Steve Bruce

[ozvillafan]

26 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I think that is too simplistic a way of looking at things. We came within two wins of automatic promotion. Within a whisker of going up through the play offs. I'd go as far to say had Grealish have been fit all season instead of half of it we'd have been at least six points better and promoted.

Having said that I think the squad he assembled was good enough for promotion but he didn't get enough out of them so he failed in that regard. He got that close though that based on what we did last season wouldn't for me warrant him getting the sack. Him staying or going has to be based on whether or not you think he is the right man going into next season and if you think we can attract someone more able to get us promoted.

Either way the club need to come out in the next few days and confirm he is staying or sack him.

Your highlighted sentence is the key for me. Every team has injuries/suspensions to key players. That is what the squad is there for, and Bruce did not do enough with the resources he had.

Now that the squad is likely to be less quality with the loss of experience and, potentially, our best player in Jack Grealish, the chances of success are slimmer than they were this season. Having failed when it was easier to succeed I have no confidence Bruce can go on to do the job.

[A'Villan]

2 minutes ago, Eastie said:

He certainly never got Sunderland to their highest ever league finish .

I think you'll find that he did. I could be wrong though. 10th. Brought in Sessegnon and Muntari from memory.

[Nabby]

23 minutes ago, villarocker said:

During the last bad spell the fans were moaning about how negative we are and that we shouldn't play that way. Lessons needed to be learned but they weren't because that first half yesterday was exactly the same as that away at Wolves, back in October.

Pace and height are our weaknesses. The lack of height and pace in the central defensive areas is killing us. He plays Jedinak to give the added height at the back and he's slower than both Chester and Terry and because of that we have the full backs tucking in to protect them and then the wingers come back to cover the full backs, nullifying our attacking threat and inviting pressure. 

We needed to replace Jedinak with Bjarnason at half time yesterday and get Kodjia on earlier than he did. We lacked pace and that cost us dearly. That needs to change. No more Jedinak and Terry please. Bring a faster, taller centre back in to partner Chester and either stick with Bjarnason in front of the back four or buy/loan another player to play there. 

Good description of our issues especially the lack of pace meaning the wingers covering in defence too much .In general with Bruce I have felt waits to long to make changes then when he does they are rarely effective.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

I have listened to a few of his interviews from yesterday and the thing that most stood out is him saying we were too cautious and negative in the first half. He said he didn't know if that was the heat or the occasion so suggesting it wasn't the intention or part of the plan. I think he needs to be honest with himself here. The way we played in the first half yesterday is the way we have played in numerous games this season be it for a whole game or the odd half. He has to look at himself and how he is setting the team up and what he is instructing the players to do be it in the lead up to games or at half time. It is clearly a tactic to play on the back foot and focus on negating the opposition as it happens so often. 

If he is to stay that over emphasis on stopping the opposition rather than pushing the positives of what his players can do and putting the opposition on the back foot right from the get go has to change. I am not sure he is capable of initiating that change though and suspect being so long in the tooth that he isn't.

Not that it matters but I have given Bruce a bit of a bashing this morning and it doesn't sit comfortably with me as I think he is very decent man who does his best. You only to listen to the recent interview with Grealish to know what the players think of him. Added to that he has been through a lot this season losing both his parents but never gave less than his all for us. There is no room for sentiment I guess though in terms of what is best for the club going forward.

Interesting that.

I have heard previous interviews where he is at odds with what has been played out.

There is clearly a blindspot here of what he wants and what he is getting.

I am not sure what to say on that Mark.....but its very concerning If he doesn't know.

I have long held the view that some of the stuff I have watched, he can't have planned or be happy with that, such has been my comments.

But he has to sort it out.....If we are too negative and if its not part of his plan, then it could be fear from the individual player.

You are right, he has to come clean and say it as it is......He has been at this game for too long not to know.......He has to deal with it.

Edited May 27, 2018 by TRO

[vreitti]

41 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Well firstly they are a premier league club alone that finished twelfth meanwhile at villa we have no money a aging squad and finished 4th despite being one of those he favourites to win the league.

eddie Howe is not going to drop to the championship get real. 

Like I said if Bruce were to be dismissed and i din5 think he will. But if he was it will be someone out of work or another championship club. Someone like wilder Harris 

for me I’d go for raneri

I don't care, we are still Villa, and Bournemouth is still just Bournemouth. Perhaps history or size doesn't mean anything to the younger generations, but it means something to me.

