villa4europe Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 14 minutes ago, bobzy said: You're putting in time constraints to suit the narrative, though. Lampard was given a chance at Derby, did well and progressed the club whilst utilising loans effectively. Dream job came along the summer after he was appointed, he left. Derby have to rebuild. Bruce was given a chance at Sheff Wed, did well and progressed the club. Dream job came along the summer after he was appointed, he left. Sheff Wed have to recruit a new manager. Aside from "Steve Bruce is a word removed and Frank Lampard isn't" - and Bruce resigning - there really isn't any massive difference between what's happened. Unless you're saying that it's more acceptable for managers in their first jobs to jump ship early, but more experienced managers should stick around? Which, to me, is the wrong way round tbh. no he didnt he did nothing, Wednesday appointed him, gave him a holiday, blatantly lined him up for this season not last, him seeing out the season was a free hit, no pressure for the playoffs or to stay up or to do anything, effectively start this summer and he hasn't, he's walked away 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 22 minutes ago, bobzy said: You're putting in time constraints to suit the narrative, though. Lampard was given a chance at Derby, did well and progressed the club whilst utilising loans effectively. Dream job came along the summer after he was appointed, he left. Derby have to rebuild. Bruce was given a chance at Sheff Wed, did well and progressed the club. Dream job came along the summer after he was appointed, he left. Sheff Wed have to recruit a new manager. Aside from "Steve Bruce is a word removed and Frank Lampard isn't" - and Bruce resigning - there really isn't any massive difference between what's happened. Unless you're saying that it's more acceptable for managers in their first jobs to jump ship early, but more experienced managers should stick around? Which, to me, is the wrong way round tbh. So you really cannot see any difference between the two? at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Exactly. The insinuation that other managers wouldn’t leave Sheffield Wednesday on the championship to manage Newcastle in the premier league is hilarious. I’d guess almost every other manager on the championship would. In fact I’d wager a handful in the premier league would too. I think most managers with ambition wouldn't touch Newcastle at the moment as its walking into hostile environment. Except the future payoff but they just lost a popular top class manager and have an owner who wont spend big to improve the team. I think Newcastle fans are harder to please than Villa and if gets a bad start they will turn quite quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 10 hours ago, MaVilla said: Was just reading the Sheffield Wednesday forum in relation to Steve Bruce leaving. I thought for a second I was actually reading the villa talk forum..... Then I realised that's not possible, because they appear to hate Steve Bruce even more than most people here.... Let that sink in for a second.... Link please ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted July 16, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted July 16, 2019 He certainty made Wednesday harder to beat, but taking into account who they played I don’t think it was quite the upturn in fortunes that was it being hailed as. I’m sure there are those who will say he saved Sheffield Wednesday. But did anyone really think they were going to be relegated before he took over? Broadly speaking he did there what he did here in his first season, but in a shorter time frame. Even the final position is the almost the same. It was probably slightly better at Wednesday thinking about it, as obviously he didn’t spend in the January transfer window. It was solid, rather than being remarkable, which was what Wednesday needed in fairness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Zatman said: I think most managers with ambition wouldn't touch Newcastle at the moment as its walking into hostile environment. Except the future payoff but they just lost a popular top class manager and have an owner who wont spend big to improve the team. I think Newcastle fans are harder to please than Villa and if gets a bad start they will turn quite quick I think villa fans really have softened to be honest over the last few years. We were very patient with Bruce and 90% of the fan base got behind Smith and still support him. Your right though Newcastle fans are harder to please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 16, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted July 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Zatman said: I think most managers with ambition wouldn't touch Newcastle at the moment as its walking into hostile environment. Except the future payoff but they just lost a popular top class manager and have an owner who wont spend big to improve the team. I think Newcastle fans are harder to please than Villa and if gets a bad start they will turn quite quick I don’t disagree with much of that. I don’t think he’ll succeed there. He MIGHT keep them up. But I think the fans will hate him and he’ll be gone next summer at the latest. But that doesn’t change the fact that most managers in his position would have done the same thing, before you even consider it’s supposedly his boyhood club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Link please ! https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/283376-say-goodbye-to-steve-bruce/#comments 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) He might have gotten wind that it is actually a takeover happening and knowing the new owners will want a better manager he signs a contract knowing he'll get the sack and compo in October at the latest Edit: Fwiw the Newcastle forum is even more entertaining than the Sheffield one Quote Wednesday fan here. I'm sending a barrow full of cabbages for you lot to lob at the fat git( seems like the villa were right). Hope for your sake he doesn't take you down. https://www.toontastic.net/board/topic/23219-bruce-manager-of-nufc/?page=10 Edited July 16, 2019 by sne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted July 16, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted July 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, MaVilla said: https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/283376-say-goodbye-to-steve-bruce/#comments Hahahah! **** hell! They really, really don't like him do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Why are Wednesday fans so irate? Can only assume they’re sad to see him go which kinda doesn’t add up to him being useless. If he’d walked out of here to join Newcastle half of you lot would be doing cartwheels not getting pissed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TrentVilla Posted July 16, 2019 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I don’t disagree with much of that. I don’t think he’ll succeed there. He MIGHT keep them up. But I think the fans will hate him and he’ll be gone next summer at the latest. But that doesn’t change the fact that most managers in his position would have done the same thing, before you even consider it’s supposedly his boyhood club. I agree on the first bit not so sure on the second. Generally speaking I agree most Championship managers would happily leave their jobs to take a job in the Premier League, even more so if it was their boyhood club. I don't think anyone can really dispute that. It is though when we move away from the hypothetical to the