Vive_La_Villa Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Jareth said: She has a few more reasons for that I'm certain... I like to blame the forum... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 8, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Or Bruce will stay, we’ll be in a relegation fight. Next season will be hard for whoever’s in charge. Entirely possible. I just worry about who would be willing to come in and do the job if Bruce goes. Contrary to the VT exaggeration, Bruce is still a very good manager at this level. He failed last season, but that doesn't suddenly make him shit. Few, if any, teams in this financial situation in this league would have a manager as good as Bruce to keep them afloat. We won't be getting the next Jose Mourinho taking over if Bruce is sacked. We'll end up with someone like Steve Evans 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 8 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Believe me it kills me to write this and it will be ugly as hell. But I think Bruce staying might not be the end of the world. And for me you've pretty much summed up the entire Bruce era there Vive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Entirely possible. I just worry about who would be willing to come in and do the job if Bruce goes. Contrary to the VT exaggeration, Bruce is still a very good manager at this level. He failed last season, but that doesn't suddenly make him shit. Few, if any, teams in this financial situation in this league would have a manager as good as Bruce to keep them afloat. We won't be getting the next Jose Mourinho taking over if Bruce is sacked. We'll end up with someone like Steve Evans You’re right. I guess the hope is a relatively unknown manager like a Wagner or Jovanovich takes over to try and rebuild something over the next few seasons. Would anyone take Rowett? edit: just realised Stoke already have. Edited June 8, 2018 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 7 hours ago, TRO said: He has to....He has to change. I don't know what he will say in close quarters with Tony.....This lot now has thrown the cat amongst the pidgeons. More turmoil now might be too much.....not a right reason to keep him, but needs must sometimes. Look, I have been unhappy with some things I have seen this season, but 72 goals 24 wins....something was right.....and we was so bloody close. Look Jokanovic Wagner Warnock all went up in their second season, we nearly did it, but fell short, its not like Bristol or Sheff Utd who went early, Derby were close and fell away.....Boro were favourites at the start, but only galloped at the end. I think events now, have shown us, that promotion next season maybe ambitious....but we have to do the best we can. The things I have been unhappy with might not be the same things you or others have been unhappy with, but I am a character, that thinks no manager is going to see the game I do, so I have to accept that. I am not opposed to a new guy,( depends who it is) I just think there is so much to get their head around before they even start. He won't change, Tro. He cannot change, he is what he is, and no amount of wishful thinking will make him change. He played a huge part in putting us where we are now with his`style' of management, and I cannot forget that. He seems to be continuing with clean hands and a free pass. But not from me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 8, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: You’re right. I guess the hope is a relatively unknown manager like a Wagner or Jovanovich takes over to try and rebuild something over the next few seasons. It's a great thought. But realistically what are the chances of that? People on here are foaming at the mouth slating Xia and Wyness and co for picking Di Matteo and then Bruce. What makes people suddenly so sure that they can sack Bruce and then find the next Wagner, all under the backdrop of financial meltdown? Like I said, IF the finances are as bad as it has appeared over the past couple of days then I think holding onto Bruce could be a very attractive option. Forget winning the league or getting promoted or getting into the playoffs. We'll be fighting to stay up. Plus I doubt we can afford to sack Bruce, so the ball will probably be in his court anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 9 hours ago, TRO said: Equally, I don't think he is Pepe Guardiola either but lets get some perspective here. Jokanovic has just beaten us to the punch by the odd goal.....And I am reading on here that he is a tactical genius or words intimating.....our bloke is a tactical knobhead.....The odd goal over 49 games. Look I have no problem with folk criticising Bruce.....but come on.....and you wonder why I defend him, with stuff like that. That is so unfair. If you consider the respective teams performances over the entire season, it is obvious that we were left floundering in the Fulham wake because of Bruce's inability. Jokakanovic did not need to be a tactical genius to best Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 17 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: He won't change, Tro. He cannot change, he is what he is, and no amount of wishful thinking will make him change. I agree with this very much. (He aint gonna change his spots Tro) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 If he does stay, what is happening will just make him even more cautious than before. We will be playing for a 0-0 win away to all clubs in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dick said: If he does stay, what is happening will just make him even more cautious than before. We will be playing for a 0-0 win away to all clubs in the league. But that