He'd probably be able to build something sustainable here, that one day even might challenge for upper echelons of the premier league. That'll not happen at Bournemouth.

Tbh I ain't to bothered anyways, because Howe isn't anything special. 

 

[skarroki]

5 minutes ago, vreitti said:

I don't care, we are still Villa, and Bournemouth is still just Bournemouth. Perhaps history or size doesn't mean anything to the younger generations, but it means something to me.

He'd probably be able to build something sustainable here, that one day even might challenge for upper echelons of the premier league. That'll not happen at Bournemouth.

Tbh I ain't to bothered anyways, because Howe isn't anything special. 

 

We're not getting in anybody as good or better than Howe and we're not getting a manager from a top European division. You can't expect anyone in football to commit career suicide because Villa used to win trophies before they were born. 

[A'Villan]

24 minutes ago, Eastie said:

No idea who told you that but He certainly never got Sunderland to their highest ever league finish .

You are right. I was talking about the PL but that still wouldn't be correct.

2nd highest though.

Edited May 27, 2018 by A'Villan

[Stevo985]

11 minutes ago, vreitti said:

I don't care, we are still Villa, and Bournemouth is still just Bournemouth. Perhaps history or size doesn't mean anything to the younger generations, but it means something to me.

He'd probably be able to build something sustainable here, that one day even might challenge for upper echelons of the premier league. That'll not happen at Bournemouth.

Tbh I ain't to bothered anyways, because Howe isn't anything special. 

 

It might mean something to you, but that’s irrelevant to the point. 

It’s highly unlikely that any manager in the premier league will drop down to the Prem without being sacked first. 

You can say “we are Aston Villa” all you like. It doesn’t change that. 

[vreitti]

1 minute ago, skarroki said:

We're not getting in anybody as good or better than Howe and we're not getting a manager from a top European division. You can't expect anyone in football to commit career suicide because Villa used to win trophies before they were born. 

Would hardly be career suicide managing the Villa. We are still a big club, with a proud history. Just look at our fantastic away support. Stop the hyperbole.

[vreitti]

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

It might mean something to you, but that’s irrelevant to the point. 

It’s highly unlikely that any manager in the premier league will drop down to the Prem without being sacked first. 

You can say “we are Aston Villa” all you like. It doesn’t change that. 

Absolutely, and I agree, it is unlikely anyone might drop down a division, but it's not unthinkable. 

We just need to Identify the correct manager, wanting a fresh challenge. I'm certainly no expert when it comes to managers. I think Howe is okay, but like I said, nothing special. Tbh there aren't all that many great managers in Premier League nowadays.

[holteend1982]

30 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

I think you'll find that he did. I could be wrong though. 10th. Brought in Sessegnon and Muntari from memory.

Finished 7th in 2001 mate but since then 10th with Bruce is their highest, they usually around the 16th 17th place finish. 

[Cliffy Biro]

3 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Would hardly be career suicide managing the Villa. We are still a big club, with a proud history. Just look at our fantastic away support. Stop the hyperbole.

Are we really a big club though, how long can we keep saying it as some kind of reason as to why we should be doing better but then consistently be average/poor?

[TRO]

I have no idea what the true feelings are of both parties, SB or the club.

I can only guess, what will happen.....I would think the overriding backdrop will be, "why spoil the ship for a ha'penth of tar"

We have come very close to it, despite a slow start and long term injuries to our key players....that will not go unnoticed.

Fulham came close last season and got it this time around, that will not go unnoticed either.

There are clearly further issues on the playing side, that can't go unchecked either, but its much easier to tweak than to rebuild.

It will all depend on how the two camps see it....to see where we go from here.

[holteend1982]

Just now, Cliffy Biro said:

Are we really a big club though, how long can we keep saying it as some kind of reason as to why we should be doing better but then consistently be average/poor?

Tottaly agree, this is now our 3rd season in the championship which comes after 5 years straight of scrapping relegation. We have a good history but I lt doesn't give us any right to be walking the championship like a lot of our fans expect. 

[vreitti]

4 minutes ago, Cliffy Biro said:

Are we really a big club though, how long can we keep saying it as some kind of reason as to why we should be doing better but then consistently be average/poor?

Well at least Bruce seem to think so, as he keeps mentioning it almost in every interview. 

