sne Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Biggest issue for me is that we still don't seem to have a basic system down. Not talking about formations but rather movement patterns, both collective and individual. More than 12 months in and it's still 11 players on the field who seen to have no idea of what their teammate is going to do when he gets the ball. Thankfully we have among the best squads in the league and a couple of players who can create something out of nothing, but we still lack a collective way of playing in possession. Defensively it's a bit better, partly because more players are committed to defending than to attacking. For me it points to massive training ground issues, either down to players not bothered or more likely IMO, down to a lack of quality in coaches and backroom staff. As well as Bruce not being able to create a system/tactic or to get his coaches to develop it with the players. Or worse case scenario Bruce doesn't feel we even need those things and that it is enough to put players on the pitch and that their individual quality will do the job. I refuse to believe he can be that naive, but if he is he needs to go asap. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 39 minutes ago, terrytini said: It’s still my view that ‘retreating’ is actually a direct result of a ‘defence first’ policy. IMO we still play too deeply, we still ask the two wide guys to defend first, attack second, we still play with a foot on the brake. I don’t think it’s the players, and I agree it’s not the formation. It’s the approach. I’m always reminded of the Don Howe way from the seventies, whereas I think the fans, players, and results, would benefit more from a touch of Keegan from the nineties. I get your point and don't disagree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 27 minutes ago, villarocker said: I hear you mate but, take that first goal for example. It is clear to see that Bruce gave the players instructions to close ranks and make it difficult for the Wolves front three to play through us. The net result of that was that Elmohamady got so used to having Snodgrass the other side of him that he neglected his basic duty of marking the player that scored. Had Snodgrass not always been there helping out maybe Elmohamady would have taken care of his own job and the goal wouldn't have happened. Bruce needs to show trust in players to take care of their own game. If he thinks they aren't capable then it shows a lot of problems - recruitment, coaching, ability etc. Further to the above, think about a job. A guy might be great at his job but as soon as you move him into another area to help out he might not be so comfortable and even become a hindrance rather than a solution. Meanwhile, that person's own job is suffering because he isn't being able to concentrate fully on his own role. I think Bruce needs to show more faith. If he sees that back two has too slow or cumbersome then he surely has to take responsibility for that because it was he that made that our centre back pairing and there were no secrets about the lack of pace of the two players occupying those positions. You are not wrong.....its feasible points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, sne said: Biggest issue for me is that we still don't seem to have a basic system down. Not talking about formations but rather movement patterns, both collective and individual. More than 12 months in and it's still 11 players on the field who seen to have no idea of what their teammate is going to do when he gets the ball. Thankfully we have among the best squads in the league and a couple of players who can create something out of nothing, but we still lack a collective way of playing in possession. Defensively it's a bit better, partly because more players are committed to defending than to attacking. For me it points to massive training ground issues, either down to players not bothered or more likely IMO, down to a lack of quality in coaches and backroom staff. As well as Bruce not being able to create a system/tactic or to get his coaches to develop it with the players. Or worse case scenario Bruce doesn't feel we even need those things and that it is enough to put players on the pitch and that their individual quality will do the job. I refuse to believe he can be that naive, but if he is he needs to go asap. I don't believe he is that naive either......but the points you make are right, so why is it. can't they read the game? they should play balls in to space and let their mates run in to that space, that way we get caught in possession much less....we are too predictable to close down. is it a discipline thing, is it a mental thing or it it just a thing that they are more scared of losing, which inhibits their ability to win. I am just speculating.....but something is not right. The Wolves game was a wake up, but the Bolton game wasn't right either. Edited October 21, 2017 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 "They've scored four times in the last five minutes in the last month. "We'll be guarding against that." Part of Bruce's thoughts on today's game from the OS. I guess we can expect an all-hands-on-deck at the back approach from the 85th minute then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, villarocker said: "They've scored four times in the last five minutes in the last month. "We'll be guarding against that." Part of Bruce's thoughts on today's game from the OS. I guess we can expect an all-hands-on-deck at the back approach from the 85th minute then. "Batten down the hatches" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) I am beginning to think that the Xia/Bruce era is like the Lerner/ONeil era but entirely without the good bits. At least with the former we had a couple of good years, with the latter we have wasted alll the money with nothing but shite to show for it. I couldn't even get a glimmer of interest in going today from my kids, bloody depressing state of affairs with no sign of progress until Bruce goes. The best I can say is that all the over paid, over aged players and prima donas will be gone when we don’t go up this year and we might get.a decent coach in to work with the kids coming through. Villa may then develop an identity Edited October 21, 2017 by macandally 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 26 minutes ago, macandally said: I am beginning to think that the Xia/Bruce era is like the Lerner/ONeil era but entirely without the good bits. At least with the former we had a couple of good years, with the latter we have wasted alll the money with nothing but shite to show for it. I couldn't even get a glimmer of interest in going today from my kids, bloody depressing state of affairs with no sign of progress until Bruce goes. The best I can say is that all the over paid, over aged players and prima donas will be gone when we don’t go up this year and we might get.a decent coach in to work with the kids coming through. Villa may then develop an identity There's a post to put a smile on your face . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJT123 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 One 'bad' game and he drops Davis. Sums it up really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 hangs em out to dry Steve „Pass the Blame“ Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 1 hour ago, villarocker said: "They've scored four times in the last five minutes in the last month. "We'll be guarding against that." Part of Bruce's thoughts on today's game from the OS. I guess we can expect an all-hands-on-deck at the back approach from the 85th minute then. Even if we are down at that time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 44 minutes ago, Zatman said: Even if we are down at that time You’re right but the hatches could be battened down about 84 minutes earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 1 hour ago, KJT123 said: One 'bad' game and he drops Davis. Sums it up really. It does if you want him gone. Truth is, we've been completely dominant (granted, not winning anymore). Completely justified selection thus far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Good result today, nice work Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farlz Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Good tactical change. Very good win that as I was sure Fulham would walk all over us. Bring on next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjc Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 16 hours ago, TRO said: Hmmmm I'm glad i am not the one to make the call. Very fair point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dr_Pangloss Posted October 21, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted October 21, 2017 By and large the right line up and approach today, right move to bring Onomah in as he was our best player today. Didn't think his substitutions were any good and did put us more under the cosh in the last 10 minutes than we should have been, but immaterial given the result. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Is this the first time we have been in the top 6 since we have got relegated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Not often we can say this but he got it right today in the way we set up and pressed so they couldn't play it out from the back. Fair play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Dr_Pangloss said: By and large the right line up and approach today, right move to bring Onomah in as he was our best player today. Didn't think his substitutions were any good and did put us more under the cosh in the last 10 minutes than we should have been, but immaterial given the result. Would you have been slating him if we hadn't gone defensive against a team known for scoring late goals? It was the right move IMO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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