Villa Park redevelopment

[sidcow]

17 minutes ago, limpid said:

Again. Villa Park redevelopment isn't about seats (have you read the thread?). When do you think the club should make the plans? Considering how slow the planning process is and how many parties need to be involved in transport plans, this needs to be happening continuously.

Yes, seats sold are almost an irrelevance these days. 

But increased corporate offerings, meeting rooms, conference space, exhibition space etc can add a load.

I've been to corporate hospitality in The North stand and in The Trinity and it is world's apart. 

HSBC and various other enormous companies are moving head offices from London to Birmingham, the amount of Grade A offices being built in Brum is staggering. I would think there is masses of untapped Corporate business to attract in the next few years. 

When we return to The Premier League you don't want to try and sell a corporate package to some top company using some cramped, tatty massively unsuitable facilities that are like a 70's timewarp, they will not want to take their important clients to it. 

Last couple of times I went to corporate in The North Stand, it took nearly the whole of half time to fight through the crowds queuing for toilets and food and generally hanging around the aisles just to get back to our table. 

You sit down and it's time to go back to the seats. 

The whole design of the stand is just not conducive to good quality corporate seat's therefore I am guessing they are sold very cheap compared to what most corporates do losing much revenue. 

Incidentally the food has always been excellent, really good when I have been. 

But The Trinity feels like a whole different ball game, you do really feel like you are somewhere special. 

[VillaChris]

Hardly anyone was in the Trinity coporate seats yesterday unless it was deemed too cold for them to be sitting outside.

Also that box in the corner by the Holte...it wasn't really occupied when we were in the prem.

[Harry]

1 hour ago, limpid said:

Again. Villa Park redevelopment isn't about seats (have you read the thread?). When do you think the club should make the plans? Considering how slow the planning process is and how many parties need to be involved in transport plans, this needs to be happening continuously.

Totally agree if the planned redevelopment really is all about the whole site and probably the general area where there a derelict buildings and poor infrastructure but as fans it is quite difficult to get past the swathes of empty seats. Even in the PL we were struggling to sell out against the so called top sides.

We need to have an attractive 'product' to attract the lost Villa fans and floating football fans which who will fill the ground. That in turn leads to corporate match day sales for whom we ultimately need better facilities.

[sidcow]

2 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Hardly anyone was in the Trinity coporate seats yesterday unless it was deemed too cold for them to be sitting outside.

Also that box in the corner by the Holte...it wasn't really occupied when we were in the prem.

Well it all depends on how true to his word Tony is. 

If we get back to the PL and he starts spending millions and millions bringing on top players and getting us top end champions league football, then he will need to build proper top end corporate facilities because they WILL be sold. 

If on the other side he is full of hot air and not going to invest heavily in the squad then yes he might as well leave Villa Park as it is. 

If he proceeds to develop Villa Park it will be an excellent indicator about what he will do when we get back. 

Now is the right time to develop whilst the crowds are not there and there are already empty corporate facilities that can be used whilst the. North Stand ones are out of use. 

What can't people understand about building for the Future? 

If the Government had build 2m homes over the last 20 years we would not now have a housing shortage

Do we want the North Stand out of action when we are Flying? 

If Tony builds it will mean he means business in my eyes. He ain't gonna do it for the hell of it. 

[sharkyvilla]

I think we already have planning permission for the North Stand and if we do an Anfield job building the stand over what's already there, it shouldn't really cost us much in terms of capacity or take that long.  I'm sure Tony has already got plans.

[The Fun Factory]

Well yes I have nothing against the club having some detailed plans on this. As Ellis and Lerner already did. But until we are a top 8 side again and the transport infrastructure is to be improved around the stadium this is a long term project at best. We are only averaging a bit more than Derby at present. 

[blandy]

1 hour ago, sharkyvilla said:

I think we already have planning permission for the North Stand

I suspect 2 things - firstly it's expired and secondly Dr X's plans will not be the same as Randy Lerner's - so either (both) way the club need to go back and apply again, if they want to fettle the place.

If it's going to be as part of a wider regeneration of the area, then again, they'd need to submit the proposals anew.

[VillaChris]

2 hours ago, sharkyvilla said:

I think we already have planning permission for the North Stand and if we do an Anfield job building the stand over what's already there, it shouldn't really cost us much in terms of capacity or take that long.  I'm sure Tony has already got plans.

That's actually a really good idea, we have plenty of space behind the North stand but whether it's feasible given the large car park and it has several access points such as getting to the Trinity I'm not sure.

