The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[maqroll]

2 minutes ago, Villaphan04 said:

 

Or CMAO.

When VAR starts costing clubs money it will be scrapped. Total shambles.

[NeilS]

You just know that if that had been Fernandes in a Utd shirt that would never have been overturned!

 

The last line from Peter Walton that I have quoted below sums up how I understood VAR worked.

 

Peter Walton's view on the non Penalty

Aston Villa were awarded a penalty in stoppage time of their match against Brighton on Saturday.

Then it was overturned by VAR after Michael Oliver consulted his pitchside screen.

 

Brighton clinched a 2-1 victory, and in the Times, former Premier League ref Peter Walton gave his verdict on the incident.

He felt the decision to award Villa the penalty should have been upheld, citing the absence of any clear and obvious error.

“It is commendable that referees are going to look at their monitors. That is a huge positive though there is still a lot of misunderstanding about how VAR should operate.

“The (incident was) hugely subjective. Why, then, (was) Michael Oliver told to consult the monitor? VAR should intervene only if the referee has made a clear error. (He) should have stuck with the original decision.

“Solly March got a touch of the ball but followed through heavily and caught Trézéguet on the shin. Anywhere else, that’s a free kick. There was certainly not convincing evidence to show that Oliver had made a howler.”

 

 

[rjw63]

1 hour ago, NeilS said:

You just know that if that had been Fernandes in a Utd shirt that would never have been overturned!

 

The last line from Peter Walton that I have quoted below sums up how I understood VAR worked.

 

Peter Walton's view on the non Penalty

Aston Villa were awarded a penalty in stoppage time of their match against Brighton on Saturday.

Then it was overturned by VAR after Michael Oliver consulted his pitchside screen.

 

Brighton clinched a 2-1 victory, and in the Times, former Premier League ref Peter Walton gave his verdict on the incident.

He felt the decision to award Villa the penalty should have been upheld, citing the absence of any clear and obvious error.

“It is commendable that referees are going to look at their monitors. That is a huge positive though there is still a lot of misunderstanding about how VAR should operate.

“The (incident was) hugely subjective. Why, then, (was) Michael Oliver told to consult the monitor? VAR should intervene only if the referee has made a clear error. (He) should have stuck with the original decision.

“Solly March got a touch of the ball but followed through heavily and caught Trézéguet on the shin. Anywhere else, that’s a free kick. There was certainly not convincing evidence to show that Oliver had made a howler.”

 

 

Need an "angry" emoticon for this.

[Mantis]

19 hours ago, Genie said:

I was chatting to my neighbour across the lawn this afternoon. He’s had a ST at Villa for at least 10 years, could be a lot longer. 
We discussed VAR and he said he’s considering not bothering renewing his ST because of it. He was saying if you can’t celebrate a goal or even a last minute penalty and go crazy then there isn’t much point being there. You have to pause and wait, then the moment has gone. 
I can completely see his point. ST’s are expensive and also a big time commitment. If a big part of the being in the ground experienced is robbed then why bother.

And the fact that just as many mistakes are being made as before really adds insult to injury. The whole situation is farcical.

[Zatman]

Ashley Young kicked a Torino player in the chest for a penalty yesterday yet took such a delay to go to VAR that Inter were preparing a shot from a free kick on the edge of Torinos box 

[darrenm]

I was dubious about VAR at the start because it was always obvious that even after hours of watching slow motion replays of an incident, people still can't agree. So I'm not sure what problem VAR was supposed to be solving, because it certainly can't be used to decide tight or subjective calls. 

In fact, the best decisions seem to be the ones made in real time speed at the time. Once you slow things down they start to look different.

The only justification I can see for VAR is an off the ball incident which the ref or assistant refs didn't see. Or perhaps if the ref has got something completely and utterly wrong. Maybe intervene for something that's a 'clear and obvious error'.

Oh.

[Keyblade]

Just scrap it. I can accept human error during a fast paced game in real time if the alternative is human error after watching a slowed down replay for 5 minutes.