will absolutely do as a minimum this upcoming season. I mean 2 days ago it looked like the club would be shut down. I think he will surprise a few - we saw it last season, when Bruce is pushed into a situation he usually does alright - I'd prefer that actually than him having unlimited choice, that wouldn't suit him. As per the young uns, I think he's the right manager for them, and now that he will be forced to use them, I can't think of a better figure to look after their fragile confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post omariqy Posted June 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2018 I really don't think people understand the depth and talent of the squad we had at our disposal compared to other teams. We had probably the best young English GK not in the England squad, we had international defenders and one of the best PL defenders ever to play. We had two of the best wingers, two of the most experienced midfielders along with an Iceland international and England u21s main midfielder. Add to that two of the best midfielders in the championship the year before. That's before I even get to our strikers who are all proven in the championship. For half a season we also had the best player in the Championship. We should have finished top two. We got another bite of the cherry and we came out in the image of our manager, cautious and one-paced. We have to change our approach and at least have a 2 if not 3 year plan to get back up. Bruce cannot be the man to do that. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEgo Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 3 hours ago, A'Villan said: Bruce is definitely not the long term prospect for me, either. We do need identity, and I would put character, integrity and of course athletic/footballing proficiency as the attributes to be focused on. I would like us to start with coaching that allows for flexibility and fluidity in style, instead of a dogmatic approach to attacking or defensive football. Barca's recent greatness was kicked off with attractive, front foot, attacking football from Rijkaard, and peaked with the Spanish influence of 'tiki taka'. Both Rijkaard and Bruce Lee say you should never try and emulate or copy another or something from the past, and I agree with their philosophy. Legacy and heritage is built by constant effort and the ability to adapt and triumph the challenges that face you. Rather than by relying on some doctrine or dogmatic approach to an endeavor. So I think I would have to disagree with the notion to play the same formation and style from ground up. Unless you simply mean that all age groups at the club need to be practicing in a way where they can take the next step with relative ease rather than pandering to the different demands of different coaches and methodology. I will share this story as I think it appropriate, I play basketball semi professionally and also coached at state level. I played and coached for this one club that had it's tactics set in stone, it was called, 'turnouts', it was required of me to implement and run with this system all season, club policy. I worked it as a player and a coach. Second game of coaching and the opposition starts chanting 'turnouts' before the game during warmup. My players are disheartened by this. We go on to lose nearly every game by an average of 20-30 points until I stepped down as coach. I have won grand finals as a player and coach, both youth and mens. It wasn't my ability to coach the system or a lack of player application. The tactics were just mediocre and failed to create space, draw the defense or create meaning movement off the ball. Never have I been so disillusioned with the sport in my life than when I was playing during that clubs persistence with 'turnouts'. Like this Villa Engine business, it's great to want to have an identity but to make it successful involves being able to draw on a myriad of experience and applying it with cohesion so it's competitive as a bare minimum. We need to have a focus on employing people with the right qualities, as well as having a foundation and philosophy as a club. I see Xia as someone with a lot of the right motives, and to a lesser degree attributes to lead us forward. Bruce, no. If Xia can pay attention to coming good on his word through diligence and patience rather than the impulse that we've seen, he might work out . Great Post. Yes I do mean the same style throughout age groups. We definitely have to be fluid and be able to adapt to different styles and have a variety of systems and shapes. I just want whatever the first team if doing to be replicated throughout the whole club like ajax do. It all seems so simple and common sense written down on here. Begs the question why are supposedly smart businessmen with huge investments in the club not as well as professional coaches and sporting directors not seeing it? For me the very core of all this must be instructed from the very top and constantly reinforced and the right people brought in to deliver it. As I said in my previous post. This remit from a managers perspective, doesn't appear to tally with Bruce and his skillset. It's a total mismatch in this context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 9 hours ago, TRO said: from what I gather, Bruce greatly reduced the wage bill from the previous year, so that would have been one of those jobs well done. as for putting the club in jeopardy......I seem to remember the episode at Leeds where most folk blamed Peter Risdale for allowing it to happen....citing O'Leary as just another football manager wanting the best players. Interesting how blame can be apportioned differently at different clubs in some fans eyes. I think Steve Bruce bought some decent players.....I think he missed a trick, but thats is easy for me to say in hindsight. Brought some decent players ? Pity, he didn't allow them to play decent football . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, TheEgo said: For me if the plan is to tear it all up and start again (which it has to be right?) whatever your views on Bruce prior to this, its quite evident from his history he isn't the type of manager to take on a long term building job, bringing through youth and maybe having to do it for years. Will he want that kind of task? I think we need a fresh start all round. All the coaches, maybe Round too. A whole new approach. We appoint our OWN coaches, to train and set up the team the villa way. Any manager coming in has to agree to this and fit our way of playing. He can bring an assistant. Same style and formation played from the under 10s and upwards. We need an identity desperately. Have a policy of no over 26/27 year olds. Links to local clubs like Walsall to send players out and coaches too. Harvest players from around the whole Midlands club scene and as I said have them working to a style that be it u23 or first team will be the same. Worst case, a manager doesn't work out hopefully we can recruit from within and on we go. No huge upheaval. Coaches, managers and players all brought in to fit a style. That's the start of my blueprint for villa and I don't see Bruce fits that criteria. You may be right....maybe he doesn't fit that criteria....i am not sure who does. but lets get a few things straight here..... we went down and were desperate to get straight back and the panic has been quite evident from most concerned with the club.....hanging around to build in the fashion you suggest, was never really an option, with the pressure of the finances, which has now been revealed.Steve Bruce really wanted the job, so probably said anything to get it.Promotion was probably the leverage. in contrast Neil Warnock was not under the same pressure and made it clear, promotion was not to be expected, when he took the job but he would do his best....the club accepted that.he said they wanted him more than he wanted them....so he could stipulate. Every club is trying to get out of this league....there are no guarantee's of promotion and it is also unwise to "write it off" at the start, too.... we as fans need to temper our expectation too, that is not a yield to lack of ambition, but to temper it. its clear, we have to restructure and a rethink of how move forward, but expectation has to be commensurate with gradual improvement. As fans we all want to sign big players, but a disciplined structure can also save ourselves from mistakes....we have been a bit gungho in the past, it has to stop. from the point of view of finances and integration, large numbers and players over 30 must cease. Edited June 8, 2018 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: Brought some decent players ? Pity, he didn't allow them to play decent football . Relentless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 47 minutes ago, TheEgo said: Great Post. Yes I do mean the same style throughout age groups. We definitely have to be fluid and be able to adapt to different styles and have a variety of systems and shapes. I just want whatever the first team if doing to be replicated throughout the whole club like ajax do. It all seems so simple and common sense written down on here. Begs the question why are supposedly smart businessmen with huge investments in the club not as well as professional coaches and sporting directors not seeing it? For me the very core of all this must be instructed from the very top and constantly reinforced and the right people brought in to deliver it. As I said in my previous post. This remit from a managers perspective, doesn't appear to tally with Bruce and his skillset. It's a total mismatch in this context. I think an owner who is hands on, would help.....Tony is stretched too much in his time. it seems we struggle with CEO's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 1 hour ago, VILLAMARV said: I agree with this very much. (He aint gonna change his spots Tro) Then we have to change him. but remember, there is no status quo......it could get worse, by changing him. If thats the gamble worth taking, fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Any expectations of anything more than a mid table finish next season would be unrealistic. That said I still would not keep Bruce, he will never play the sort of football that we need to start playing here. A primacy on passing, movement and a higher press is what is needed. Next season is all about putting foundations in place and kick and rush football has no place in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Jareth said: But that will absolutely do as a minimum this upcoming season. I mean 2 days ago it looked like the club would be shut down. I think he will surprise a few - we saw it last season, when Bruce is pushed into a situation he usually does alright - I'd prefer that actually than him having unlimited choice, that wouldn't suit him. As per the young uns, I think he's the right manager for them, and now that he will be forced to use them, I can't think of a better figure to look after their fragile confidence. I keep seeing this, but there is no reason to think he will suddenly change his whole mindset, and use the youngsters, which he has not done at any time during his tenure, even when the team was crying out for fresh blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 And it seems to me, Bruce was the one with the fragile confidence, not the youngsters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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