I agree, it shouldn't be used as an excuse. 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, holteend1982 said:

Tottaly agree, this is now our 3rd season in the championship which comes after 5 years straight of scrapping relegation. We have a good history but I lt doesn't give us any right to be walking the championship like a lot of our fans expect. 

We will only walk the championship ,when we deserve to.

[Eastie]

40 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

I think you'll find that he did. I could be wrong though. 10th. Brought in Sessegnon and Muntari from memory.

Peter Reid 7th place twice !

[Vive_La_Villa]

14 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Would hardly be career suicide managing the Villa. We are still a big club, with a proud history. Just look at our fantastic away support. Stop the hyperbole.

Very unlikely to get a top manager unless we have money to spend.  It’s career suicide managing us on a budget. 

[Cliffy Biro]

4 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Well at least Bruce seem to think so, as he keeps mentioning it almost in every interview. 

I agree, it shouldn't be used as an excuse. 

All managers say it, Monk said something about a "Big, historic club" when he took over at Blues, what the **** in the world is big and historic about the blues?

[TRO]

5 hours ago, striker said:

Bruce generally put all his eggs in one basket and opted for experience in the transfer market. One team built to get out of the Championship and two others then to stabilise and push on in the Premier League we were told (Not by Bruce to be fair).

The problem with the first team was and many called it, too many players signed in the twilight of their careers who were then expected to execute a physical system over a very long arduous season in the Championship.

Bruce was asking Adomah and Snodgrass to continually provide attacking intent while also covering for suspect full backs and no surprise when both players were affected by fatigue even before the playoff final. That cut Villa's offensive capability in halve hence too much reliance on keeping a clean sheet for most of the season and indeed on Grealish when he came back.

The signing of Whelan added to the aging Jedinak was never going to be the way forward especially with Terry at the heart of the defence and that was again noted on here. Villa's play for the most part this season was predestrain, laboured and predicable which was in contrast to two of the three teams promoted. That should now be a lesson learnt by the board and chairman.

The way of Bruce's type of management has now gone. Moyes sacked. Big Sam also sacked and if Villa are to move forward then the same must happen to Bruce.

With players out of contract, players returning from loans and players no longer having the legs for yet another Championship season it is now time for a new young vibrant Villa which is already there in the U23s.

UTV.

 

I think that is a very good and rounded post and one I largely agree with.

Lets me add a couple of things.

In the initial stages a manager has to take stock of the situation......This has been mooted many,many times, but I think it gets lost in some summings up.

Our situation, when he took over was a total mess, built up over about 8 seasons and a collection of managers....You cannot "boil the ocean" in one go.

Managers are rightly judged on the teams performances but we had a culture out of control....and the speed of their mark comes from a couple of things their ability and whats been left behind....Steve Bruce had a derelict building that he had to demolish and excavate before he even started building.....sorry, but that simply cannot be underestimated or air brushed out as an excuse.

I am in no way excusing that game yesterday.....and those kind of performances and approaches must cease

Next season

Despite our yearning for throwing the baby out with the bath water, I think we are in danger of learning nothing from the past and the naive decisions made.....To be fair....I can understand the feelings and in no way am I attempting to defend that timid performance...we have players of the past who would be very disappointed in that showing.

The culture bit is primarily over the stability of the club in terms of player attitudes is fixed.....We now, moving forward, need a blueprint of how we are intending to play.....we need the right players to fit what we expect of them and the business of players covering for one an other in the sense of constantly coming to their aid must stop( of course on the odd occasion it happens) players have to punch their weight.

I don't think it is all doom and gloom, but I do think doing nothing, will not suffice.....clear, decisive action in the way we play is crucial....drifting in to next season is not an option and the right players( not necessarily expensive ones )need to be brought in.

I think he will be kept on for a few reasons..

• The club hasn't got the money to offer a manager who would be looking for it to carry out his plan.
• He still finished 4th and a play off final.....as disappointed as we all are.....it still cannot go unnoticed.
• The manager has created so much good work....He will be given one more season to get it right.
• The disruption of the playing staff, could set us further back than we anticipate.
• There are no guarantee's from the next man, who ever he is.....it will just be a throw of the dice.

I will guess that a lot depends on how the aftermath meeting goes as the whether he will be our manager next season or not......but things have to improve further than what they have.