Steve Bruce

[TRO]

16 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Annoyed at the idea of a man who failed keeping his job with lower expectations because of his failure seems rational to me. The defence of his failure, while the club you support suffers, makes no sense to me. 

Could never understand when lambert and lerner had the same. 

Perhaps in hindsight the best bit of motivation before the game was hanging up the accounts in the dressing room.

We may have got the reaction we was ALL hoping for.

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

20 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Don't think Hull spent that much when they came down in 15/16 and had to sell a few.

Some of his recruits at Hull were excellent and probably the high point of his career but when relegated they went down with some excellent players. Livermore, Maguire, Robertson, Curtis Davies, Diame, Snodgrass and Abel Hernandez. They lost Chester, Brady, Ince and Jelavic but he wasn't working off scraps in the manner of Warnock, Dyche etc.

[A'Villan]

28 minutes ago, TRO said:

from what I gather, Bruce greatly reduced the wage bill from the previous year, so that would have been one of those jobs well done.

as for putting the club in jeopardy......I seem to remember the episode at Leeds where most folk blamed Peter Risdale for allowing it to happen....citing O'Leary as just another football manager wanting the best players.

Interesting how blame can be apportioned differently at different clubs in some fans eyes.

I think Steve Bruce bought some decent players.....I think he missed a trick, but thats is easy for me to say in hindsight.

Whether or not I agree with you, I find myself having a lot of respect for the way you post.

I don't blame Bruce for recruiting in a way that put the club in jeopardy, that's not his responsibility in my view, but the fact that he went ahead and did it anyway shows a lack of initiative and ingenuity in my mind. He might've even reduced the wage bill considerably, but that doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't as much a part of an over spending culture like his predecessors, it just means less so. I take it that you haven't taken note of my posts previously where I clearly state that Xia and Wyness are the ones responsible for expenditure and Bruce is not to blame for putting his best foot forward and using what his superiors allowed him. I will repeat though, just because he's not at fault, doesn't mean he has inspired any confidence.

Look, I've done a 180 on Bruce, so who am I to say with any conviction I know what I am talking about. Like you, I am simply expressing my perspective to the discussion.

My original stance was that he had assembled a good enough squad for us to challenge for promotion, and on that basis he was doing a good enough job considering all that had come before. There wasn't  a day or a week that went by where I wasn't behind Bruce. I still understand why I held this view, and why others would, I just think it was short sighted if not blind or deluded to think that the way we went about it was developing any foundation to how we can succeed and rebuild our identity.

If that was the Villa Engine it lasted all of one season, congratulations on the success' that were had along the way, and even though we missed out on our goal, we can look forward to starting from square one again. I'm sorry but I hope for better for this club and think it is obtainable @TRO

Edited June 7, 2018 by A'Villan

[AntrimBlack]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

is there a choice?

I was referring to our youngsters, Tro. He just will not use them. Look at his record even with us.

[TRO]

25 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

I was referring to our youngsters, Tro. He just will not use them. Look at his record even with us.

He has to....He has to change.

I don't know what he will say in close quarters with Tony.....This lot now has thrown the cat amongst the pidgeons.

More turmoil now might be too much.....not a right reason to keep him, but needs must sometimes.

Look, I have been unhappy with some things I have seen this season, but 72 goals 24 wins....something was right.....and we was so bloody close.

Look

• Jokanovic
• Wagner
• Warnock

all went up in their second season, we nearly did it, but fell short, its not like Bristol or Sheff Utd who went early, Derby were close and fell away.....Boro were favourites at the start, but only galloped at the end.

I think events now, have shown us, that promotion next season maybe ambitious....but we have to do the best we can.

The things I have been unhappy with might not be the same things you or others have been unhappy with, but I am a character, that thinks no manager is going to see the game I do, so I have to accept that.

I am not opposed to a new guy,( depends who it is) I just think there is so much to get their head around before they even start.

Edited June 8, 2018 by TRO

[TheEgo]

For me if the plan is to tear it all up and start again (which it has to be right?) whatever your views on Bruce prior to this, its quite evident from his history he isn't the type of manager to take on a long term building job, bringing through youth and maybe having to do it for years. Will he want that kind of task? 

I think we need a fresh start all round. All the coaches, maybe Round too. A whole new approach. We appoint our OWN coaches, to train and set up the team the villa way. Any manager coming in has to agree to this and fit our way of playing. He can bring an assistant. Same style and formation played from the under 10s and upwards. 

