Steve Bruce

[Johnnyp]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

Absolutely, worth worrying about......do you propose playing russian roulette and send us back to the dark days of the las ten years.

yes, its easily done.

I understand the dilemma and your comments have validity,but there really is a lot to lose.

I do not have a fixation on what the answer is.....but if he leaves, i have a real concern on the void he will leave in respect of the stability of the club.

Not what i was proposing at all. Its not a case of sack bruce hire smith for example. Simple as. Our approach has to change in my opinion. How the board and owner wants us to play football. Who we sign has to mirror that and ultimately who manages the club. So i would hope at this very minute all these things are being looked at. Id argue this approach gives us a better chance long term than sticking with just because. You make valid point too but look tired today, the aftermath of it all and i just dont want to face into more 3pm kos against millwall and wigan at villa park , win 1-0 with 41% possession and be told "well thats the championship for you, no easy games etc etc. " Just tired of that mate sorry.

[Tomaszk]

13 minutes ago, TRO said:

Do you propose playing russian roulette and send us back to the dark days of the las ten years.

Well it's likely we're stuck here now.

And Bruce has played a huge role in that.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Tomaszk

[DCJonah]

18 minutes ago, TRO said:

Absolutely, worth worrying about......do you propose playing russian roulette and send us back to the dark days of the las ten years.

yes, its easily done.

I understand the dilemma and your comments have validity,but there really is a lot to lose.

I do not have a fixation on what the answer is.....but if he leaves, i have a real concern on the void he will leave in respect of the stability of the club.

Good lord. 

Replacing steve bruce is now russian roulette. Only he can possibly bring stability to a club.

Ridiculous. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by DCJonah

[sne]

The way we conceded the initiative to them in the first half highlight exactly why he must go.

It played right into their hands. Instead of putting pressure on a young inexperienced team we allowed then to play in the way they are most comfortable with, allowing them to focus on their strengths rather than the other way round.

Under Bruce we will always be the cowardly lion when it matters the most.

He's brought team spirit and other things back to the club, but when it comes to tactics and development he's sorely lacking.

He just has to go.

[markavfc40]

14 minutes ago, TRO said:

Or we over estimate them.....in terms of consistency.

we know what they are capable of.....but they didn't produce it, when it mattered, that is what consistency is all about.

Either way he is to blame isn't he. He put the squad together if it wasn't good enough to perform consistently be it due to tiredness or mental strength then that is on him. It is his squad.

I have repeatedly said that this squad was good enough to achieve promotion and I have praised the manager for putting it together. For me he didn't get enough out of it. I know you and others think that the squad was never good enough but that is still on the manager as he put that squad together.

He won't now have the finances to bring in the likes of Terry on 80k a week or pay the wages of Snodgrass on loan. He will have to cut his cloth a different way and I am not sure he has the where with all to do that and improve on this season. I am in no doubt the club will still be financially able to out do all but the three clubs who are relegated and should be capable of promotion. As I said previously my fear is Bruce will do as he did at times this season focus on the reduced finances and down play our chances and ambitions and that is the last thing we should be doing as we will still be in a far better position than most. 

That focusing on the negatives seems to be a trait with Bruce and it reflects in our play. He focuses too much on negating the other side rather than pushing the positives of what his team can do. My suspicion is that wouldn't change next season and in fact that down playing our chances, focusing on what he doesn't have rather than on what he does and the negative approach to games off the back of that will be enhanced.

Edited May 27, 2018 by markavfc40

[Supervillan78]

I think some players let him down badly yesterday and I don't think sacking him is the right thing to do either.

[Zatman]

The put all the strikers tactic didnt work in league games so i dont know why it was enforced again yesterday

[Stevo985]

22 minutes ago, sexbelowsound said:

I think it's this simple really.

If we're going to keep the vast majority of the squad, Bruce stays.

If we're going to lose a lot of them and look to bring in some of our younger players then Bruce needs to go.

Which of these I think is best at this stage i'm not sure.

This absolutely. 

Mid we could keep this squad, or most of it, then I’d be fine keeping Bruce. In fact I’d be very confident. 

But I don’t think we will. And I don’t think he’s he guy to oversee a rebuild. 

[Alakagom]

Playing russian roulette by sacking Bruce.

It's Bruce who has played russian roulette brining us into playoffs with the most expensive squad in history of Championship. 

 

[AshVilla]

As if were still contemplating whether Bruce should be given more time.

I thought he just needed this preseason to get things right.

Forget Russian Roulette i think there is a Bruce Excuse Roulette just give it a spin.