[S-Platt]

I am still pissed off about Saturday and I have not heard anyone say its not a pen other than that clearing in the woods Dermot Gallagher who thinks the refs always get it right!!

So you give a pen the only decision to make when looking at the monitor is was there contact or did he dive.  So book him for diving or the penalty stands.  Neither happens the ball is given back to Brighton from a drop ball????? We were attacking where is the fairness in that? 

The whole thing is a joke and has to be scrapped.

Clear and obvious error they said!  Like Maradonas handball or Henry's against Eire.  Its just nitpicking over stupid things now and getting worse.

[maqroll]

Prem owners should convene an emergency meeting to start the process of fixing VAR, or scrapping it entirely.

I'll say it again, if they are going to use video replay, they should do it the NFL way. One manager's challenge per half. 

[lammy123]

The real problem is sh*t referees are sh*t referees whether they are on their own in the middle of the pitch, in a group in a van somewhere or looking at a monitor.  

At least it is palatable when they are making decisions in real time and there is that aspect of error due to the pace of the game.

VAR doesn't get to the route of the problem, yes there are ways that it could be improved eg.  Challenges like in cricket/tennis and increasing visibility like publishing the audio etc. 

However the whole structure of refereeing needs looking at, from where new young referees are attracted from, the route of progression and on going improvement.  But them changing things would be like Turkey's voting for Christmas.

[villa4europe]

38 minutes ago, maqroll said:

Prem owners should convene an emergency meeting to start the process of fixing VAR, or scrapping it entirely.

I'll say it again, if they are going to use video replay, they should do it the NFL way. One manager's challenge per half. 

FIFA have demanded it haven't they? 

Review of how they're all **** it up 

[Genie]

1 hour ago, S-Platt said:

I am still pissed off about Saturday and I have not heard anyone say its not a pen other than that clearing in the woods Dermot Gallagher who thinks the refs always get it right!!

Me too. If there was no VAR and the ref waved it away at the time I’d have got over it as a football incident. The ref has to make a split second decision.
Its the fact he gave it. Then VAR didn’t make a decision. He looks on the monitor and then changes his mind for a reason that doesn’t make much sense to anyone. It’s infuriating.

[Keyblade]

1 hour ago, lammy123 said:

The real problem is sh*t referees are sh*t referees whether they are on their own in the middle of the pitch, in a group in a van somewhere or looking at a monitor.  

At least it is palatable when they are making decisions in real time and there is that aspect of error due to the pace of the game.

VAR doesn't get to the route of the problem, yes there are ways that it could be improved eg.  Challenges like in cricket/tennis and increasing visibility like publishing the audio etc. 

However the whole structure of refereeing needs looking at, from where new young referees are attracted from, the route of progression and on going improvement.  But them changing things would be like Turkey's voting for Christmas.

Either way we'll always end up with shit officials, and until something is done about that, the game is always going to be broken. 

Bringing in VAR assumed the refs were doing a good job and were simply limited to what their human eye could perceive in real time. It's ended up just being a tiny band-aid on a giant gaping wound. 

[Keyblade]

3 hours ago, darrenm said:

I was dubious about VAR at the start because it was always obvious that even after hours of watching slow motion replays of an incident, people still can't agree. So I'm not sure what problem VAR was supposed to be solving, because it certainly can't be used to decide tight or subjective calls. 

In fact, the best decisions seem to be the ones made in real time speed at the time. Once you slow things down they start to look different.

The only justification I can see for VAR is an off the ball incident which the ref or assistant refs didn't see. Or perhaps if the ref has got something completely and utterly wrong. Maybe intervene for something that's a 'clear and obvious error'.

Oh.

I was watching the Weekend Review PL programme, and they all agreed it was a penalty after watching the replay. According to the host, he didn't even make contact. At least Dion Dublin noted the shin to shin contact.