We need an identity desperately. Have a policy of no over 26/27 year olds. Links to local clubs like Walsall to send players out and coaches too. Harvest players from around the whole Midlands club scene and as I said have them working to a style that be it u23 or first team will be the same. 

Worst case, a manager doesn't work out hopefully we can recruit from within and on we go. No huge upheaval. Coaches, managers and players all brought in to fit a style. 

That's the start of my blueprint for villa and I don't see Bruce fits that criteria. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

16 minutes ago, TheEgo said:

For me if the plan is to tear it all up and start again (which it has to be right?) whatever your views on Bruce prior to this, its quite evident from his history he isn't the type of manager to take on a long term building job, bringing through youth and maybe having to do it for years. Will he want that kind of task? 

I think we need a fresh start all round. All the coaches, maybe Round too. A whole new approach. We appoint our OWN coaches, to train and set up the team the villa way. Any manager coming in has to agree to this and fit our way of playing. He can bring an assistant. Same style and formation played from the under 10s and upwards. 

We need an identity desperately. Have a policy of no over 26/27 year olds. Links to local clubs like Walsall to send players out and coaches too. Harvest players from around the whole Midlands club scene and as I said have them working to a style that be it u23 or first team will be the same. 

Worst case, a manager doesn't work out hopefully we can recruit from within and on we go. No huge upheaval. Coaches, managers and players all brought in to fit a style. 

That's the start of my blueprint for villa and I don't see Bruce fits that criteria. 

Agreed.

[srsmithusa]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

To be honest there is a part of me that hopes he goes.....more for his own good.

If I was in his ear now, I would say, try your luck somewhere else mate, it might be best in the long run.

just like Sam Allardyce  and Tony Pulis.....He will never be accepted in some quarters here.....even if we had of got promotion, some other angle would have been sought.

Most Albion fans wanted Tony out, it wasn't pretty....but it hasn't been for years at Albion....trouble was they were living in the past with the three degrees.

Albion always insisted on attractive football, even at the expense of winning....blimey, it looked like ping pong or blow football to me at times before Pulis or even lawn tennis, such was the sorties one end to the other.

Sam saves Everton from a slide and gets hounded out, by those that never wanted him in the first place, such gratitude, bet he wished he had let them drop.

We all want to play exciting football....but so do the opposition too.

And they managed to do it. While Steve Bruce failed to.  

[A'Villan]

4 hours ago, TheEgo said:

For me if the plan is to tear it all up and start again (which it has to be right?) whatever your views on Bruce prior to this, its quite evident from his history he isn't the type of manager to take on a long term building job, bringing through youth and maybe having to do it for years. Will he want that kind of task? 

I think we need a fresh start all round. All the coaches, maybe Round too. A whole new approach. We appoint our OWN coaches, to train and set up the team the villa way. Any manager coming in has to agree to this and fit our way of playing. He can bring an assistant. Same style and formation played from the under 10s and upwards. 

We need an identity desperately. Have a policy of no over 26/27 year olds. Links to local clubs like Walsall to send players out and coaches too. Harvest players from around the whole Midlands club scene and as I said have them working to a style that be it u23 or first team will be the same. 

Worst case, a manager doesn't work out hopefully we can recruit from within and on we go. No huge upheaval. Coaches, managers and players all brought in to fit a style. 

That's the start of my blueprint for villa and I don't see Bruce fits that criteria. 

Bruce is definitely not the long term prospect for me, either.

We do need identity, and I would put character, integrity and of course athletic/footballing proficiency as the attributes to be focused on.

I would like us to start with coaching that allows for flexibility and fluidity in style, instead of a dogmatic approach to attacking or defensive football.

Barca's recent greatness was kicked off with attractive, front foot, attacking football from Rijkaard, and peaked with the Spanish influence of 'tiki taka'.

Both Rijkaard and Bruce Lee say you should never try and emulate or copy another or something from the past, and I agree with their philosophy.

Legacy and heritage is built by constant effort and the ability to adapt and triumph the challenges that face you. Rather than by relying on some doctrine or dogmatic approach to an endeavor.

So I think I would have to disagree with the notion to play the same formation and style from ground up. Unless you simply mean that all age groups at the club need to be practicing in a way where they can take the next step with relative ease rather than pandering to the different demands of different coaches and methodology.

I will share this story as I think it appropriate, I play basketball semi professionally and also coached at state level. I played and coached for this one club that had it's tactics set in stone, it was called, 'turnouts', it was required of me to implement and run with this system all season, club policy. I worked it as a player and a coach.