Edited May 27, 2018 by AshVilla

[TRO]

45 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

This is a tough one now in terms of what happens with Bruce. He was given enough resources to ensure we had enough to get promoted. Whether you think like I do that he assembled a good enough squad and didn't quite get enough out of them, or that he never actually assembled a good enough squad, either way he failed.

Now it is a case of whether that failure was big enough that he has to be sacked. Personally I don't think that failure alone is. We were two wins away from automatic and a whisker away from going up via the play offs.

The decision to retain him is not just about what happened this season though. It is about whether he is the man with reduced finances to reshape the squad. I don't think it is the major overhaul some people think. We'll lose Johnstone, Terry, Snodgrass, Onomah, Grabban and likely Hutton of those that played regularly this season. Kodjia and Green who missed most of the season will replace a couple of those and Bree will hopefully be ready for a full season. The likes of Murphy and O'Hare should hopefully be ready to be part of match day 18's week in week out so you are maybe looking at moving two or three more out and bringing 4 or 5 players in.

The thing that worries me with Bruce is that he may well down play our chances next season. Focus on the fact that three or four teams will have better finances than us. Set our bar to reach the play offs at best. That attitude for me isn't going to wash quite frankly. He would still be managing the biggest club in this division, still have better finances than most, far better than many, and still have the stature of the club to help attract players at this level and hopefully get the maximum out of all the players at the club by the very fact they play for such a big club. The positives of this club far out weigh the negatives and I want a manager to embrace, promote and feed off off those and set our ambitions as such.

The pro's of retaining Bruce are the continuity angle, the fact he knows the squad inside out, the fact he has got the vast experience and has shown he can get out of this division. The cons are that he failed this season, that I fear he will play on the fact we will have reduced finances, that his default position is to set up negatively and the suspicion that he may not be able to get the best out of our promising young players. He will also have pretty much no grace next season and a poor run and he will be under pressure.

The other unknown here of course is who would we replace him with.

Whatever we decide to do we need to decide quickly. If he is staying come out and confirm that with in the coming days and we get on with planning for next season. If not move him on and get someone else in and give them the maximum time possible. The season starts in under 10 weeks so there is no time for messing about.

I share most of those thoughts plus.

• Is the big club syndrome an actual albatross around our necks, we simply have to find players that can do the business....not be obsessed with finances.The expectation should not be governed by the size of the stadium or the reputation on a team sheet or te history o the club......its what they do on match day,that will shape our future.....no what they should do.
• I would still like to see a tad more muscle in key area's of our team, much like cardiff shown....i think is important in this league,with poor refs.
• I think the amount of games we played allied to the age of our players and the physicality of this league caught up with us.
• We set up with 2 wingers, they need be at it for us to gain the initiative, as the season ended,they struggled in general compared to earlier in te season...that leaves you short elsewhere.
• I do think we need a rethink in how we set up......The containment and catch them on the break style, has relaunched our pride and stabilised the club.....We now need to be looking to build a team that is more believeable from the first minute.taking the initiative to the opposition should be te blue print.
• We need to drastically reduce the average age of the first team.
• I also think we should be breeding more physically equipped academy players, particularly midfield.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39860126

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, Ingram85 said:

If you set up to play negatively and cautiously in a **** play off final of all games then you don’t deserve the job. 

Especially when it's arguably the biggest and most expensive team In the league.

[Keyblade]

17 minutes ago, Alakagom said:

Playing russian roulette by sacking Bruce.

It's Bruce who has played russian roulette brining us into playoffs with the most expensive squad in history of Championship. 

 

Honestly, I want to see what another guy can do with this team regardless. He's been with us for almost 2 seasons and failed to get us promoted in both. What's going to change next year, especially when we'll be weaker financially? We need new ideas.

[villabromsgrove]

You don't just turn up at the most important game of the season and expect the players to lace up their boots and go out there to somehow win the match. You have to coach a system of football from pre season through the next forty six games so that the team instinctively click into their 'system' every time they play. Wolves do this, Fulham do this, Cardiff do this, even little Brentford do it, but we have a manager who doesn't really do tactics, and that was obvious in the first half yesterday.

Bruce has an outdated belief that all you need is a happy and united squad and the results will take care of themselves. He believes that as long as you set up not to lose, then you might sneak a win.  

Other managers believe that you teach footballers individually and collectively to play a winning system. Bruce insists on setting up as the underdogs every time we play, even though we usually have slightly better players than the opposition.

We might have a positive dressing room, but we have a fearfully negative team ethic on the pitch. That is totally down to Bruce and it is why he has to go. 

[TRO]

28 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Either way he is to blame isn't he. He put the squad together if it wasn't good enough to perform consistently be it due to tiredness or mental strength then that is on him. It is his squad.