Would be different to Liverpool though given it would be a total rebuild of the stand rather than just sticking another  tier on it.

[Wezbid]

I don't make many games as I'm not a local but god damn is parking/transport an issue. It took me an hour to get out of Birmingham last time I drove. Shame we can't just have 20,000 car spaces under the ground, although that would just end up a bottle neck too. If you've grown up on 30,000/40,000 crowds every week it's probably just the norm and no biggie smalls but I'm used to 3,500/4000 crowds usually at home and I'm away in 5/10 mins. 

I'm sure there's no simple answer but gridlock after every game shouldn't just be expected and the norm. It would drive me mental having to do that all the time. On the plus side I still have 3 years of Wittertainment podcasts to catch up with. 

[mikeyp102]

 Can't  believe that the card machines were out at VP. I had been in work all morning and hadn't eaten so was desperate for my balti pie

[The Fun Factory]

On 27/02/2017 at 02:03, Wezbid said:

I don't make many games as I'm not a local but god damn is parking/transport an issue. It took me an hour to get out of Birmingham last time I drove. Shame we can't just have 20,000 car spaces under the ground, although that would just end up a bottle neck too. If you've grown up on 30,000/40,000 crowds every week it's probably just the norm and no biggie smalls but I'm used to 3,500/4000 crowds usually at home and I'm away in 5/10 mins. 

I'm sure there's no simple answer but gridlock after every game shouldn't just be expected and the norm. It would drive me mental having to do that all the time. On the plus side I still have 3 years of Wittertainment podcasts to catch up with. 

One of the answers would be to encourage more public transport. It would be great if one day free local transport was on your ticket for the day like in Germany but that is wishful thinking. It would be good also to bring back the AV1 special buses and police escort for all supporter coaches and buses to get out quickly from the stadium, but that money dried up a long time ago.  All this has to be factored in if ever we expanded VP.

[sidcow]

My money says that if Tony is planning wider regeneration around the ground this will certainly include a tram line, probably continuing to Star City. You could get Trams back into town one way and to Star City which would be a perfect park and ride facility 

[Junxs]

I remember reading an article a couple of years ago that the Birmingham Tram had been given the go ahead for major development reaching as far out to Sutton Coldfield and Solihull. I'm sure something this big would incorporate Star City, Villa Park and other attractions into it. I'm going to see if I can find the article.

EDIT: Found an article, not sure if this was the same as I read a while back, as this seems to be talking about plans rather than any confirmed news:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-30023390 - (13/11/2014)

Quote

Three tram lines could be built in Birmingham, alongside high-speed bus routes, under a £4bn transport plan.

The city council's 20-year Birmingham Connected scheme also includes details for reopening rail lines and building two new stations.

It said it did not currently have "all the funding in place".

Bids are expected to be made for government and European money, but local businesses could also make an "increased contribution".

'No real alternative'

This could take the form of additional "ring-fenced" taxation on businesses or additional business rates, Birmingham City Council said.

 

Jerry Blackett, chief executive of Greater Birmingham Chambers of Commerce, said transport had been a "key issue" for the city and that "inner-city travelling is fraught with congestion and poor public transit coverage".

He said businesses needed "clarity" on how the plan would be funded and that "blunt instruments" such as a parking levy - a tax on firms with parking spaces - could "stifle economic growth" in the city.

The council said it would also look at the "long-term future" of the A38 through the city centre, including closing existing tunnels and sending traffic along a "substantially upgraded ring road".

Sir Albert Bore, leader of Birmingham City Council, said that could take the form of joining up the tunnels or even creating a motorway under the city.

Dr Pat Hanlon, a transport expert at the University of Birmingham, said a "supertunnel" could not only improve congestion, but open up parts of the city for building, allowing key areas such as Great Charles Street and the Colmore business district to be joined up.

Dr Hanlon said in terms of transport Birmingham had "lost an awful lot of ground to Manchester" in particular.

More than one million car journeys were made into Birmingham each day, the council said, and the current public transport system meant commuters had "no real alternative" to driving.

The council estimated by 2031 there could be an additional 80,000 cars in the city if nothing was done.

New Metro lines

• Linking Centenary Square to Edgbaston
• Linking the city centre, Snow Hill station, the new HS2 station at Curzon Street and Digbeth
• Extend this line to Birmingham Airport and the NEC via Bordesley Green and Chelmsley Wood
• Other "potential" lines include along the A34 Walsall Road, the A38 Bristol Road and the A45 to Birmingham Airport

The council also wants to reopen and upgrade rail routes to Moseley, Kings Heath and Sutton Coldfield, with new stations at Fort Parkway and Castle Vale.