Second game of coaching and the opposition starts chanting 'turnouts' before the game during warmup. My players are disheartened by this. We go on to lose nearly every game by an average of 20-30 points until I stepped down as coach. I have won grand finals as a player and coach, both youth and mens. It wasn't my ability to coach the system or a lack of player application. The tactics were just mediocre and failed to create space, draw the defense or create meaning movement off the ball.

Never have I been so disillusioned with the sport in my life than when I was playing during that clubs persistence with 'turnouts'.

Like this Villa Engine business, it's great to want to have an identity but to make it successful involves being able to draw on a myriad of experience and applying it with cohesion so it's competitive as a bare minimum.

We need to have a focus on employing people with the right qualities, as well as having a foundation and philosophy as a club.

I see Xia as someone with a lot of the right motives, and to a lesser degree attributes to lead us forward. Bruce, no.

If Xia can pay attention to coming good on his word through diligence and patience rather than the impulse that we've seen, he might work out .

 

Edited June 8, 2018 by A'Villan

[DCJonah]

6 hours ago, Jareth said:

Well TBF you've not failed to explode with rage at any single atom of Villa season 17/18. 

Good one. Think you've confused not being pleased with certain things as the club struggles with exploding with rage. I can understand it though, as you seem to choose to back individuals rather than the club you support. It happens for some reason, where some are more concerned with those that cause the issues and that they are ok. 

[Eastie]

It’s been a season of highs and lows and ultimately heartbreak - time for me to take a few weeks off the forum  in the close season as I do most years and enjoy the summer ( what we get of it )   Enjoy your summer all and I hope on my return in August that we are all recharged and in a position to give it our best shot in the new season - I think next season will be tough but whoever is in charge we need to unite again as a club and face the difficult times ahead . 

‘Have a nice summer folks

[Vive_La_Villa]

7 hours ago, briny_ear said:

In a thread in which poster after poster are almost exploding with rage at the suggestion that Bruce might stay, that is quite funny.

Fair point but my posr was more to do with what was said about Wagner.

[DaveAV1]

22 minutes ago, Eastie said:

It’s been a season of highs and lows and ultimately heartbreak - time for me to take a few weeks off the forum  in the close season as I do most years and enjoy the summer ( what we get of it )   Enjoy your summer all and I hope on my return in August that we are all recharged and in a position to give it our best shot in the new season - I think next season will be tough but whoever is in charge we need to unite again as a club and face the difficult times ahead . 

‘Have a nice summer folks

See you at a minute past midnight 1/8/18   Enjoy your summer. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

Bruce or no Bruce we are most likely going to struggle next year.  

44 minutes ago, Eastie said:

It’s been a season of highs and lows and ultimately heartbreak - time for me to take a few weeks off the forum  in the close season as I do most years and enjoy the summer ( what we get of it )   Enjoy your summer all and I hope on my return in August that we are all recharged and in a position to give it our best shot in the new season - I think next season will be tough but whoever is in charge we need to unite again as a club and face the difficult times ahead . 

‘Have a nice summer folks

Enjoy your summer mate. I’m going to have to take some time away from the forum as well before my wife leaves me.

[Stevo985]

Be careful what you wish for.

 

I'm calling it now. Bruce will go. We'll be in a relegation fight.

[Jareth]

54 minutes ago, Eastie said:

It’s been a season of highs and lows and ultimately heartbreak - time for me to take a few weeks off the forum  in the close season as I do most years and enjoy the summer ( what we get of it )   Enjoy your summer all and I hope on my return in August that we are all recharged and in a position to give it our best shot in the new season - I think next season will be tough but whoever is in charge we need to unite again as a club and face the difficult times ahead . 

‘Have a nice summer folks

£5 he'll post again before midday.

[mattyvilla]

In reality we can probably no longer match Steve Bruce's ambitions , i think he will walk.

[Jareth]

10 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Bruce or no Bruce we are most likely going to struggle next year.  

Enjoy your summer mate. I’m going to have to take some time away from the forum as well before my wife leaves me.

She has a few more reasons for that I'm certain...

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Be careful what you wish for.

 

I'm calling it now. Bruce will go. We'll be in a relegation fight.

Or Bruce will stay, we’ll be in a relegation fight. Next season will be hard for whoever’s in charge. 

[Jareth]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Good one. Think you've confused not being pleased with certain things as the club struggles with exploding with rage. I can understand it though, as you seem to choose to back individuals rather than the club you support. It happens for some reason, where some are more concerned with those that cause the issues and that they are ok. 

Scuze, you're right, I could learn a thing or two from your obstinate objectivity