Dean Smith

[VillaFaninLondon]

14 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

OK, this seems to be going in another direction. Leeds have done really well. Their success doesn't impact on me at all.

Regardless of Leeds or any other team, the form has been very poor since January and if it had been like that the whole season Smith's job would have been under real scrutiny.

 

He'll get another summer of investment where he has to add real quality and next season will have to be going much better after 10 games than the last 10 games of this season, otherwise we will go backwards and neither the owners or the fans will tolerate that. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by VillaFaninLondon

[villa4europe]

1 minute ago, LondonLax said:

If we forget about Leeds and look at Arsenal for a minute. 

Supposedly they are a bit of a joke. Apparently they have a terrible squad (how many of their players would you swap for ours?) and their manager is apparently useless and out of his depth. 

And yet they will comfortably finish above us. 

Surely then some questions need to be asked?

The key word there is supposedly... 

Arsenal's squad is those things in the context of challenging for CL or being part of the big 6, its not in terms of being 10th 

Arsenal have a better first 11 than us no question, it's just a case of whether or not they can be bothered most weeks 

[DCJonah]

Just now, VillaFaninLondon said:

Regardless of Leeds or any other team, the form has been very poor since January and if it had been like that the whole season Smith's job would have been under real scrutiny.

 

He'll get another summer of investment where he has to add real quality and next season will have to be going much better after 10 games than the last 10 games of this season, otherwise we will go backwards and the owners or the fans won't tolerate that. 

Yeah, I think that's probably fair. 

[villa4europe]

Just now, VillaFaninLondon said:

Regardless of Leeds or any other team, the form has been very poor since January and if it had been like that the whole season Smith's job would have been under real scrutiny.

Or like me you could beleive that the 2nd half of the season is a direct result of the first

Us being safe at Xmas has lead to the players relaxing, the danger is they relax too far but then the reality also is that too many of these players still aren't good enough and need replacing anyway 

[LondonLax]

1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

They're a bit of a joke because they're arsenal and should be challenging top 4/title. 

The idea that finishing below arsenal in our 2nd season needs questions to be asked is crazy. 

It's arsenal. 

Really? Are we judging just on reputation now? That’s not the impression I got with fans critique of their squad and manager earlier in the season. 

As I say, how many of their players would you take from their 11 to include in ours? I would think less than half the side. Is their manager better than ours? He must be to get a tune out of those players? 

[Villarocker]

It would have been crazy for us to face European competition next season with the squad as it is. So, with that in mind, I am more than happy with us finishing anywhere around 8th-12th. Finishing above Wolves and Albion was also a target for me. I think we've achieved that. 

Had we not lost Grealish and had the Covid outbreak we might have finished top 8 but that would have messed us up next season. I'm happy where we are and think it gives us a great platform to kick on again next season where, with another £100m spend we could easily finish top 8.

 

[M_Afro]

4 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

If that were true we'd be in the championship. 

But it's not true.

But he only arrested it after a long Covid break. If that break hadn’t occurred we would almost certainly have been in the Championship and he would have been sacked. He seems incapable of arresting it in normal season. I know he did it when we were in the Championship but how much was that about getting Jack back? Having Jack in the Championship is akin to Barcelona having Messi at his best.

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

But he only arrested it after a long Covid break. If that break hadn’t occurred we would almost certainly have been in the Championship and he would have been sacked. He seems incapable of arresting it in normal season. I know he did it when we were in the Championship but how much was that about getting Jack back? Having Jack in the Championship is akin to Barcelona having Messi at his best.

But then surely you can argue that covid has had a negative effect this year. 

You can't use it as a reason against him last year and ignore it now. 

[Spoony]

I bet most people start of season thought a relegation battle was back on the cards. It hasn’t been.

This has been a good season in weird circumstances. We remain in the PL and now we can build on that. We finally have a good structure in place and the good feeling at the club remains. You all honestly expect too much. Baby steps people. You don’t go from 17th to European challengers in one season sustainably...

[villa4europe]

7 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

Really? Are we judging just on reputation now? That’s not the impression I got with fans critique of their squad and manager earlier in the season. 

As I say, how many of their players would you take from their 11 to include in ours? I would think less than half the side. Is their manager better than ours? He must be to get a tune out of those players? 

They have two strikers who cost a combined £110m and earn £500k a week... And they gave away a £60m £350k a week player in january

Arsenal are shit for a host of reasons but lets not pretend that we're better than they are and us finishing below them is a stick to beat Smith with

Edited May 16, 2021 by villa4europe

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

Really? Are we judging just on reputation now? That’s not the impression I got with fans critique of their squad and manager earlier in the season. 

As I say, how many of their players would you take from their 11 to include in ours? I would think less than half the side. Is their manager better than ours? He must be to get a tune out of those players? 

Yes. It's Arsenal. They finished 8th last season while we finished 17th. 

They've not progressing for the club they need to be but there's no way you can criticise us for not finishing above them. 

[NeilS]

The season has now fizzled out after the strong start. I would have been happy enough with mid table at beginning of the season so can’t complain too much. Deano has earned another shot at next season, but will need a good start so the bad form from the second half of the season doesn’t continue into next season or he might find himself under pressure from above.

