Demitri_C Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 8 hours ago, Rolta said: Is this one of those things like happens a lot these days where there's no evidence, but people believe it anyway? Or we can swing it around and say there is no evidence its not true either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Or we can swing it around and say there is no evidence its not true either I hope the world isn't as insane as the logic here. The burden of proof is always on the accuser. Otherwise we all might as well give up, the whole human race – the way things have been going though in Trumpland and UK Trumpland, I'm sure we'll see plenty more subjective opinions thrown around as if they have this level of actual weight. Our politics is rife with it, truth is becoming subjective and that's utterly depressing. Facts don't matter any more, only what you want to believe. Edited June 13, 2020 by Rolta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Rolta said: I hope the world isn't as insane as the logic here. The burden of proof is always on the accuser. Otherwise we all might as well give up, the whole human race – the way things have been going though in Trumpland and UK Trumpland, I'm sure we'll see plenty more subjective opinions thrown around as if they have this level of actual weight. Our politics is rife with it, truth is becoming subjective and that's utterly depressing. Facts don't matter any more, only what you want to believe. "Insane as the logic here" Your saying not to believe it as its untrue im merely stating a fact you dont know if its true or not. And your post is opinion not fact not sure why your bringing politics into this post as this has nothing to do with it Edited June 13, 2020 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Just now, Demitri_C said: "Insane as the logic here" Your saying not to believe it as its untrue im merely stating a fact you dont know if its true or not. And your post is opinion not fact not sure why your bringing politics into this post as this has nothing to do with it I said the first part because you didn't seem to get that the burden of proof is with the accuser. Think about a world where the burden of proof is on the accused and you'll have nightmares. As for the politics, it's easy to feel depressed because it's the same shit everywhere – 'I believe this and it must be true.' Sure it was off topic, but it's there now. Presumably my opinion refers to the fact that truth doesn't matter any more in politics. I mean do you disagree? Our whole government demonstrably, objectively, with proof keep on lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Rolta said: I said the first part because you didn't seem to get that the burden of proof is with the accuser. Think about a world where the burden of proof is on the accused and you'll have nightmares. As for the politics, it's easy to feel depressed because it's the same shit everywhere – 'I believe this and it must be true.' Sure it was off topic, but it's there now. Presumably my opinion refers to the fact that truth doesn't matter any more in politics. I mean do you disagree? Our whole government demonstrably, objectively, with proof keep on lying. Shall we continue this in the politics thread? Its a interesting debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Shall we continue this in the politics thread? Its a interesting debate What a depressing idea. If you want to debate against whether the UK government are pretty exceptional bullshitters, I think you yourself can just go square pretty much everything BJ has said in the last nine months and go square it with what's actually now happening and do your own conclusions. Then pick most members of the cabinet and do the same. Then see what they were all saying back in 2016 and see what they're saying now. Same with most things that come out of Trump's mouth too. I should have stuck to El Ghazi. Truth is, we don't know if he's agitating for a move. And I think it's fair to say building a prejudice against someone is better with some actual truth, some evidence, not just things made up or overheard by someone posting on a messageboard. Edited June 13, 2020 by Rolta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, Dave-R said: I think theres been plenty of bull bullcrap from Ghazi to suggest hes looking for a way out. If by any chance he is he can get lost now for all I care. I'd rather us lose 10 nill in a game than have one player on our team who is always looking for excuses not to play. The way he goes off at times with these injury's then he's back fine again following match, it all suggests to me we have a player who is expecting everything laid at his feet and if that doesnt work, he doesnt want to put the time in to make it work. Anyone would think Ghazi is royalty, maybe he should hook up with the prince in the stands. I used to have a go at Kodjia for looking uninterested, yet Ghazi this season has topped Kodjia's cant be arsed attitude at times, least Kodjia stayed on the pitch. Crazy thing is I honestly thought we had got rid of certain behaviours but in alot of ways as TRO mentions, Smith maybe inviting this type of behaviour in because he fails to shut it down or deal with it in a way that results in a player knowing there place, is Smith to soft??? I think Smith is too soft......and El Ghazi mirrors him. Edited June 13, 2020 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 12 hours ago, Rolta said: So that's a no then! Another problem in the world—making conclusions not from actual facts but from a bias you've gone on to confirm yourself with your own thoughts. 