A low emissions zone is planned for the city centre, with incentives for taxis and buses to switch to electric power.

Rapid transit bus routes

• Nine routes planned, with the first running on the Hagley Road by 2016
• A minimum average journey speed of 20mph
• Buses every 10 minutes
• Priority lanes and gates at traffic lights
• Cashless payment system

 

Edited March 12, 2017 by Junxs

[sidcow]

I think a wholesale redevelopment would also see big improvements to Aston and Whitton railway stations. Also with local. Rail passing to local control next year I reckon greater engagement with railways for additional match day trains would be more feasible. 

Tony plans cities, I am sure whatever proposal he puts before the council will address access and public transport. 

Old Trafford is a far far bigger stadium and has been allowed to grow that big in an inner city area. 

[Mark Albrighton]

All this talk about large scale development and transport links is interesting. 

It makes my request to sort out was those few seats in the holte that have their view impeded a bit by the Doug Ellis stand seem a bit small fry in comparison (but it would be nice if that was sorted anyway, along with all the other stuff).

[TrentVilla]

 

Redevelopment of Villa Park; Trent Villa Proposal

1. Get that abomination of a name of the Witton Lane Stand

2. Put up Ron Saunders name

3. Any other business

[alreadyexists]

Planning permissions generally only last 3 years (or 5 years for an outline permission with the submission of reserved matters)... so it's possible that any permission that was granted has lapsed now. It could still be extant if a longer time limit was specified at the time of applying but that's less common. For big schemes though, like 400+ houses sometimes 5 or 8 years are allowed for the permissions time limit for the start of works. 

Any application would have to address transport, access and sustainability issues as these are material considerations in a planning assessment... I think Birmingham City Council have an adopted CIL charging schedule which means that if development was approved the applicant (Villa/Tony) would need to pay planning obligations to support identified infrastructure that was directly relevant to the permission. This could still required without a CIL charging schedule but would be based on individually costed schemes and a Section 106 agreement.

Source: I'm a spatial planner for cash money.

Edit - Tony, if you're reading this, yes I would like a job being Villa's Planner!

Edited March 12, 2017 by alreadyexists

[blandy]

58 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Old Trafford is a far far bigger stadium and has been allowed to grow that big in an inner city area. 

OT is not quite in a residential area, in the same way as VP, really. Obviously there are some houses nearby, but it's basically plonked on the edge of a huge industrial estate, so there are fewer issues in terms of impact on local residents. All the housing is the other side of the railway line. There's also a lot more parking and as is being discussed above, better public transit and the roads away from the ground are better, too.

[The Fun Factory]

6 hours ago, alreadyexists said:

Planning permissions generally only last 3 years (or 5 years for an outline permission with the submission of reserved matters)... so it's possible that any permission that was granted has lapsed now. It could still be extant if a longer time limit was specified at the time of applying but that's less common. For big schemes though, like 400+ houses sometimes 5 or 8 years are allowed for the permissions time limit for the start of works. 

Any application would have to address transport, access and sustainability issues as these are material considerations in a planning assessment... I think Birmingham City Council have an adopted CIL charging schedule which means that if development was approved the applicant (Villa/Tony) would need to pay planning obligations to support identified infrastructure that was directly relevant to the permission. This could still required without a CIL charging schedule but would be based on individually costed schemes and a Section 106 agreement.

Source: I'm a spatial planner for cash money.

Edit - Tony, if you're reading this, yes I would like a job being Villa's Planner!

If anything did ever happen I suspect Tony will be amazed at the amount of planning proposals required, when compared to the more 'relaxed' approach in China. 

[alreadyexists]

3 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

If anything did ever happen I suspect Tony will be amazed at the amount of planning proposals required, when compared to the more 'relaxed' approach in China. 

Yeah, our planning system is quite robust as it's evolved over about 70 years (in its modern guise), although I don't know much about other planning systems (America have a zoned system mainly, NZ have a similar one to us as do Australia as far as I know) but I've heard that China put a lot of emphasis on sustainability and renewables... but less emphasis on public involvement, or people's rights (the govt flooded many villages to build the three gorges hydroelectric damn). I'm happy to be Tony's personal planning advisor in the U.K.