On a side note, It looks like we are unlikely to be moving up or down a position in the league now after today’s results. I am hoping Deano takes the opportunity to throw a couple of the youngsters like Chuk, Barry and Kesler a bit of game time (not all at once mind), so they get some minutes on the pitch with the first team. Twenty mins at the end of a game will do them or us no harm.

[LondonLax]

5 minutes ago, Villarocker said:

It would have been crazy for us to face European competition next season with the squad as it is. So, with that in mind, I am more than happy with us finishing anywhere around 8th-12th. Finishing above Wolves and Albion was also a target for me. I think we've achieved that. 

Had we not lost Grealish and had the Covid outbreak we might have finished top 8 but that would have messed us up next season. I'm happy where we are and think it gives us a great platform to kick on again next season where, with another £100m spend we could easily finish top 8.

 

I agree with much of this. Who knows how things would have gone this season without COVID or Grealish’s long injury. It’s possible that we were thrown off course there. 

The start of next season is going to be so critical. If the owners spend another 100m on the squad and we are still treading water in the bottom half I suspect it will not be acceptable. 

[VillaFaninLondon]

11 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Or like me you could beleive that the 2nd half of the season is a direct result of the first

Us being safe at Xmas has lead to the players relaxing, the danger is they relax too far but then the reality also is that too many of these players still aren't good enough and need replacing anyway 

I don't think they have relaxed. We still had a lot to play for in January. Ultimately not getting into Europe isn't what irks me, because I agree with others that that was probably a step too far for us and we need at least another season before that's realistic. What angers and also concerns me is the form since January is very close to relegation form (even the form table has us in 18th if you want to look at that) and this has to improve early next season or Smith is in trouble.

 

And the players not being good enough narrative needs to stop. Whether it's true or not, I've already named other sides who could use the same arguments but don't. This is virtually all of Smith's team now - he signed most of these players. And yet he still relies totally on one player that had been here long before he arrived as manager. 

[hippo]

38 minutes ago, paul514 said:

Chuck has a mans body he needs some minutes.

I disagree. I watched the wba game of Friday. Clearly a talented player but not ready for the rigours of the prem just yet.

In general we need to keep our expectation levels down - 2 players from the current u 18s making it would be something of a result. They won't all make it.

 

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

I don't think they have relaxed. We still had a lot to play for in January. Ultimately not getting into Europe isn't what irks me, because I agree with others that that was probably a step too far for us and we need at least another season before that's realistic. What angers and also concerns me is the form since January is very close to relegation form (even the form table has us in 18th if you want to look at that) and this has to improve early next season or Smith is in trouble.

 

And the players not being good enough narrative needs to stop. Whether it's true or not, I've already named other sides who could use the same arguments but don't. This is virtually all of Smith's team now - he signed most of these players. And yet he still relies totally on one player that had been here long before he arrived as manager. 

So we don't need to sign anyone then? 

You think having the likes of Elmo and Nakamba as back ups is good enough? Or Davis and Wesley as our only other striking options is good enough? 

[villa4europe]

1 minute ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

I don't think they have relaxed. We still had a lot to play for in January. Ultimately not getting into Europe isn't what irks me, because I agree with others that that was probably a step too far for us and we need at least another season before that's realistic. What angers and also concerns me is the form since January is very close to relegation form (even the form table has us in 18th if you want to look at that) and this has to improve early next season or Smith is in trouble.

And the players not being good enough narrative needs to stop. Whether it's true or not, I've already named other sides who could use the same arguments but don't. This is virtually all of Smith's team now - he signed most of these players. And yet he still relies totally on one player that had been here long before he arrived as manager. 

Out model is not based around Smith buying all the players for a start

Its then a case of some of these players have been bought for different reasons, not all of them have been bought for a European push, this is a squad assembled to finish mid table and that's exactly what it's done, there are several, maybe as many as 10 players in the squad who are not top half PL quality, there are a few that aren't even PL quality 

Unfortunately most weeks it looks like all 3 of the midfield and it kills us 

[M_Afro]

3 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

But then surely you can argue that covid has had a negative effect this year. 

You can't use it as a reason against him last year and ignore it now. 

I think we will have to agree to disagree. I want him to be a success but he is not delivering in my view. All that really matters is what the owners think. I don’t think they will be happy and Dean is under massive pressure. 2 more really poor results could be enough for them.

[The_Steve]

Crazy stat. We can turn it around next year. 
 

 

 

[VillaFaninLondon]

8 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

So we don't need to sign anyone then? 

You think having the likes of Elmo and Nakamba as back ups is good enough? Or Davis and Wesley as our only other striking options is good enough? 

Not at all, I agree we need better than those particularly to compete with the teams near the top. I'm advocating another summer of spending, but I've said the spending needs to be on real quality to move us forwards now. I still am sceptical whether top players would come to play for Smith, but as far as I can see it will be Lange and MacKenzie tasked with getting the players to come. 

 

However, losing to the likes of Sheff U and Burnley, failing to beat the Boggies at home, even losing to Palace today - I don't believe we didn't win those games because we had inferior players put it that way.