'The way he goes off at times'—there's been one controversial example where he might well have been actually injured. He's done a lot for us over the previous two seasons. True, he hasn't been as effective this year, but he's playing in one of the toughest leagues in the world in an incredibly average team, and he's no world beater himself. He doesn't deserve the detectable tone of vitriol in your post, especially as it's literally all based on an incredibly subjective interpretation of events. Conclusion are usually always based off of how someone is behaving in front of others is it not??? We would not come to such conclusions if we did not observe others, I mean we have to observe an individual to come up with such things. Ghazi may of put in some very good displays in the championship but why has he not been able to replicate such play in the premier. We have all had a weigh in on what we think of Drinkwater's Headbutt in training, how he should of been sent packing back to his club, what gets me here is Ghazi went one step worse in doing it in front of the world. Ghazi was not done for his actions in the slightest yet Grealish got done for stepping outside during lockdown and fined. The fact that Ghazi squared upto Mings in front of cameras showed how frustrated the man was because he made a defensive blunder. Ok it wasnt a full on headbutt but it was contact still and should of been dealt with by Smith and Co. In fact Smith should of handed Ghazi abit of ban whether we needed him or not. Ghazi's actions have been questionable on a few occasions have they not?? Yes Ghazi is human like other footballers but it doesnt excuse the fact your playing for a club and get paid a small fortune to play as a professional. From physical contact on a team mate, can't be bothered attitude, time wasting on the floor and annoying your team mates, to going off making out your injured, it does look like we have a player who's had a taste of the high life, that has learnt to bend management to his will because they are to soft. Yes sure there may of been instances where Ghazi has been injured but you go look back through this seasons games and you will see a player that looks completely different to the Ghazi from last season in the way that he is behaving on the pitch in front of fans, now that isnt my own thoughts is it?? I also certainly was not being biased since I am not comparing the bloke to anyone at all and saying anyone can do the job better, although theres no denying that there is because our Wingers have been massively a let down this season. I do think Smith is to soft on our players, I think if it was JT who was in charge he wouldn't of stood for none of it from anyone, not that im saying JT should be in charge, I'm just using it as an example. Hopefully and fingers crossed that Ghazi has collected himself and brushed off the silliness, gets his head together and we see the player he can be. If we was talking about Wesley going down on the floor to much as he has done this season you Guarentee there'd be a horde in waiting to have there say and rightly so. Ghazi though just because he has had a good championship season for us doesn't excuse him from being subject to questions as other players would be if they did something wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dave-R said: Conclusion are usually always based off of how someone is behaving in front of others is it not??? We would not come to such conclusions if we did not observe others, I mean we have to observe an individual to come up with such things. Ghazi may of put in some very good displays in the championship but why has he not been able to replicate such play in the premier. We have all had a weigh in on what we think of Drinkwater's Headbutt in training, how he should of been sent packing back to his club, what gets me here is Ghazi went one step worse in doing it in front of the world. Ghazi was not done for his actions in the slightest yet Grealish got done for stepping outside during lockdown and fined. The fact that Ghazi squared upto Mings in front of cameras showed how frustrated the man was because he made a defensive blunder. Ok it wasnt a full on headbutt but it was contact still and should of been dealt with by Smith and Co. In fact Smith should of handed Ghazi abit of ban whether we needed him or not. Ghazi's actions have been questionable on a few occasions have they not?? Yes Ghazi is human like other footballers but it doesnt excuse the fact your playing for a club and get paid a small fortune to play as a professional. From physical contact on a team mate, can't be bothered attitude, time wasting on the floor and annoying your team mates, to going off making out your injured, it does look like we have a player who's had a taste of the high life, that has learnt to bend management to his will because they are to soft. Yes sure there may of been instances where Ghazi has been injured but you go look back through this seasons games and you will see a player that looks completely different to the Ghazi from last season in the way that he is behaving on the pitch in front of fans, now that isnt my own thoughts is it?? I also certainly was not being biased since I am not comparing the bloke to anyone at all and saying anyone can do the job better, although theres no denying that there is because our Wingers have been massively a let down this season. I do think Smith is to soft on our players, I think if it was JT who was in charge he wouldn't of stood for none of it from anyone, not that im saying JT should be in charge, I'm just using it as an example. Hopefully and fingers crossed that Ghazi has collected himself and brushed off the silliness, gets his head together and we see the player he can be. If we was talking about Wesley going down on the floor to much as he has done this season you Guarentee there'd be a horde in waiting to have there say and rightly so. Ghazi though just because he has had a good championship season for us doesn't excuse him from being subject to questions as other players would be if they did something wrong. Not everyone had a weigh in on Drinkwater vs. Jota. And maybe none of us should seeing as none of us saw what happened and none of us have any idea what happened. Are you really that upset about El Ghazi leaning his head a little towards Ming's head? Apart from him looking a bit troubled this season – like our whole team does often, because we're struggling, as opposed to last year when we were big fish – your post is all hot air. There is basically no actual knowledge. You have taken some flimsy observations on body language (I take back the flimsy if you're a body language expert, but I'm going to guess you're not) and applied them to what really comes across as a very subjective interpretation that El Ghazi is bad. That seems like a bias against him to me. Personally, on this topic, I don't know anything. Like you don't know anything. But I'm not going to start making guesses about things I don't know about because I'd probably be missing a lot, and what's the point? By all means speculate, but it seems that you've drawn some very certain conclusions for yourself. Edited June 13, 2020 by Rolta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 