JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 The way he got the goal, by being a nuisance, is one of his often overlooked qualities I feel. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Czechlad said: Maybe Hogan's ability to hound defenders and runs makes Grealish play better? It was pretty clear Grealish was getting the ball in better spots with Hogan playing, and Grealish has typically had his better matches for us while Hogan was starting. Interesting point, I've said before that I think Hogan is better when Grealish plays because he can pick out his runs. But perhaps it's also the other way around, that Hogans pressing and pushing their back line means that Grealish gets more space compared with forwards who falls back and draggs defenders with them more than Hogan can do. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 23 hours ago, NurembergVillan said: If he was being supplied by the Ron Atkinson team of 92/93, with Froggatt, Staunton, Daley and Houghton firing low crosses into the "corridor of uncertainty" I think we'd be comparing him to Dean Saunders. Sadly he's largely relying on Elmo and Adomah not slamming every cross into the first man or 15 yards beyond the back post. I can see how you arrive at this conclusion and I am a fan of Hogan - but Deano was a little special in all fairness and was more of a threat outside of the 18 yard box also imo - however keep it up Scott - I am delighted for you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted April 5, 2018 Moderator Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Dave J said: I can see how you arrive at this conclusion and I am a fan of Hogan - but Deano was a little special in all fairness and was more of a threat outside of the 18 yard box also imo - however keep it up Scott - I am delighted for you. Yeah, I certainly don't think we've seen enough quality from Hogan to make a comparison in terms of level but I definitely see similarities in his style of harrying defenders and playing off the shoulder. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 20 hours ago, DCJonah said: No chance he is a better finisher than kodjia. He had 2 great chances in the 1st half and failed to bury them. Disagree. Better option up front than Kodjia, in my opinion. And not just at the moment when Kodjia is clearly coming back from long term injury, and still rusty. Played in the proper system ie. not `hit and hope' or`hit it to the wingers and cross it', he will outscore Kodjia any season. And provide more chances for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 19 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: Disagree. Better option up front than Kodjia, in my opinion. And not just at the moment when Kodjia is clearly coming back from long term injury, and still rusty. Played in the proper system ie. not `hit and hope' or`hit it to the wingers and cross it', he will outscore Kodjia any season. And provide more chances for others. Entitled to your opinion but not much to base it on. Kodjia scored plenty with bristol and us, while hogan had a good spell of 30 games over 2 seasons and his record with us is abysmal 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 20 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said: He is an excellent finisher, probably the best at the club, give him chances and he will score goals. I think it's worth remembering it's only his second season at this level, he had a bit of a dip in form but that's to be expected after a big money move. He hasn't got the all round game but his finishing is outstanding in my opinion sorry i dont agree he misses lots of chances. kodjia and grabban are both better finishers than him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 17 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: sorry i dont agree he misses lots of chances. kodjia and grabban are both better finishers than him He tried his best to miss the one he scored on Tuesday! Had a complete open goal to aim at and placed it in the one part that gave the defender a chance. I'm still yet to see the natural finisher others see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Entitled to your opinion but not much to base it on. Kodjia scored plenty with bristol and us, while hogan had a good spell of 30 games over 2 seasons and his record with us is abysmal Their shots per goal/game ratio will be massively different at Villa. Kodjia created his own chances, didn't bother linking up with people and would just smash the ball from 20+ yards. Hogan plays off the last defender and looks to link with players, finishing off moves. They're very different players, but in a comparison of "better finisher", I'd be willing to guess that Hogan has a better shot/goal ratio than Kodjia. Edited April 5, 2018 by bobzy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 45 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: He tried his best to miss the one he scored on Tuesday! Had a complete open goal to aim at and placed it in the one part that gave the defender a chance. I'm still yet to see the natural finisher others see. Yeah I noticed that too but I do think it was a pretty good finish to be fair to Hogan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withes_shin Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Hopefully that goal on Tuesday is the start of a goal scoring run similar to that in early January for Hogan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 39 minutes ago, bobzy said: Their shots per goal/game ratio will be massively different at Villa. Kodjia created his own chances, didn't bother linking up with people and would just smash the ball from 20+ yards. Hogan plays off the last defender and looks to link with players, finishing off moves. They're very different players, but in a comparison of "better