Steve Bruce

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, omariqy said:

We had so much experience that was meant to get us through sticky patches. Yet when the pressure told we faltered. It didn't work. 

I think with the pressure came the age and we struggled against younger opposition. We had a lot of player on the wrong side of 30.

In a lot of the games we faltered we really struggled against strength and pace. Qpr and Millwall spring to mind. 

[TRO]

53 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

That assumes they were worth the money we were paying them. The year we got relegated we had the 10th highest wage bill. We finished 20th and went down in March.

I actually do think last seasons squad was good enough to achieve promotion. We finished 6 points from automatic and came very close in the play offs. I think we came close enough that based on that alone doesn't warrant Bruce being sacked especially when you take in to account the position we were in when he came in - 5 wins in 18 months, no away win in 14 months, 1 win in 11 Championship games, knocked out of league cup by 4th tier Luton. In the 20 months he has been here he has turned around a side still going backwards and got us to within a whisker of promotion. Turned around a squad lacking heart, desire, fight and leadership to one which for the first time in years was full of team spirit.

The big question for me isn't does what he has done in 20 months warrant him being kept on or sacked it is whether he is the right man to take us forward and I am still undecided on that as I can see merits in both keeping him on and letting him go, dependent on replacement obviously. The pros to retaining him will be the continuity angle, the fact at this level he has an excellent record, the fact he knows the players, his contacts in terms of securing loan players and his vast experience which could be useful in what is likely to be a tough time for the club. The cons are that we are likely to have to rely heavily on promoting players from the under 23's something he isn't renowned for having done, his over cautious approach to games, whether at 58 he has the desire to do a rebuilding job with little funds and whether he will use those financial restraints to continually play down our future prospects.

For what it is worth I don't think he will be sacked and I think he may well back himself to still be able to take us forward so won't walk. I'd imagine by this time next week we will know for definite one way or the other.

I agree with that.....but how many times does it need to be said, before folk actually appreciate it. 

many say, yes I agree and proceed in a vein, that totally ignores it.

I get the doubt moving forward, but that is also another roll of the dice...especially after coming so close....Like you, I have no idea, which course is the best, but it would help if we knew who might be in the running should we want to change course.

Mark, Steve Bruce is by no means perfect....but some of the stuff aimed at him, is, well.

Is your first line (of which i think is hugely significant) another one to be ignored, by some.

[DaveAV1]

There seems to be a new reason that some people think we should keep Bruce, the reason being that his contacts will enable us to make some good loans because we can’t afford to buy anyone. The problem with the argument as I see it, is that his extensive contacts and player knowledge is based on ageing Premier League players coming to the end of their powers and on PL wages. Which is exactly the type of signings, purchased or loaned, that has got us into our current mess.

Surely we need a manager who’s contacts and knowledge is based on younger players, with talent and hunger who are on the type of wages we can actually afford. As younger players they will need coaching and development, not things that Steve Bruce has ever been noted for. The same applies to our own youngsters. We will of course need some experience in the squad but the majority, I would imagine, will be relatively young and inexperienced. 

[markavfc40]

4 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

There seems to be a new reason that some people think we should keep Bruce, the reason being that his contacts will enable us to make some good loans because we can’t afford to buy anyone. The problem with the argument as I see it, is that his extensive contacts and player knowledge is based on ageing Premier League players coming to the end of their powers and on PL wages. 

 

Of the 5 players we loaned last season two were 20 or under in Axel and Onomah, one was a young goalkeeper in Johnstone and the two experienced players were Snodgrass and Grabban. The only one I'd imagine who was on relatively big wages would be Snodgrass.

[Jareth]

It's a simple reason to keep bruce - he may not have played the yoof last season but he is 1.5 years in at this club and he will know the club and the U23s and he will have a good relationship with Round. I am as keen on some good football regularly as everyone else but we must be pragmatic right now - everyone agrees we will achieve nothing this season, so lets just strengthen the spirit and the relationships and plot for the future. 

[TRO]

40 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Tro you have to look at who he has done it with. We’re talking Huddersfield ffs! 

Edit: I also think what Warnock has achieved is incredible too. 

Rafa, Hughton and Dyche also superb but they’ve good foundations for a while now. 

I agree, they have had good foundations for a while.

We go down in unprecedented fashion with 3 wins all season.....and our bloke has no slack cut ffs.

This does very much sound like a winning default.....win or everything else would have to be shite.