57 minutes ago, Rolta said: Not everyone had a weigh in on Drinkwater vs. Jota. And maybe none of us should seeing as none of us saw what happened and none of us have any idea what happened. Are you really that upset about El Ghazi leaning his head a little towards Ming's head? Apart from him looking a bit troubled this season – like our whole team does often, because we're struggling, as opposed to last year when we were big fish – your post is all hot air. There is basically no actual knowledge. You have taken some flimsy observations on body language (I take back the flimsy if you're a body language expert, but I'm going to guess you're not) and applied them to what really comes across as a very subjective interpretation that El Ghazi is bad. That seems like a bias against him to me. Personally, on this topic, I don't know anything. Like you don't know anything. But I'm not going to start making guesses about things I don't know about because I'd probably be missing a lot, and what's the point? By all means speculate, but it seems that you've drawn some very certain conclusions for yourself. Body language experts are full of shit anyway. They are wrong most of the time. El Ghazi's clash of heads with mings was clearly accidental. He leaned into have a go but they were both walking so they knocked heads. Plus mings spoiled the Harry Potter books. Also with el ghazi injuries. I would prefer it if he came off if he wasn't 100% having him out on the field not fully at it does no good for us and risks an important player for a prolonged period of time. This season he has scored our 2nd most goals and got the 2nd most assists. He is arguably our 5th most important player behind Jack, Mings, Mcginn and Heaton. Also I get loads of little niggling injuries and pains which aren't serious but I'm not a professional athlete whose body is a finely tuned machine. All it takes is a little overextension and a player is out for weeks which is what happened against united right before an important run of games. Finally they reported Jorge Mendes was talking to clubs potentially about el ghazi probably not. Mendes has about a million clients many of whom will want a move to a top 5 league. The report could be bullshit but if it isn't it probably isn't even right about which player Mendes was acting for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Rolta said: Not everyone had a weigh in on Drinkwater vs. Jota. And maybe none of us should seeing as none of us saw what happened and none of us have any idea what happened. Are you really that upset about El Ghazi leaning his head a little towards Ming's head? Apart from him looking a bit troubled this season – like our whole team does often, because we're struggling, as opposed to last year when we were big fish – your post is all hot air. There is basically no actual knowledge. You have taken some flimsy observations on body language (I take back the flimsy if you're a body language expert, but I'm going to guess you're not) and applied them to what really comes across as a very subjective interpretation that El Ghazi is bad. That seems like a bias against him to me. Personally, on this topic, I don't know anything. Like you don't know anything. But I'm not going to start making guesses about things I don't know about because I'd probably be missing a lot, and what's the point? By all means speculate, but it seems that you've drawn some very certain conclusions for yourself. I could say same about your post that it is all hot air couldnt I, you do not know how I feel one bit as I'm writing, people are allowed to express themselves how they feel or as they see things. So you really think that Ghazi had no intention of head butting Mings, you must be blind. Ghazi leaned his head in then jerked his head forward again the way in which you do as you go to headbutt someone. The intent was there it just so happens and thankfully that El Ghazi didnt put much power on it, the contact was there though and no it wasn't as simple as him pushing his face up to Mings face. My time working on the doors as security you learn body language, how to diffuse situations and many other mental and physical situations that come with people and violent states. I can tell you right here in the video I'll post below that once Ghazi made his defensive error, Mings the instigator who had ago at Ghazi who then got so wound up and frustrated that he then retaliated into Mings face, a back and forth arguement occured and Ghazi went one step further by lunging his head towards Mings and raising the level of aggression once more, leaving Mings even more irritated that he had just been nutted, does that sound so biased to you?? You keep saying I'm biased against Ghazi yet you couldnt be more wrong on that and it does not take much to see where Ghazi and Mings have gone wrong in that situation. I do like Ghazi but I am not going to sit there and pretend everything is all smelling sweet as you seem to be doing with him and playing down anything you don't agree on what anyone mentions on what the bloke has done wrong. You say we don't know anything and yes in a way you are right but at the same time you are also wrong, we don't know what happens off the pitch we can only assume, but the fans have seen the way Ghazi has been this season, with himself and others in front on TV and crowds, the proof is there I'm afraid. You keep mentioning how influential Ghazi has been as well, he isnt a politician and because he has done something right for a while does not give him an automatic pass and get out of jail free card from peoples views on him good or bad. Other players have been done so harshly on these forums, the media for much less than the mistakes Ghazi has made. Ghazi has to move on from the things he's done so far this season, I do hope he can achieve it and bring himself back to being the player he was when he was hammering some goals in for us. If Ghazi keeps on being frustrated, letting everything get to him, looking so fed up, I expect him to be held accountable and punished just like any other player should be. It makes you wonder are some players running amock over management and not giving too hoots to repercussions, it could be for all we know. https://t.co/our7YJpwRu https://twitter.com/ElliotHackney/status/1173682739435966464?s=20Elliot Hackney (@ElliotHackney) Tweeted: El Ghazi and Mings arguing with each other and neither