snowychap Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 12 minutes ago, magnkarl said: my mother is in dementia care His mother is in a residential care home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Just now, snowychap said: His mother is in a residential care home? From what I gathered she is in residential a state home where they have one floor designated for dementia care. His words were that he comes from close to Lillehammer (fun, right?) where they have everything in one building, and once your parent has to have residential care they will need to fund 80-90% of it through their pensions/estate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, magnkarl said: From what I gathered she is in residential a state home where they have one floor designated for dementia care. His words were that he comes from close to Lillehammer (fun, right?) where they have everything in one building, and once your parent has to have residential care they will need to fund 80-90% of it through their pensions/estate. That sounds pretty much what it is here currently for people in a care home/nursing home/care home with dementia care. Edit: More details on funding for permanent residential care can be found here on Age UK's website. Quote Lots of people worry about paying for care for themselves or for a loved one. Most people will be expected to pay something towards the costs. Edited May 20, 2017 by snowychap Edited for different types of home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 12 minutes ago, snowychap said: That sounds pretty much what it is here currently for people in a care home/nursing home/care home with dementia care. Edit: More details on funding for permanent residential care can be found here on Age UK's website. Alright, I must admit that I haven't quite followed the debate on this. Some clarity on what the conservatives are suggesting to be changed compared to what it currently is would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Alright, I must admit that I haven't quite followed the debate on this. Some clarity on what the conservatives are suggesting to be changed compared to what it currently is would be great. Some clarity from the Tories themselves would be great - there are only three short paragraphs in their manifesto that cover it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted May 20, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 20, 2017 Did anybody hear the shadow defence secretary (name escapes me) on R4 this morning? He was being interviewed over this Labour inconsistency over Trident. He actually conceded - twice! - that Labour would lose the election. First he said "The Tory goverment will have to [blah blah] after the election", and then "We will be in opposition, and must be as strong an opposition as possible". Amazingly, the interviewer didn't seem to notice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted May 20, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 20, 2017 2 hours ago, mjmooney said: Whereas Blair & co ruined "my" Labour (the socialist party of 1945-1997), and turned it into something had NEVER been - Tories lite. Corbyn has given me my party back - and the electorate finally has a genuine choice, if it can manage to resist the onslaught of right wing propaganda from the mass media. A party in opposition as opposed to power. New Labour for its faults at least could do some good, new Old Labour is simply pissing in the wind. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 20, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 20, 2017 23 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: A party in opposition as opposed to power. New Labour for its faults at least could do some good, new Old Labour is simply pissing in the wind. Totally, and one of the biggest flaws of New Labour was timidity. They did really well every time they were bold, or almost every time they were bold. When they kind of timidly followed what had gone before, but just a bit less nasty, then that's where they copped the flack. The minimum wage, independent BoE, Sure Start, Third World debt cancellations, Kosovo, Sierra Leone, Better relations with the EU (compared to Thatcher, or any tory gov't), basically modernising britain and making things better. Iraq, PFI not so good. I don't think "New Labour" was really any different from "Labour" other than a bit of a re-brand in order to appeal more widely and get the chance to govern. What Kinnock started in in clearing out the Hattonites, communists and SWP types was carried on and it left a, er, leftish party which made things much better for the country, overall. The flaw was Blair getting a messiah complex and the lying and deceit over Iraq. If someone could work out how to stop the impractical/illogical side of Corbyn's policies and focus more on the practical, popular, fairer side - to take away the "that's just financially illiterate" aspect then that would be the perfect match, for me. As you say it's all very well having socialist principles, but if you can't get into power, or if when you get in to power your bonkers ideas scupper you, then you're failing everyone. And sadly that's Corbyn's version of Labour. It means all the good stuff will never get done. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 20, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 20, 2017 2 hours ago, mjmooney said: the electorate finally has a genuine choice Between two buckets of differently coloured poo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Yep @blandy pretty much agree with every word of that. Just as a talking point though would New Labour have won without Scotland? I know 97 was a landslide but would an SNP party winning the kind of number of seats they do now have scuppered them. What I'm trying to say is does the third way still work numbers wise now the SNP are so strong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 37 minutes ago, blandy said: Between two buckets of differently coloured poo. I am very much with Lao-Tzu when it comes to politics - in most areas inaction seems to be the most appropriate, and in other areas tweaking would be better than big action. If Education is not working you tweak it you don't build academies and when hospitals struggle the answer is not to move the problems to a super-hospital etc. Both manifestos involve big actions and promise results that none of the protagonists look capable of delivering. Both result in an expansion of the state, just when Brexit will mean that there will be an increased workload, while politics has become increasingly a part-time job (leave it to Brussels). Big actions deplete budgets, give only the illusion of progress, and they just create a whole new bunch of problems, usually more difficult to solve than the ones they replaced. Politics is fundamentally fecal, in the bucket or out of it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 20, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 20, 2017 1 hour ago, villaglint said: What I'm trying to say is does the third way still work numbers wise now the SNP are so strong? Good point. I think if there was less tribalism and more co-operation then it could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 20, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 20, 2017 1 hour ago, villaglint said: What I'm trying to say is does the third way still work numbers wise now the SNP are so strong? The SNP wouldn't have been so strong 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted May 20, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 20, 2017 35 minutes ago, bickster said: The SNP wouldn't have been so strong Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 2 hours ago, blandy said: Iraq, PFI not so good. Erm add in the authoritarianism and managerialism (terrorism laws, ASBOs, increase in numbers of criminal offences, increased use of secret evidence in trials, rendition stuff, &c.) and the Purnell/Lord Fraud stuff which gave the Tories a kick start on the path to the benefit 'reforms' we see now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 4 hours ago, magnkarl said: New Labour's goals are to be like Norway where they already employ many of the Tory policies that people are upset about. I think Corbyn needs to identify what it is he wants to be before trying to emulate one of the more conservative, albeit liberal, societies in Europe. I don't understand. New Labour started with Blair and ended with Brown. The only thing they wanted was to be a red coloured Conservative party. Why do you think they wanted to be like Norway and what does that have to do with current Labour? I'm also a bit confused with your statement on conservative albeit liberal. They're not really at odds as conservatism is also liberal. Socialism tends to be closer to libertarianism which is freedom for the people rather than the markets. People seem to refer to Labour as the liberal left when in fact that describes neoliberal Labour which stopped existing in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 3 hours ago, blandy said: They did really well every time they were bold, or almost every time they were bold. I always think getting involved in miltary action is bold. I guess this was the massive exception. Mind you selling the gold was bold, and that turned out to be a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 20, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 20, 2017 1 hour ago, snowychap said: Erm add in the authoritarianism and managerialism (terrorism laws, ASBOs, increase in numbers of criminal offences, increased use of secret evidence in trials, rendition stuff, &c.) and the Purnell/Lord Fraud stuff which gave the Tories a kick start on the path to the benefit 'reforms' we see now. Oh yeah, them too. And the dodgy donors....etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 20, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 20, 2017 1 hour ago, darrenm said: Socialism tends to be closer to libertarianism Not in my understanding - they're almost opposites in many regards, surely? Maybe I'm wrong, but I kind of have Libertarianism as freedom for individuals and individuals owning business to just get on with it, and socialism to be heavy on state intervention, preventing people and businesses just getting on with it (for what they see as the common good, rather than individual good). I think a mix is the best solution - enough state regulation to reign in the negatives of greed and pollution etc. but not so much as to remove incentives for peope to do well for themselves and their families. I suppose everyone's version will be different, mind. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 20, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 20, 2017 1 hour ago, PauloBarnesi said: I always think getting involved in miltary action is bold. I guess this was the massive exception. Mind you selling the gold was bold, and that turned out to be a disaster. I think kosovo and Sierra Leone were bold because Labour kind of led the way and pushed it through and did good. I think Iraq was not bold - it was (as was characterised at the time) little more than being Bush's poodle - just do what your Master says. So yeah, in that case the exception, perhaps. Selling the gold - dunno really. What would we do with it if we stil had it? the timing was out, but hasn't the financial system moved on from Gold reserves etc. long ago? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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