specifics of this situation where I think some doubt starts to creep in. For instance, when Villa were talking with Brentford do you think Dean Smith would have taken the same action that Bruce has taken? Namely being given permission to speak and then quitting when the compensation wasn't agreed quick enough. Now neither of us can say either way with anything like any certainty but my belief is that he wouldn't have conducted himself as Bruce has done. So for me there is a distinction to be drawn between the desire for the job and the actions in pursuit of it. I think to criticise Bruce for wanting the job is wrong but similarly I think his actions are wrong and entirely worthy of criticism. I think this is even more true given the unusual circumstances around his appointment, I think he owed Sheff Wed a little more respect given that they were willing to go to such unusual lengths to appoint him. So for me, yes a very high percentage of managers would want the Newcastle job in his position, an even higher percentage would want the job with it being 'their' club. I just think a lot of managers would have conducted themselves better than Bruce has done in this example and for me at least on a number of occasions throughout his managerial career. What irritates me with Bruce is the way he portrays himself and the way he is portrayed by the media, I think it is an entirely false narrative not supported by events or his behaviour. I don't doubt he is good company, I'm sure he is extremely personable but I question his integrity, his honesty and I think he is utterly utterly deluded and self serving. Now plenty of people in the game are that way but I don't think they are given quite the same sugar coating by their pals in the press. Some will argue Bruce can't be held responsible for the press but I'd argue he is very clever and deliberate in the way he cultivates an image and those relationships for his benefit. I don't expect everyone to share that view but it does seem to be quite commonly held by fans of a lot of his former clubs. So I think your view expressed above is largely correct but I also think a lot of the criticism of him is equally valid. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Why are Wednesday fans so irate? Can only assume they’re sad to see him go which kinda doesn’t add up to him being useless. If he’d walked out of here to join Newcastle half of you lot would be doing cartwheels not getting pissed off. Because he has ruined their season already. By the time they get a new manager in the transfer window will be nearly shut. Due to time of season most managers available are unenployed so its a limited pool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 16, 2019 Moderator Share Posted July 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Why are Wednesday fans so irate? Can only assume they’re sad to see him go which kinda doesn’t add up to him being useless. If he’d walked out of here to join Newcastle half of you lot would be doing cartwheels not getting pissed off. I don't think they think he was useless, far from it. I think similarly to when he arrived here he had a positive effect, in the short term Bruce is very capable manager. He shores teams up, makes them hard to beat, wins games so they were very much in that phase. For a long time I think a lot of Villa fans were win drunk with Bruce, we had such a bad time that when he came in and started winning matches people over looked a lot or thought that the issues they did see would be resolved in time. Now I've no desire to debate Bruce's time with us again so if people see things differently, fair enough, we can agree to disagree. But I think Sheff Wed fans were very much in that honeymoon phase and thought he was great, not useless. I think in time they would have seen his limitations as all other clubs he has managed have. I think they are irate because they feel he has screwed them over leaving at this stage of the summer, they feel even more aggrieved given that they waited for him for so long when appointed. I can understand why they are so angry, it isn't all that different to the anger many felt towards O'Neill when he walked out on us 5 days before the start of a season irrespective of the wider context of events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 39 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Link please ! Take your pick.... they don't seem as good as our mods at keeping everything in one place https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/283354-breaking-news-steve-bruce-resigns/ https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/283376-say-goodbye-to-steve-bruce/ https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/283380-steve-bruce-pr-machine/ They seem universally angry with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted July 16, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted July 16, 2019 26 minutes ago, sne said: Edit: Fwiw the Newcastle forum is even more entertaining than the Sheffield one They have a FANTASTIC emoticon that would have been useful here a few months back. (and most certainly some time in the future) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartc445 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 22 hours ago, villa4europe said: well it kind of is... not sure what you do but I doubt a teacher starting a new role gets that luxury, neither would construction workers in most instances, sure there are other examples he took off the xmas period and January so skipped 6 league games and 3 cup matches and the entire January transfer window do agree that Wednesday cant complain about it though because its them who signed up to it in the first place, they more or less wrote last season off by doing it, that's their choice / fault not his and if he was appointed at the end of the season not the start then yeah I would say its normal for him to start after his holiday, but mid season? its another thing in the last year that I don't think there is a precedent for, cant think of any other manager delaying the start to a mid season appointment Doesn't matter what job you do if you start a job and have a pre booked holiday that they have to honour it, obviously you can cancel it but they can't stop you taking it. Edited July 16, 2019 by Stuartc445 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartc445 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) Love this thread though it's comedy gold. Comments so far: If Bruce had any class he'd quit and not hold out for compo. 2 days later Bruce resigns Bruce is classless for resigning should have waited so wednesday got money he's a word removed. So people say if he had class he'd resign but then when he resigns say he's classless. Like i said comedy gold Edited July 16, 2019 by Stuartc445 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Stuartc445 said: Love this thread though it's comedy gold. Comments so far: If Bruce had any class he'd quit and not hold out for compo. 2 days later Bruce resigns Bruce is classless for resigning should have waited so wednesday got money he's a word removed. So people say if he had class he'd resign but then when he resigns say he's classless. Like i said comedy gold The same people said those things? If so yeah that is a bit funny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, MaVilla said: https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/283376-say-goodbye-to-steve-bruce/#comments Tried to sign up but isn't working. Crap site That thread is hilarious Edited July 16, 2019 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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