sent off. Kieron Dyer and Lee Bowyer spinning in their graves. https://t.co/our7YJpwRu https://twitter.com/ElliotHackney/status/1173682739435966464?s=20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, Dave-R said: I could say same about your post that it is all hot air couldnt I. I don't think you know what hot air is. All I said is you literally know nothing yet have judged absolutely. I know as much as you do and I know you and I know nothing. Understanding the limits of knowledge is a good place to start when making judgements on things for everyone. EDIT: I think I've come across a bit strong. Of course it's a message board and we're going to speculate and that's the point. I thought that you were talking as if you had facts when they weren't facts and that you'd built up a bit of a prejudice on things none of us really know anything about. Edited June 14, 2020 by Rolta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 He is one of our more direct players who should start against Sheffield utd. He needs to chill a bit and focus on how to beat his defender rather than getting riled up if things don't go right. I trust him more than trez or green, just got to get that focus sorted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 2 hours ago, brummybloke said: He is one of our more direct players who should start against Sheffield utd. He needs to chill a bit and focus on how to beat his defender rather than getting riled up if things don't go right. I trust him more than trez or green, just got to get that focus sorted I think he should start for us consistently but I also think that he is better as left winger. He has become a target of abuse for quite a lot of our fans due to his apparent lack of work rate. We need to stick with him, he played a key role in our promotion, he will come good 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Starts every game for me. The alternatives are dire. Think he’ll actually surprise a few when we get going again. He was more than useful in the first half of the season and I just think the return of McGinn will be infectious & will give a few more that extra motivation and desire in games. He’s a big part of this squad, just needs to add consistency and passion to his bow. Natural talent is there for all to see. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuwabatake Sanjuro Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: Starts every game for me. The alternatives are dire. Think he’ll actually surprise a few when we get going again. He was more than useful in the first half of the season and I just think the return of McGinn will be infectious & will give a few more that extra motivation and desire in games. He’s a big part of this squad, just needs to add consistency and passion to his bow. Natural talent is there for all to see. I suspect behind closed doors will be a major boost for him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 He seems to have really good levels of fitness too, this should help us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 If he had John McGinn's attitude he'd be starting for a Champions League side and probably the Dutch side as well. Lacks nothing physically or technically, lacks a lot mentally. Up to him what he wants to do with his career. Could be huge for us in this run in, just like he was in the play-off final. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 10 hours ago, Tomaszk said: If he had John McGinn's attitude he'd be starting for a Champions League side and probably the Dutch side as well. Lacks nothing physically or technically, lacks a lot mentally. Up to him what he wants to do with his career. Could be huge for us in this run in, just like he was in the play-off final. It is very hard for a winger to be consistent if el ghazi could play at his best every game we wouldn't have had a hope in signing him because he would be a 15 and 15 player. I think he struggles with defending because before coming to villa he played for ajax so he wouldnt have had to defend and played for lille in ligue 1 which isn't exactly the best league in the world either. It isn't that he doesn't work hard because when he loses the ball he tracks back but he seems to drift off an lose his man very easily. It is likely something that will come with time. But it also makes me wonder whether he should be the one to stay high up the pitch instead of our striker and have them track back so we are a bigger threat on the counter attack. He also gets regular little injuries which certainly doesn't help as they break up his good run of form. He will have 3 or 4 great games and get injured and be back to not doing much for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 hour ago, MotoMkali said: It is very hard for a winger to be consistent if el ghazi could play at his best every game we wouldn't have had a hope in signing him because he would be a 15 and 15 player. I think he struggles with defending because before coming to villa he played for ajax so he wouldnt have had to defend and played for lille in ligue 1 which isn't exactly the best league in the world either. It isn't that he doesn't work hard because when he loses the ball he tracks back but he seems to drift off an lose his man very easily. It is likely something that will come with time. But it also makes me wonder whether he should be the one to stay high up the pitch instead of our striker and have them track back so we are a bigger threat on the counter attack. He also gets regular little injuries which certainly doesn't help as they break up his good run of form. He will have 3 or 4 great games and get injured and be back to not doing much for a while. I get the feeling that the fact he puts in a half hearted attempt to defend is what makes him blow up like he did against Mings. In his mind he's doing his best and trying to defend, but not being a natural defender and (as you pointed out) probably having never had to do it consistently before in his career, means he's not very good at it. Being not very good at it, he will subconsciously be putting in less effort than when he goes forward. With decent actual coaching and a bit of time, he could be exceptional in my opinion. He does need to work on his mentality for when things aren't going his way and the club should recognise this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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