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10 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

This is nonsense. He’s having a full day 7 days off between games. Championship players play 3 games in a week a lot of the time. 

We cannot use the ‘he’s knackered’ line either as an excuse for his poor performances, nor as a stick to beat him with. 

He’s a professional footballer and I think he’s fit enough to perform the 90 mins. He’s also one of the best players at the club but looks to be struggling to understand what his role is. As mentioned in a previous post, you can’t have both him and Barkley as box to box midfielders because if both get caught too high up the pitch, we’re f*****. Especially as our full backs like to get forward.

If we want to play McGinn in an advanced role, he either has to be playing on the right of a front 3 instead of Traore/Trezeguet or in place of Barkley with either Barkley playing deeper or dropping to the bench. 

McGinn is a good player but he looks lost in the role he’s being asked to play at times. 

As much as I like Smith and want him to be here the next ten years, he needs to sort this midfield 3 out because it’s killing us at the moment in games. With a slight tweak, I think we can be much better and challenge for a top 8 spot. 

He was excellent until Scotland's played him for 300 minutes in 8 days. It's a good theory. Same thing happened last season.

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31 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

He was excellent until Scotland's played him for 300 minutes in 8 days. It's a good theory. Same thing happened last season.

Ok, that's fine. But if a player can't handle being able to go away and play matches for the national team and then come back and perform in matches 7 days apart in the Premier League then you have to seriously question that players fitness. 
I'm sorry, he's a professional footballer and whilst everyone gets tired, he's performing at an elite level so he needs to increase his fitness levels. 

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I don't think there is a big problem with fitness necessarily although that side can always be improved. The main problem is that we've lost control of the last two games and whatever tactic Dean set out at the start was either flawed or not carried out by the players. So when the goals start flying in its headless chicken mode and when that happens you cease to be efficient with your energy. You've lost control it looks bad. Somehow Dean needs to learn how to regain control and composure when things go wrong. 

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3 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

Ok, that's fine. But if a player can't handle being able to go away and play matches for the national team and then come back and perform in matches 7 days apart in the Premier League then you have to seriously question that players fitness. 
I'm sorry, he's a professional footballer and whilst everyone gets tired, he's performing at an elite level so he needs to increase his fitness levels. 

It isn't about his fitness levels. It is about everyone else's. If you leave everything out on the pitch like him you will experience micro-tears and the like which eat into your performances and with a large number of games in short succession (I think) 5 in 15 days with him playing 100+ minutes in each of them no wonder he is shattered. That isn't just physically tiring but mentally too. Then he is playing against players who are 100% in mind and body and he is being out competed. 

Basketball ended 4 games in 5 days despite the best players only playing 36~ minutes a night because it results in poorer performances and injuries.

We need to give mcginn a rest. It happened last season and in the championship where his performances dropped after either the international break or a long run of games in quick succession.

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8 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

Ok, that's fine. But if a player can't handle being able to go away and play matches for the national team and then come back and perform in matches 7 days apart in the Premier League then you have to seriously question that players fitness. 
I'm sorry, he's a professional footballer and whilst everyone gets tired, he's performing at an elite level so he needs to increase his fitness levels. 

Have to factor in lack of pre season. Look at amount of muscle injuries happening in premier league already this season. We've been pretty lucky so far with injuries but they will come (hopefully not as serious as the ones we got last season) so we need to be careful managing minutes for players.

Probably one of the few on here that would've continued with the 5 sub rule.

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1 minute ago, VillaChris said:

Have to factor in lack of pre season. Look at amount of muscle injuries happening in premier league already this season. We've been pretty lucky so far with injuries but they will come (hopefully not as serious as the ones we got last season) so we need to be careful managing minutes for players.

Probably one of the few on here that would've continued with the 5 sub rule.

Me too Klopp was right. 

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16 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Have to factor in lack of pre season. Look at amount of muscle injuries happening in premier league already this season. We've been pretty lucky so far with injuries but they will come (hopefully not as serious as the ones we got last season) so we need to be careful managing minutes for players.