VLV ....just give me a brief resume of the hypothetical scenario

Villa beat Fulham 1-0.....jack Grealish scoring......1 miserable goal over 49 games.

We get 100 million odd  snotters and all this crap is non existent.....and what would be the reaction on here in respect of the 2 managers?.....what would be the likely comments?

just for a bit of fun.....just give me a for instance.

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by TRO

[DCJonah]

Can't we just set up a steve bruce charity so some don't have to use weak excuses to justify keeping him in a job. 

If he is retained it will further support how low we continue to drop under our current owner. 

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I agree, they have had good foundations for a while.

We go down in unprecedented fashion with 3 wins all season.....and our bloke has no slack cut ffs.

This does very much sound like a winning default.....win or everything else would have to be shite.

VLV ....just give me a brief resume of the hypothetical scenario

Villa beat Fulham 1-0.....jack Grealish scoring.

We get 100 million odd  snotters and all this crap is non existent.....and what would be the reaction on here in respect of the 2 managers?.....what would be the likely comments?

just for a bit of fun.....just give me a for instance.

 

Actually the way it looks, it probably would have just delayed things. 

And the reaction would be different. But we didn't win, did we? He failed. For the 2nd consecutive season.

[Stevo985]

People are talking as if we can be picky. 

We’re on the brink of administration. Who exactly do you think will be coming here to manage the team if Bruce goes?

If the finances are as bad as they appear then we will not be chasing promotion next season. We’ll be battling to stay in the league. 

Were we going for promotion then I’d want a new manager. I am right on board with wanting Bruce gone in that scenario.

but if you think that’s the case then you’re more optimistic than me. 

We’ll be looking for someone to keep us afloat with a decimated squad and no money whatsoever. We’re not looking at the premier league here. We’re looking to not become the next Leeds or Portsmouth. 

If you think we’ll attract a better manager than Steve Bruce in those circumstances then you may be kidding yourself. 

[DaveAV1]

1 minute ago, markavfc40 said:

Of the 5 players we loaned last season two were 20 or under in Axel and Onomah, one was a young goalkeeper in Johnstone and the two experienced players were Snodgrass and Grabban. The only one I'd imagine who was on relatively big wages would be Snodgrass.

Ok I stand corrected, you’re quite right Mark. However they all came from PL clubs and as such, even though young, would probably be out of our reach wages wise if the tales of meltdown are true. Which is another debate of course. My point is, that I think out of necessity we need to look to the lower divisions and most importantly need a coach who can bring on younger players. And let’s face it Axel and Onomah hardly had big rolls to play. 

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

People are talking as if we can be picky. 

We’re on the brink of administration. Who exactly do you think will be coming here to manage the team if Bruce goes?

If the finances are as bad as they appear then we will not be chasing promotion next season. We’ll be battling to stay in the league. 

Were we going for promotion then I’d want a new manager. I am right on board with wanting Bruce gone in that scenario.

but if you think that’s the case then you’re more optimistic than me. 

We’ll be looking for someone to keep us afloat with a decimated squad and no money whatsoever. We’re not looking at the premier league here. We’re looking to not become the next Leeds or Portsmouth. 

If you think we’ll attract a better manager than Steve Bruce in those circumstances then you may be kidding yourself. 

I think we will attract a better manager who will start building something sustainable and with potential. Improved coaching of the younger players for a start, an actual consistent style of play. Might be a bit of a gamble but we should still have enough in the squad to stay up. 

For me thats better than wasting a year, giving bruce a complete free ride to have nothing to build on next summer. May as well start the process now. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I agree, they have had good foundations for a while.

We go down in unprecedented fashion with 3 wins all season.....and our bloke has no slack cut ffs.

This does very much sound like a winning default.....win or everything else would have to be shite.

VLV ....just give me a brief resume of the hypothetical scenario

Villa beat Fulham 1-0.....jack Grealish scoring......1 miserable goal over 49 games.

We get 100 million odd  snotters and all this crap is non existent.....and what would be the reaction on here in respect of the 2 managers?.....what would be the likely comments?

just for a bit of fun.....just give me a for instance.

 

He had slack cut for finishing 13 with what was still one of the best squads in the league even with it in apparent turmoil. 

If we had got promoted then Bruce would be being congratulated and rightly so. Some would have still wanted a change of manager but admitted he deserved a crack at the top flight. 