finisher", I'd be willing to guess that Hogan has a better shot/goal ratio than Kodjia. Hogan's passing stats are abysmal, I don't agree at all that he looks to link with players. He averages 6.5 passes per game and only completes 67% of them. That is atrocious for a striker that looks to link play. Not sure i agree with shot/goal ratio as better finisher. I believe Kane isn't in the top 10 for this stat and there is no way there are 10 better finishers than him in the league. If kodjia has 5 attempts, 3 being difficult chances, 1 a world class save and scores the other, that's a low rating. If Hogan has one chance because he can't get in the game and its a tap in open goal then he gets a high rating. Not sure its enough to determine who the better finisher is. Kodjia consistently has scored goals in this league for 2 different teams. For me from what i've seen of them Kodjia is a much better finisher. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Yup I do think Kodjia is a better player and finisher. Doesn't mean Hogan is not a good finisher, he is. However, Kodjia is on a different level as a player to Hogan. I do think that both can play in the same team if Kodjia plays on the left. If we play Hourihane, Thor and Hogan in the team then we are forced to actually play football. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 hour ago, bobzy said: Their shots per goal/game ratio will be massively different at Villa. Kodjia created his own chances, didn't bother linking up with people and would just smash the ball from 20+ yards. Hogan plays off the last defender and looks to link with players, finishing off moves. They're very different players, but in a comparison of "better finisher", I'd be willing to guess that Hogan has a better shot/goal ratio than Kodjia. Let's go to the tape here. These are Kodjia's goals from last season: There's precious little evidence here that he 'created his own chances, didn't bother linking up with people and would just smash the ball from 20+ yards' - a decent number are shots from the edge of the area, but most of those are made by others, and a lot of the rest are headers or penalties. There are, maybe, four or five smashes from distance, which are truly individual goals. As @DCJonah said, if Hogan has a better shot conversion rate than Kodjia, it doesn't prove that he's a better finisher. It might simply suggest that Kodjia is more involved in the play and hence has more shots. What I do know, is that Kodjia is a different level of ability to Hogan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Oh, bugger, now look what I have started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 As for who starts when Kodjia is fully fit, I think you start Hogan. Statistically the team plays better when jack and hogan are fit. We've actually only lost 1 game when Hogan and Grealish have started together, and that was back in December to Brentford. We also average over 2 goals a match when they start. Our best chance of winning comes with them on the field. We have a proper #10, and a mobile forward. They just work well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, Czechlad said: As for who starts when Kodjia is fully fit, I think you start Hogan. Statistically the team plays better when jack and hogan are fit. We've actually only lost 1 game when Hogan and Grealish have started together, and that was back in December to Brentford. We also average over 2 goals a match when they start. Our best chance of winning comes with them on the field. We have a proper #10, and a mobile forward. They just work well. But a fully fit kodjia has never had a chance to play with this Grealish in a 10 role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Just now, DCJonah said: But a fully fit kodjia has never had a chance to play with this Grealish in a 10 role. That's true, but at this point in the season I'd say continue with what we know is working and working well. We can always swap Kodjia for Hogan as a sub. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, Keener window-cleaner said: Interesting point, I've said before that I think Hogan is better when Grealish plays because he can pick out his runs. But perhaps it's also the other way around, that Hogans pressing and pushing their back line means that Grealish gets more space compared with forwards who falls back and draggs defenders with them more than Hogan can do. Did you observe the distance between Grealish amd Hogan Tuesday night.. it was far from galvanised or cohesive......Jack was obsessed with the ball and followed it everywhere.....He should be threading balls through to scotty.....His industry is commendable, but he needs to use his nous to turn it in to effective work. Jack is a very talented lad, but needs to understand the ethics of teamwork.....He cannot do everyones job for them.....He was playing embarrassingly deep at times. I felt sorry for Scotty at times. Edited April 5, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted April 5, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted April 5, 2018 Grealish is coming to deep, Hogan plays on the last man and works very hard to pressure the defense, he's doing his job. Grealish has to be told to position himself in positions that hurt the opposition, when we're in possession but more importantly when we're not. Hogan , as others have pointed out , makes space for other players by dragging defenders all over the pitch . Kodja may benefit from that , he's a definite goal threat. Kodja is different as a forward , hes one dimensional, he just trys to score goals and has no other aspects to his game ......., heaven forbid Fact is we have the most talented squad in this division by a country mile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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