I have repeatedly said that this squad was good enough to achieve promotion and I have praised the manager for putting it together. For me he didn't get enough out of it. I know you and others think that the squad was never good enough but that is still on the manager as he put that squad together.

He won't now have the finances to bring in the likes of Terry on 80k a week or pay the wages of Snodgrass on loan. He will have to cut his cloth a different way and I am not sure he has the where with all to do that and improve on this season. I am in no doubt the club will still be financially able to out do all but the three clubs who are relegated and should be capable of promotion. As I said previously my fear is Bruce will do as he did at times this season focus on the reduced finances and down play our chances and ambitions and that is the last thing we should be doing as we will still be in a far better position than most. 

That focusing on the negatives seems to be a trait with Bruce and it reflects in our play. He focuses too much on negating the other side rather than pushing the positives of what his team can do. My suspicion is that wouldn't change next season and in fact that down playing our chances, focusing on what he doesn't have rather than on what he does and the negative approach to games off the back of that will be enhanced.

Yes, he is Mark.....and I endorse all what you say.

but as an example Cardiff managed to do it with modest finances and a clear aproach.

I don't to character assasinate our season or our manager, but for me our team is neither one thing or the other....We are not Cardiff,we don't have the muscle.....We are not Fulham, we don't have the ball control or movement.....We are not Wolves, we don't have the technique or effervesence......as a team.

Jack Grealish,was never going to get us promotion on his own and we have put too much on his shoulders,but that is the standard we need more of to succeed....

We are fairly predictable as an entity and rely so much for our creativity from our two wingers.....when they don't play do their bit,we look stale an our idea,s redundant.

I think a rethink is required and a clear identity established.

I dont know how long these things take, but I suspect its not a quick fix.

 

[sne]

Just now, TRO said:

 

I think a rethink is required and a clear identity established.

I dont know how long these things take, but I suspect its not a quick fix.

 

I agree with all that, but I honestly don't think Bruce is the guy for that job.

He has managerial qualities, but those things are not his forte.

I just don't think he has it in him, especially not now after all that has happened.

We need a new start under a new manager.

[VillanousOne]

Bruce is not purely blame for this, but now the big spending days are over thanks to FFP, we can't afford to have a giant expensive bomb squad of players that we are still losing huge sums of cash on.

Carles Gil, Gollini, McCormack, Richards, Tishibola need reintegrating if we can't permanently sell them this summer. But it won't happen under Bruce.

Lansbury has to be played or sold, Hogan has to be started and the formation adjusted to play to his strengths (even if most say he doesn't have any). I don't even know why Bjarnason would stay after his stop start career.

No idea if Steer will recover fully from his latest injury - but there is no way Johnstone won't be bought by a Premiership club now as he has proven he is at that level.

I presume we are stuck with Whelan for another year on his contract?

The more I consider what will happen next and what has already happened the more I just want Bruce to walk away as I just can't see how things will improve under him.

 

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, VillanousOne said:

Bruce is not purely blame for this, but now the big spending days are over thanks to FFP, we can't afford to have a giant expensive bomb squad of players that we are still losing huge sums of cash on.

Carles Gil, Gollini, McCormack, Richards, Tishibola need reintegrating if we can't permanently sell them this summer. But it won't happen under Bruce.

Lansbury has to be played or sold, Hogan has to be started and the formation adjusted to play to his strengths (even if most say he doesn't have any). I don't even know why Bjarnason would stay after his stop start career.

No idea if Steer will recover fully from his latest injury - but there is no way Johnstone won't be bought by a Premiership club now as he has proven he is at that level.

I presume we are stuck with Whelan for another year on his contract?

The more I consider what will happen next and what has already happened the more I just want Bruce to walk away as I just can't see how things will improve under him.

 

Why?

[Dave J]

44 minutes ago, TRO said:

Maybe because he felt he had to....you play to the strength of your players.

but our goals for, during the season does not suggest we are inherently negative, we just try a way to win with what we have got.....maybe the teams that have gained promotion, were simply better.

4 against Wolves....4 against Ipswich.....5 against Bristol....does that sound negative?

No ?....we never turned up for whatever reason and they did.

I don't think the systems 4-1-4-1 v 4-3-3 had a bearing either....games morph anyway during play....they were better individually and subsequently collectively.

They had their better players imposing themselves, we didn't.

TRO - with the very greatest of respect what we saw yesterday was negative intent with a negative outcome - I don't think I can view it any other way tbh with you.

[jacketspuds]

Given the fact that we will likely have limited resources available next season I would like to see what a new manager can do with the squad. We should take a chance on finding someone a bit more like Jokanovic, Wagner or NES, who could make better use of some of our fringe / youth players.