Steve Bruce

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

You don't just turn up at the most important game of the season and expect the players to lace up their boots and go out there to somehow win the match. You have to coach a system of football from pre season through the next forty six games so that the team instinctively click into their 'system' every time they play. Wolves do this, Fulham do this, Cardiff do this, even little Brentford do it, but we have a manager who doesn't really do tactics, and that was obvious in the first half yesterday.

Bruce has an outdated belief that all you need is a happy and united squad and the results will take care of themselves. He believes that as long as you set up not to lose, then you might sneak a win.  

Other managers believe that you teach footballers individually and collectively to play a winning system. Bruce insists on setting up as the underdogs every time we play, even though we usually have slightly better players than the opposition.

We might have a positive dressing room, but we have a fearfully negative team ethic on the pitch. That is totally down to Bruce and it is why he has to go. 

Those teams you mention also have better and more effecive players.

Example

Liverpool lose Mo....and it sent shockwaves though the team, Goalie decided to go awol....so much for Klopps plans and pre work.

I accept Bruce sets up to contain and it gets tedious.....everyone has their views and I respect them.....If he goes, he goes.

For me i have reservations of the balance of the team, and the ability of players to give a required level of consistency......yes thats Bruces responsibilty.

There are many aspects of his job, some appear good,some not so good.

i guess the club will decide what to do for the best.

[markavfc40]

22 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

I think a rethink is required and a clear identity established.

I dont know how long these things take, but I suspect its not a quick fix.

 

We'd all agree with that. The question is then do you think the manager we have now is capable of establishing a clear identity and clear way of playing. As you alluded to in another post for a start we need to start games on the front foot and stop being so cautious and so focused on stopping the opposition.

We don't have a defined style of play. We are just as likely to play as we did against Wolves, Bristol, Sha at home as we are against Wolves, Norwich, Hull away. Yesterday summed us up a treat in the way we played first half to the way we played in the second.

Bruce is not an unknown entity. He is 58 years old. Can he suddenly put a side together, with reduced finances, to consistently play on the front foot and take the game to the opposition week in week out. Or will he always end up resorting to what has always been his default for pretty much 20 years in management which is firstly to negate the opposition and then hope to take a chance at the other end. I think it is a stretch to say he will change what he has done , and what in fairness has worked at this level especially, throughout his managerial career.

For me you can forget Bruce changing his style and doing any different to what he has always done. It is then whether you think what he has done this season is capable of taking us one step further next season. If you don't then you have to want him out.

 

Edited May 27, 2018 by markavfc40

[jim]

38 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Honestly, I want to see what another guy can do with this team regardless. He's been with us for almost 2 seasons and failed to get us promoted in both. What's going to change next year, especially when we'll be weaker financially? We need new ideas.

Nail on head.

Nothing will change next year if we keep Bruce.  

This was his chance and he blew it! The squad needs rebuilding so let a new coach have a go!

 

[villabromsgrove]

I don't think we need a period of reflection. Our weaknesses have been obvious through a long and in the end unsuccessful season. We should be prepared to act right now.

The play offs have already delayed us by a couple of weeks and in a little over a month we'll be back in pre season training.

Given that we will be on a much tighter budget next season, and we may well have to bring on and develop some of our best young players, we need a new manager in place immediately so that he can plan to hit the ground running in a few weeks time.

I'd be ringing Dean Smith right now, because we're no longer shopping in "the Mailbox" .... we're battling in "the Bullring" for bargains, and our choice of the next manager should reflect this. 

[macandally]

Aston Villa do not need a Manager now, they need a top class, proven coach.  This is not a case of running everything from top to bottom, we have other people to do that, it is moulding what is left plus the exciting crop of youngsters into the future of the club.  It is about getting the team to evolve into something that is better than its individual parts.  It is about developing the player which develops the team.  It is about creating a style that not only gets us up, but permeates the whole youth set up so everyone identifies with it.  I have no confidence in Bruce to do any of that.

When Round came in he spoke of developing the “Villa Identity”.  The fact of the matter is after two years we still do not have one.  We now have to think smarter and longer term.  The quick fix didn’t work but we shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water, let’s take the exciting crop of youngsters we have and build a sustainable team that embodies that identity, that is driven by a burning desire to succeed and is capable of taking us up and more importantly keeping us there.