I get it’s fine margins but end of the day in my opinion he fell short by 9 whole points. Not by one goal.  Not good enough with what he had at his disposal. 

Tro I don’t see Bruce as the anti christ. I don’t care if he stays. I just totally understand people wanting him gone. I do not think he did enough to warrant such a defence of him! 

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

I think we will attract a better manager who will start building something sustainable and with potential. Improved coaching of the younger players for a start, an actual consistent style of play. Might be a bit of a gamble but we should still have enough in the squad to stay up. 

For me thats better than wasting a year, giving bruce a complete free ride to have nothing to build on next summer. May as well start the process now. 

“I think we will attract a better manager”

if so then brilliant. But I’d be very surprised given the financial situation. 

I think we’d sack Bruce and end up with whatever shite we can convince to do the job. 

It’s a massive gamble given the context. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

People are talking as if we can be picky. 

We’re on the brink of administration. Who exactly do you think will be coming here to manage the team if Bruce goes?

If the finances are as bad as they appear then we will not be chasing promotion next season. We’ll be battling to stay in the league. 

Were we going for promotion then I’d want a new manager. I am right on board with wanting Bruce gone in that scenario.

but if you think that’s the case then you’re more optimistic than me. 

We’ll be looking for someone to keep us afloat with a decimated squad and no money whatsoever. We’re not looking at the premier league here. We’re looking to not become the next Leeds or Portsmouth. 

If you think we’ll attract a better manager than Steve Bruce in those circumstances then you may be kidding yourself. 

The saddest part about this post is that it’s probably true. 

[Villarocker]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

Its easy, to be wise after the event, for all of us.

If we had done the sensible thing, everyone would say, we lack ambition.....truth is, there is no room at the inn, for other than winners.

We have done many things wrong, but there are degrees....some things were just plain stupid....some things any of us could have done.

We now talk about paying High wages and on the surface ,yes its extravagant.....but its the ones that draw them and give back **** all are the real fly in the ointment....we have just had too many.

 

 

But, during Ellis's regime, back in the days of Little and Gregory, Villa spent a lot of money on players and challenged towards the top of the league. We also won a couple of league cups and got to their first FA Cup final for 43 years.

Yes, there was lots of negativity and mistakes made during Ellis's last reign but the mistakes that have been made since he sold the club have threatened to see us get into serious financial trouble and have seen us relegated from the top flight. 

[Dave J]

24 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

What foundations are they? He has added to the mess he inherited. What will bruce leave to build on? 

Exactly - Bruce will go and leave a club in a state of  total disarray and whilst he is clearly not to blame for everything - he clearly is culpable on a footballing front - two failed promotion campaigns have led us to this door 

[TRO]

To be honest there is a part of me that hopes he goes.....more for his own good.

If I was in his ear now, I would say, try your luck somewhere else mate, it might be best in the long run.

just like Sam Allardyce  and Tony Pulis.....He will never be accepted in some quarters here.....even if we had of got promotion, some other angle would have been sought.

Most Albion fans wanted Tony out, it wasn't pretty....but it hasn't been for years at Albion....trouble was they were living in the past with the three degrees.

Albion always insisted on attractive football, even at the expense of winning....blimey, it looked like ping pong or blow football to me at times before Pulis or even lawn tennis, such was the sorties one end to the other.

Sam saves Everton from a slide and gets hounded out, by those that never wanted him in the first place, such gratitude, bet he wished he had let them drop.

We all want to play exciting football....but so do the opposition too.

[Jareth]

We need to be more like girls, valuing stability over the excitement of the new. At least that's how the wife justifies it. 

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Actually the way it looks, it probably would have just delayed things. 

And the reaction would be different. But we didn't win, did we? He failed. For the 2nd consecutive season.

but that was not the question.

There is always a value on the "If".....but in this case its just a one goal reverse.

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

“I think we will attract a better manager”

if so then brilliant. But I’d be very surprised given the financial situation. 

I think we’d sack Bruce and end up with whatever shite we can convince to do the job. 

It’s a massive gamble given the context. 

You missed the end of that sentence. I don't think we'd get a better manager outright, but i think we would get someone better at building something. 

I can't believe there are no young managers out there who would jump at the chance to build and coach the squad we have. Even with sales for ffp we should still have enough to stay up. 

I don't think replacing bruce is much of a gamble. We are already 12 months too late and look at the **** mess we are in, cemented by his failure.