We can by beating them

[M_Afro]

1 minute ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

So what did you expect? Do you think it's normal for clubs that barely survived a relegation fight to not hit a slump after such a brilliant start?

That's before mentioning injuries and a covid outbreak.

Swear it’s like people are new to competitive football.

A slump is a run of a few games. This is half a season. We also invested heavily over the summer (and January) to ensure that a slump didn’t happen again. All teams have to cope with injuries. As for C-19 it’s absolutely impossible to tell what impact that has had. It could have been a good thing, giving us a rest during a busy period but we will never know. 
What is a fact is that in each of his seasons as manager we have had long spells of good form and long spells of terrible form. There has never been a consistent level of performance over the course of the season. He seems totally incapable of arresting the poor form. A good manager is able to maintain a fairly steady level of performance, with minor purple and red patches. Smith’s Villa are the football version of a schizophrenic. 

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

We can by beating them

We did the double over arsenal and took 4 pts off Everton. We beat Leeds as well. 

They're all still ahead of us.

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

A slump is a run of a few games. This is half a season. We also invested heavily over the summer (and January) to ensure that a slump didn’t happen again. All teams have to cope with injuries. As for C-19 it’s absolutely impossible to tell what impact that has had. It could have been a good thing, giving us a rest during a busy period but we will never know. 
What is a fact is that in each of his seasons as manager we have had long spells of good form and long spells of terrible form. There has never been a consistent level of performance over the course of the season. He seems totally incapable of arresting the poor form. A good manager is able to maintain a fairly steady level of performance, with minor purple and red patches. Smith’s Villa are the football version of a schizophrenic. 

If that were true we'd be in the championship. 

But it's not true.

[LondonLax]

If we forget about Leeds and look at Arsenal for a minute. 

Supposedly they are a bit of a joke. Apparently they have a terrible squad (how many of their players would you swap for ours?) and their manager is apparently useless and out of his depth. 

And yet they will comfortably finish above us. 

Surely then some questions need to be asked?

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, LondonLax said:

If we forget about Leeds and look at Arsenal for a minute. 

Supposedly they are a bit of a joke. Apparently they have a terrible squad (how many of their players would you swap for ours?) and their manager is apparently useless and out of his depth. 

And yet they will comfortably finish above us. 

Surely then some questions need to be asked?

They're a bit of a joke because they're arsenal and should be challenging top 4/title. 

The idea that finishing below arsenal in our 2nd season needs questions to be asked is crazy. 

It's arsenal.