Their reasoning was he got "enough" of the ball. Look, it went on a 90 degree trajectory! Anywhere on the pitch, that's a foul. Compared to the Gallagher incident in the WBA game which they thought was a pen incidentally.

[turvontour]

On 22/11/2020 at 18:15, Genie said:

I was chatting to my neighbour across the lawn this afternoon. He’s had a ST at Villa for at least 10 years, could be a lot longer. 
We discussed VAR and he said he’s considering not bothering renewing his ST because of it. He was saying if you can’t celebrate a goal or even a last minute penalty and go crazy then there isn’t much point being there. You have to pause and wait, then the moment has gone. 
I can completely see his point. ST’s are expensive and also a big time commitment. If a big part of the being in the ground experienced is robbed then why bother.

Was watching the game at home on Saturday and my missus said to me when Konsa scored, why aren't you cheering. I said you dont know if it's a goal yet. Equally I didnt show any emotion when the penalty was awarded. When the other team kicks off is when you can properly celebrate.

[Genie]

1 minute ago, turvontour said:

When the other team kicks off is when you can properly celebrate

But by then the moment has gone 

[PaulC]

Nobody cares what the supporters think. VAR has showed just how awful the refs are in this country. Don't think its as bad in other main league. 

[lammy123]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

Either way we'll always end up with shit officials, and until something is done about that, the game is always going to be broken. 

Bringing in VAR assumed the refs were doing a good job and were simply limited to what their human eye could perceive in real time. It's ended up just being a tiny band-aid on a giant gaping wound. 

I agree something needs to be done.

It starts at grass roots refereeing.  There needs to be a push to get people into refereeing that have a better fundamental understanding of how the game is played.

In general the kids who start to do more refereeing are the ones that aren't quite good enough to play, so ref more.  Then to progress you have to brown nose the 'more experienced' refs that asses you and help you move through the leagues.  It's about towing the line, being chums with them, selling the most raffle tickets for xmas party and going with the missus.  They discuss why they were right not how they can do things better.  It's no wonder the quality is sh*te.

If there were a referees academy that picked up... slightly older kids eg. that didn't quite get pro contracts but had played to a higher level, pros from lower leagues and/or players who had retired early etc and put them I through the exam and had a path to high level refereeing, then they're might be hope.   It would mean refs knew a little more about playing, may be able to keep up with the pace of the game, and it break up the current status quo.

I would need support from the leagues and the current PGMOL and RA would be right royally pissed off but unless someone challenges them were fubar'd forever.

[bannedfromHandV]

On 23/11/2020 at 16:55, Keyblade said:

Just scrap it. I can accept human error during a fast paced game in real time if the alternative is human error after watching a slowed down replay for 5 minutes.

It’s opinions.

I don’t actually think it was a penalty, wouldn’t have stopped me celebrating had we scored the penalty and earned a point.

And therein lies the problem (and which I’ve said from the outset of this entire process), two people will take two entirely opposing views of the same situation and neither one are potentially right or wrong, it just comes down to a split second call and that’s the way it should be.

I do think there’s a place for VAR, I will admit that I’ve come round to that thinking at least. But i think it should be that the 4th official at the game (not miles away, wherever VAR is based) gets a window of say 1 minute to review replays pitchside, with no silly lines drawn on the screen, to see if there is a clear and obvious error, if you can see it in a minute with say, 3-5 replay angles then it’s clear and obvious, the minute you start drawing lines or spending 3 or 4 minutes on it should by default show it’s not clear and it’s not obvious.

[PussEKatt]

On 24/11/2020 at 00:55, Keyblade said:

Just scrap it. I can accept human error during a fast paced game in real time if the alternative is human error after watching a slowed down replay for 5 minutes.

I hate VAR.Its taking all the passion out of the game.Who wants to celebrate a goal 3 minutes after it was scored FFS.You might as well record the game,watch it the next day and when a goal is scored you can fast forward it and celebrate after only 1 minute.

If VAR is so good why dont they use it to tell us if that was a goal for England in the world cup final at Wembly ????