[sne]

1 minute ago, macandally said:

Aston Villa do not need a Manager now, they need a top class, proven coach.  This is not a case of running everything from top to bottom, we have other people to do that, it is moulding what is left plus the exciting crop of youngsters into the future of the club.  It is about getting the team to evolve into something that is better than its individual parts.  It is about developing the player which develops the team.  It is about creating a style that not only gets us up, but permeates the whole youth set up so everyone identifies with it.  I have no confidence in Bruce to do any of that.

When Round came in he spoke of developing the “Villa Identity”.  The fact of the matter is after two years we still do not have one.  We now have to think smarter and longer term.  The quick fix didn’t work but we shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water, let’s take the exciting crop of youngsters we have and build a sustainable team that embodies that identity, that is driven by a burning desire to succeed and is capable of taking us up and more importantly keeping us there.

We've bought in really expensive parts for the "Villa engine" but we've not gotten someone in who can assemble them into a functioning unit.

[vreitti]

18 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

For me you can forget Bruce changing his style and doing any different to what he has always done. It is then whether you think what he has done this season is capable of taking us one step further next season. If you don't then you have to want him out.

Right on the money. It really is this simple.

[A'Villan]

There's a part of me that thinks Bruce might be able to do it on a tighter budget.

He has proven he is competent at least, for this level. Even with us. We went all season long virtually in contention for automatic and lost in the final by the smallest of margins.

Yes, coaching and tactics have let us down, but other qualities nearly took us all the way. I know, nearly not being good enough.

He did well in the transfer market, perhaps he can do it again. That's actually one department where by he could do us a service in my book.

The flipside is he doesn't inspire any confidence in me for changing his ways, where he needs to.

As someone rightfully pointed out, he has a negative focus at times, both tactically and in his rationale. As opposed to embracing the challenge and owning it.

Unfortunately I too could easily see a slump in ambition as a result of reduced funds and tactical shortcomings, and if this were to be the case, he's not the man to take us forward.

[markavfc40]

10 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

I don't think we need a period of reflection. Our weaknesses have been obvious through a long and in the end unsuccessful season. We should be prepared to act right now.

The play offs have already delayed us by a couple of weeks and in a little over a month we'll be back in pre season training.

I agree with this in terms of there is zero time to reflect. In fairness for the last couple of months we have known we were either in the Championship or top flight and should have prepared for both eventualities and that includes with regard to the manager. If we are to change then do it now and get a new man in asap and again they should already have identified a short list of who that would be. Likewise if Bruce is staying them come out and say he is so we all know where we stand.

I'd like to think the days of faffing about without a plan as we did under Lerner for half a dozen years are long gone and this is now an opportunity for the club to prove that.

[Demitri_C]

2 hours ago, Dave J said:

Well putting aside the result - is anyone really surprised by that performance ? Let's be honest about it - it's his DNA and for me sums up his tenure.

sure we have had a good run since xmas but even this run has been littered with some dross imo at times .

We are way too bang average and inconsistent and this is why we are who we are - we haven't done enough to deserve to go up again imo and it's his fault entirely - someone on here said that all Bruce does is chase the better players for the division - which is very easy when your ASTON VILLA big club big fan base big wages and so forth,  but when it comes to moulding a team I'm afraid he does not cut the mustard for me, anyone can sign players for ASTON VILLA 

I do not dislike the man at all - however he should go now and allow us to concentrate on an even more difficult task next season - for the life of me I just can't see how or why he should be given another opportunity - what has he shown to suggest he can go again and do better next year.

i would love to see Eddie Howe approached - young stylish manager who knows how to win promotion playing the right way - might be a pipe dream but I'd still like to see us try.

Eddie Howe 

Sorry Dave but that is mental thinking we can attract that calibre of manager.  It will be either someone out if work or a uo and coming manager. I'll tell you who I rate and I think he could do really well here, Neil Harris.

[StefanAVFC]

9 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

There's a part of me that thinks Bruce might be able to do it on a tighter budget.

When has he ever done that? He is a cheque-book manager.

[Johnnyp]

4 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Eddie Howe 

Sorry Dave but that is mental thinking we can attract that calibre of manager.  It will be either someone out if work or a uo and coming manager. I'll tell you who I rate and I think he could do really well here, Neil Harris.

