Dodgyknees Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: The Tories are bad ideas galore, from energy market price caps on SVTs (in fairness this is a bad idea shared by a number of parties), to the dementia tax, to scrapping free schools meals, it seems to me that they have totally lost control. Probably realised how hard the EU talks with be, ao wabt to get out if power lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 21, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, DK82 said: Probably realised how hard the EU talks with be, ao wabt to get out if power lol. I think it's more they've realised that this is a golden opportunity to be real evil bastards and get exactly what they want so have been particularly brazen about it. The thing I'll struggle with is just how many morons will happily let them and think they're doing themselves a favour. Edited May 21, 2017 by Chindie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Chindie said: I think it's more they've realised that is a golden opportunity to be real evil bastards and get exactly what they want so have been particularly brazen about it. The thing I'll struggle with is just got many morons will happily let them and think they're doing themselves a favour. Yep. I've seen many video which makes me want to jump off a cliff, turkeys voting for Christmas. People treat it like a football match, voting for the one they think will win and then wonder why they have no money, no healthcare, no school places for their kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Frustratingly, I am unable to talk politics on twitter. I have two accounts (both linked to me) one personal and one business. My job is closely linked to politics and I can't align with any party as I have to work across them all, on all sides. Being silent on twitter is **** hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 18 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: This dementia tax is bloody inhumaine. Theresa May **** you, disgusting you witch introducing something so vile. I am surprised that a socialist would disagree with this because it certainly would level the playing field as regards social mobility. For the exact same reason Tory voters will hate it. The granny farm industry would like it because there would be a lot more people paying the full whack, rather than the few who now pay subsidising those dependent on meagre local authority tariffs. This is more evidence of Tory hubris - they withdrew the NI rise because of the objections and then introduce a whole bunch of stuff which is far worse. They are clearly effing idiots. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: it certainly would level the playing field as regards social mobility. You'll have to explain that one to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, darrenm said: You'll have to explain that one to me If everyone stops paying when they get down to their last £100k, then those with the most assets will pay a lot more and will have less to leave to their kids/grandkids, who will enjoy less of a head start in the rat race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted May 21, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: If everyone stops paying when they get down to their last £100k, then those with the most assets will pay a lot more and will have less to leave to their kids/grandkids, who will enjoy less of a head start in the rat race. Sorry but there are a few flaws in this theory. 1. It assumes that people won't be wealthy enough to either ensure their assists are protected from this or that they can't fund private care 2. It assumes that those who don't do either of the above will spend the rest of their estate on 'state' care leaving only 100k This policy is to social mobility what Jeremy Hunt is to the NHS. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 31 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: I am surprised that a socialist would disagree with this because it certainly would level the playing field as regards social mobility. For the exact same reason Tory voters will hate it. The granny farm industry would like it because there would be a lot more people paying the full whack, rather than the few who now pay subsidising those dependent on meagre local authority tariffs. This is more evidence of Tory hubris - they withdrew the NI rise because of the objections and then introduce a whole bunch of stuff which is far worse. They are clearly effing idiots. I voted conservative for the last two elections, but even I can't defend this. It's despicable and unless they remove it from their manifesto I won't be voting them. From a manifesto point of view I think I am for the first time ever voting lib dems, although it won't make any difference as it's usually a labour safe seat in my local area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) 25 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Sorry but there are a few flaws in this theory. 1. It assumes that people won't be wealthy enough to either ensure their assists are protected from this or that they can't fund private care 2. It assumes that those who don't do either of the above will spend the rest of their estate on 'state' care leaving only 100k This policy is to social mobility what Jeremy Hunt is to the NHS. Yes its not going to hurt the rich guys just the ordinary householders. I don't agree with it but we have an ever increasing ageing population and money has to come from somewhere. On the other hand Labour are set to raise inheritance tax, so its swings and roundabouts. I have moved in with my elderly mom to be her carer. if I hadn't she would now be in a care home. So that would be something like £40k a year out of her savings. My mom and late dad worked hard all their life and paid their taxes so I don't think their money should be taxed again once they die. It should be their choice who it is left to. Edited May 21, 2017 by PaulC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post PompeyVillan Posted May 21, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2017 Whether the polls are right or wrong, Theresa May is clearly on the back foot. Up until now she's managed to keep the agenda firmly on Brexit, where she is popular. But there is only so many times that she can talk about a mandate to negotiate until even the casual observer will ask, "What else?" It's no surprise that when the nuts and bolts of policy are being discussed that she's floundering. Let's hope she's destroying that landslide she wanted. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post markavfc40 Posted May 21, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Chindie said: I think it's more they've realised that this is a golden opportunity to be real evil bastards and get exactly what they want so have been particularly brazen about it. The thing I'll struggle with is just how many morons will happily let them and think they're doing themselves a favour. I think they feel overly confident that basing the whole reason for calling a general election around Brexit, by shifting further to the right and clearly looking to hoover up UKIP voters, which could well be working, that off the back of that they can get away with murder in other areas. I do wonder how gullible, putting it nicely, or how thick putting it bluntly, you'd have to be to let them get away with this bollocks. Brexit is a big issue but bigger than the combined issues of the NHS, social care, welfare state, education, the increasing divide between the haves and haves not's. Not a chance. I think slowly but surely this rhetoric of strong and stable all about Brexit bullshit is unfolding. It won't have time to unfold completely and Labour unfortunately are not strong enough to take advantage but it should at least not allow the Tories to get the landslide May called this election to get. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicho Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Chindie said: I think it's more they've realised that this is a golden opportunity to be real evil bastards and get exactly what they want so have been particularly brazen about it. The thing I'll struggle with is just how many morons will happily let them and think they're doing themselves a favour. I was just going to write something similar. I feel a lot of people will vote for her as they feel "she is hard on the EU and a good leader" and not know that they are going to be bent over by the Tories. Unfortunately and this is a generalisation, alot of people who would benefit from Labour policies are the exact people who blame imigrants, are on benefits and voted to leave the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 As many posts have stated before me I have to agree with what people are saying about May. She's got one card up her sleeve and that is brexit. It's becoming silly how she can't actually talk cohesively about anything else. We're used to the Conservatives having good debaters at the front, with Cameron being a great example. Now we have Corbyn who has the most anemic front bench in Labour history and Theresa may who can't say anything else than "Strong, brexit, together, negotiations" etc. As Demitri above me I will probably have to go Lib Dem in this election, because I just can't stand any of the two larger parties. Sadly where I live in Hampshire the conservatives have a roughly 55% polling rate, with the Lib Dems coming in around 25%. It'll take a hell of a lot of Theresa May bumbling on TV to make one of the poshest towns in England vote any differently. But I guess people said the same about Glasgow for Labour - I want to believe! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 I don't understand the Tory strategy. why go after the largest voting demographic? Who would lean more conservative? Anecdotally I know of a few over 60s who have been Tory voters all their lives but they're so turned off by May and the Tory policies. They make Labour look stunningly competent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: Anecdotally I know of a few over 60s who have been Tory voters all their lives but they're so turned off by May and the Tory policies. My Dad has voted tory all his life and even he said last night they are shit. I think that is one vote they have lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 57 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: I think they feel overly confident that basing the whole reason for calling a general election around Brexit, by shifting further to the right and clearly looking to hoover up UKIP voters, which could well be working, that off the back of that they can get away with murder in other areas. I do wonder how gullible, putting it nicely, or how thick putting it bluntly, you'd have to be to let them get away with this bollocks. Brexit is a big issue but bigger than the combined issues of the NHS, social care, welfare state, education, the increasing divide between the haves and haves not's. Not a chance. I think slowly but surely this rhetoric of strong and stable all about Brexit bullshit is unfolding. It won't have time to unfold completely and Labour unfortunately are not strong enough to take advantage but it should at least not allow the Tories to get the landslide May called this election to get. If they (Labour) had 6 more months, I reckon they could do it, even with JC in charge. It feels as though the tide might be turning, but too little too late unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 21, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 21, 2017 52 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: I think they feel overly confident that basing the whole reason for calling a general election around Brexit, by shifting further to the right and clearly looking to hoover up UKIP voters, which could well be working, that off the back of that they can get away with murder in other areas. I do wonder how gullible, putting it nicely, or how thick putting it bluntly, you'd have to be to let them get away with this bollocks. Brexit is a big issue but bigger than the combined issues of the NHS, social care, welfare state, education, the increasing divide between the haves and haves not's. Not a chance. I think slowly but surely this rhetoric of strong and stable all about Brexit bullshit is unfolding. It won't have time to unfold completely and Labour unfortunately are not strong enough to take advantage but it should at least not allow the Tories to get the landslide May called this election to get. I mostly agree, but I can't help feeling that they're not quite doing all that you say. Because with essentially nicking a load of last time's Labour policies, they're also moving to the left. It seems counter intuitive to say they're moving left, but in some areas they are. I think really they're trying to reverse time and go back to a different set of philosophies/trying to appeal to a set of people that aren't as they're portrayed. The stuff about capping energy prices, no longer promising to get rid of the deficit any time soon, promising more money for the NHS (yeah, I know...) stuff like that is what Labour promised last time. Then immigration, Grammar schools, internet censoring, defence - these are the kind of things that are kind of old school tory things - plenty of normal people like those things, for better or worse. Even this dementia tax kind of thing is sort of a leftish thing - get people with assets to pay for their care, before the state puts it's hand in it's pocket - it might be a dog's dinner of a proposal, but there's a leftish side to it (ignoring the underlying nod to insurance companies etc.). They're not right wing on a lot of stuff that relates to money, but they are socially conservative, I guess. I don't know if that's because they're a bunch of cynical bastards (well I do, they are), or if it's a reflection of nasty T.May's outlook on life. It's like go after UKIP voters by talking about immigration and go after Labour votes by energy price caps etc. They can't actually believe all that stuff, but they are pretending to, for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 What gets me most, is that Theresa May had an absurdly strong hand going into this election, and she's ballsing it up big time. We're meant to be believe she'll get the best possible deal for the UK post Brexit? This time with a weak hand? Galling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 She's shit scared of interaction. He's batting her out the park now they're having to follow his daily exploits. Dacre will be flogging his stokers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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