Probably one of the few on here that would've continued with the 5 sub rule.

But Smith only uses 1-2 in each game anyway.

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16 hours ago, momo said:

But Smith only uses 1-2 in each game anyway.

Very true. Part of me thinks it is justified given the lack of quality on the bench. But in a dead rubber or where we're significantly behind already (such as those games against Leeds or Southampton) he needs to be making changes earlier and more regularly.

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1 hour ago, MrBlack said:

Very true. Part of me thinks it is justified given the lack of quality on the bench. But in a dead rubber or where we're significantly behind already (such as those games against Leeds or Southampton) he needs to be making changes earlier and more regularly.

What lack of quality? Hourihane. Literally 3rd on the pegaue in xA/90 last season. Always a massive threat from set pieces.

Nakamba had good to great defensive stats last season not great amazing passer but had a percentage than Luiz. 

Elmo/Guilbert both reasonably solid full backs who are serviceable for the premier league.

Traore/Trez Traore has an excellent goal scoring record in other countries albeit not off the bench. And Trez has a mad press and consistently pops up at the back post with great shit attempts. 

El Ghazi/Davis El ghazi got 4 goals and 5 assists last season. Yes he should have had more goals but he should have also had more assists if anyone on the team could finish. Would like to see him play with watkins. Davis good at holding the ball up and a battering ram. If he isn't being relied on as the main striker/scorer he could be a very useful player.

Engels/Hause both played key minutes for us last season and whilst they are downgrades on the other 2 cbs they are alright and we haven't seen huase in position with Luiz working well and we haven't seen engels on the pitch at all. 

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On 03/11/2020 at 14:42, Delphinho123 said:

McGinn is a good player but he looks lost in the role he’s being asked to play at times.  

He didn't look very lost playing in that role against Liverpool??  He was one of the best players on the pitch.  I think he is a natural "8" and looked more lost playing as the most advanced/a "10" with CH sitting/playing "8" before Barkley arrived.

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2 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

What lack of quality? Hourihane. Literally 3rd on the pegaue in xA/90 last season. Always a massive threat from set pieces.

Nakamba had good to great defensive stats last season not great amazing passer but had a percentage than Luiz. 

Elmo/Guilbert both reasonably solid full backs who are serviceable for the premier league.

Traore/Trez Traore has an excellent goal scoring record in other countries albeit not off the bench. And Trez has a mad press and consistently pops up at the back post with great shit attempts. 

El Ghazi/Davis El ghazi got 4 goals and 5 assists last season. Yes he should have had more goals but he should have also had more assists if anyone on the team could finish. Would like to see him play with watkins. Davis good at holding the ball up and a battering ram. If he isn't being relied on as the main striker/scorer he could be a very useful player.

Engels/Hause both played key minutes for us last season and whilst they are downgrades on the other 2 cbs they are alright and we haven't seen huase in position with Luiz working well and we haven't seen engels on the pitch at all. 

I don't disagree with any of your comments there, but I don't see them as better than what is on the pitch.  They would need to be on top of their game to be better than the first 11 having an average day. My point is when any of the first 11 are having a bad day, then the bench has to be used and be used early and hope they are up for the fight.  None of them are particularly game changers.

It isn't a high quality bench in my view, but it is better than sticking with the 11 on the pitch if they're not putting in a performance.

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3 hours ago, MrBlack said:

Very true. Part of me thinks it is justified given the lack of quality on the bench. But in a dead rubber or where we're significantly behind already (such as those games against Leeds or Southampton) he needs to be making changes earlier and more regularly.

Oh yeah, I remember the Southampton game. The one where we lost by one goal?

It's definitely quality on the bench. We have nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Edited by Tomaszk
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Its not secret that I'm a big fan of Conor, I think he provides something unique that our first 11 doesn't despite his clear deficiencies. 

Nakamba can't pass or possibly do anything else footballing related well, but he can tackle and he can intercept. I believe he was one of the highest in the league last season in these statistics.