I dunno. Id like to see harris cut it at another club of millwalls ilk before he came here. Just think playing with them most of his professional career and managing them there he's been able to get an extra gear out of them because he knows the club so well.

[vreitti]

4 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Eddie Howe 

Sorry Dave but that is mental thinking we can attract that calibre of manager.  It will be either someone out if work or a uo and coming manager. I'll tell you who I rate and I think he could do really well here, Neil Harris.

Honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Why on earth wouldn't we be able to get someone like Eddie Howe? What has he ever done in football? He is the manager of Bournemouth, not Barcelona, for fuchs sake.

[briny_ear]

3 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

Oops, yes, my mistake, i did add that after I posted, and gave you a stupid get out of jail as you still didn't answer the original question.......

Well the original question is a long time ago now and hardly relevant now we know our fate for next season.

But FYI the rewriting of the past was to claim a lot of our victories last season cane through luck; and the wild speculation was that our fate was to become a yo-yo team.

Now can I kindly suggest that a few well-gnawed bones are dropped and attention is turned to how next season will go given our failure to reclaim our premier league place.

Edited May 27, 2018 by briny_ear

[mikeyp102]

6 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Why on earth wouldn't we be able to get someone like Eddie Howe? What has he ever done in football? He is the manager of Bournemouth, not Barcelona, for fuchs sake.

Why would someone step down from the premier league to a championship club? Especially when he has big connections with that premier league club 

[Davkaus]

5 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Why on earth wouldn't we be able to get someone like Eddie Howe? What has he ever done in football? He is the manager of Bournemouth, not Barcelona, for fuchs sake.

Bournemouth finished 12th in the Premier League. He has a fairly young, capable squad he knows and has put together himself, and Premier League money to spend.

Why the **** would he give that up to come and take on a massive rebuild job at a club a division below, that quite likely isn't going to have a pot to piss in this summer? Because we're historically a 'big club'? Nobody gives a toss these days.  Premier League status > A Championship club that won some stuff decades ago. 

[KJT123]

If we have exactly the same squad as this year, as well as a fit Grealish for the whole season, I have no doubt in my mind we'll get automatic promotion next year with Bruce as manager.

But we're going to lose Johnstone, Terry, Snodgrass, Grabban and maybe even Grealish.

Is Bruce capable of dealing with that? Not a chance.

But then again, getting a new exciting manager in for the start of the season is going to be a risk. Look at Fulham this year - they only clicked at the end of November. We could get a new manager in and we might be out of the picture even before the halfway point.

[briny_ear]

10 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Why on earth wouldn't we be able to get someone like Eddie Howe? What has he ever done in football? He is the manager of Bournemouth, not Barcelona, for fuchs sake.

If I was Eddie Howe I would take a hard look at Bournemouth, what they have achieved, and how my role as manager there is likely to consolidate and develop; and then at Villa, still floundering to be frank, a massive but underachieving club with an enforced cost reduction programme to commence this summer.

And I would chose to stay with Bournemouth. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by briny_ear

[PompeyVillan]

He's the right man for the job as far as I'm concerned, but I wouldn't be against considering other options. 

Bruce has built a team lacking pace up front and unable to retain possession against better teams. That's down to personnel as much as tactics I think. Bruce does seem to be able to get the most out of his players, at least in terms of commitment. 

The pressure now is on Steve Round and his team, what a horrible job they have this summer. Cut costs and recruit players capable of a promotion push . 

I think Villa are starting to build a footballing identity, that's what Round has spoken about in the past. I'm not 100% what that looks like just yet, I think it needs to  evolve. Whatever we do, we need to be true to our identity, so that means knowing what style of football we want our managers to play. If we do bring someone else we can't expect them to box another teams style for example Fulham or Wolves and make it work here. If we want that, we need to spend time working towards it. 

[Johnnyp]

4 minutes ago, KJT123 said:

If we have exactly the same squad as this year, as well as a fit Grealish for the whole season, I have no doubt in my mind we'll get automatic promotion next year with Bruce as manager.

But we're going to lose Johnstone, Terry, Snodgrass, Grabban and maybe even Grealish.

Is Bruce capable of dealing with that? Not a chance.

But then again, getting a new exciting manager in for the start of the season is going to be a risk. Look at Fulham this year - they only clicked at the end of November. We could get a new manager in and we might be out of the picture even before the halfway point.

Which is all the more reason for Xia and Wyness to act swiftly.