Hause is an absolute monster in the air even if he's bad at directing those headers and is the worst passer of any of our defenders

I can't really say much bad about Engels. I think he's more than capable as cover for us if he isn't injured. There was a reason he was first choice for us along with Mings at the start of last season and I remember lots of people feeling very optimistic about this partnership. The only bad game I remember him having for us was against Leicester.

Elmo is arguably one of the best crossers of the ball in the PL. He's just a bit old and lacks some pace.

Davis has all the attributes of a striker aside from finishing.

And Traore was a 19mil pound signing from Lyon and had some decent stats whilst he was with them.

 

Many of the players on our bench have some clear deficiencies in their play, that's why they're on the bench. But they also have their strengths, strengths that have at varying times become valuable to us during the course of last season. I don't think we should expect to have several gamechangers on our bench, we're a team that finished 17th last season for god's sake, we shouldn't expect to have that luxury. But I do think the players on the bench can provide value to the team, as they have done so in the past when called upon. They're not worthless is what I'm saying, and we should call upon them more if we need to.

Edited by Laughable Chimp
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5 hours ago, barry'sboots said:

He didn't look very lost playing in that role against Liverpool??  He was one of the best players on the pitch.  I think he is a natural "8" and looked more lost playing as the most advanced/a "10" with CH sitting/playing "8" before Barkley arrived.

He played deeper against Liverpool. His role was to break up play and launch us on the counter. Against Leeds and southampton be wasn't doing that and if he isn't doing that he doesn't offer much else. 

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3 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Its not secret that I'm a big fan of Conor, I think he provides something unique that our first 11 doesn't despite his clear deficiencies. 

Nakamba can't pass or possibly do anything else footballing related well, but he can tackle and he can intercept. I believe he was one of the highest in the league last season in these statistics.

Hause is an absolute monster in the air even if he's bad at directing those headers and is the worst passer of any of our defenders

I can't really say much bad about Engels. I think he's more than capable as cover for us if he isn't injured. There was a reason he was first choice for us along with Mings at the start of last season and I remember lots of people feeling very optimistic about this partnership. The only bad game I remember him having for us was against Leicester.

Elmo is arguably one of the best crossers of the ball in the PL. He's just a bit old and lacks some pace.

Davis has all the attributes of a striker aside from finishing.

And Traore was a 19mil pound signing from Lyon and had some decent stats whilst he was with them.

 

Many of the players on our bench have some clear deficiencies in their play, that's why they're on the bench. But they also have their strengths, strengths that have at varying times become valuable to us during the course of last season. I don't think we should expect to have several gamechangers on our bench, we're a team that finished 17th last season for god's sake, we shouldn't expect to have that luxury. But I do think the players on the bench can provide value to the team, as they have done so in the past when called upon. They're not worthless is what I'm saying, and we should call upon them more if we need to.

Agreed,  if only to prevent burnout for our preferred first 11. But when it isn't just that it looks concerning why so few subs get made and when they do its late in the game (injuries aside).  Smith may well be moving towards making more/ earlier subs as the season wears on, but I feel the time is now to start that process. Especially after consecutive defeats,  albeit the latest one where we actually looked lively towards the end of the game.

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4 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Oh yeah, I remember the Southampton game. The one where we lost by one goal?

It's definitely quality on the bench. We have nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Some of your views are alright this one is terrible though. We have specialist players on the bench and they cna help us in different situations. We were chasing the game so why didn't we bring on hourihane. He creates loads of chances with his set pieces. He makes it harder to put a foul in on jack because he can play a great ball.

Against a team where we are winning and it is close nakamba can do a job. Hause is one of the best players ata winning the ball in the air in the world. Yes he needs to improve the direction and his passing but he is useful against a lot of teams.

Engels was a solid cb when fit. 

Davis foot everything but finishing. If we aren't expecting him to score he is a great sub option. If watkins or grealish are on the pitch he can get the ball to them. He doesn't have to finish it himself.

Elmo, Guilbert both solid - good premier league right backs. Elmo is a very good crosser. And guilbert is very good defensively and his overlapping makes him a threat even if he has no end product as it creates space for others. 

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