The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[NurembergVillan]

Quote

The employment rate (the proportion of people aged from 16 to 64 years who were in work) was 81.9% for EU nationals, higher than that for UK nationals (75.6%) and higher than that for non-EU nationals (63.0%).

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/articles/ukandnonukpeopleinthelabourmarket/may2018

I feel like we should deport all the Brits and non-EU nationals, and then we'll have a thriving country once more!

[chrisp65]

Just now, Vive_La_Villa said:

It is when you asking things like how many Romanians went to the dole office last week. 

But you do need to know this shit if you want to know what the real cause of our problems is.

When you get a hospital that's only kept running by employing 50% of its staff from other countries, you can't then complain that their kids and husbands are over here filling up the school places and parks.

People see some people sat around in Swindon town center and just presume they are Romanian dross. They might be. But they won't be the reason there are less jobs in industry for the working classes. By definition, it's not the people in the park that took the jobs. It's the people that decided we would take subsidised Chinese steel.

[Xann]

Just now, Vive_La_Villa said:

It’s estimated 11,500 unemployed out of 400,000 + Romanians. So I take that back as I guess it’s a small percentage. 

People are always dissing Romania.

Do you remember McDonalds own cola?

Filthy stuff, revolting, unpopular. Fortunately it moved on to a newer markets abroad.

It wasn't here to please customers, it was there to keep Coca Cola in check.

If Coke threatened to aggressively raise prices? McDonalds could threaten to revert to their own cola.

Europe needs Romania for similar reasons - Dude, they're about the only country that can make TVs in any quantity this side of the Silk Route.

I don't get how West Midlanders don't get this? Birmingham has changed so much since my Old Boy worked in the Jewellery Quarter.

When I go back to Brum I can't believe it, the industry is gone. There was so much of it.

Some will have gone out of town. Most manufacture abroad.

We are not a balanced economy, we can be held to ransom in many ways.

If we're sticking with the failed Capitalism project?  We need Europe, Europe needs Romania.

 

Otherwise... This is conjecture on my part... We leave Europe with a right wing government? They'll cut services at home. They'll care less about selling what to whom? (Israel use a lot of ammo, there's a market) They will turn to banks to make the books look good.

Then we're Greece but worse, much much worse, or Fascism Central?

We leave with dominant Corbyn? Ha! Still a mess, the money might try and jump ship to Europe? It would ruffle feathers in lofty perches though.

Obviously the best option is leave the EU, raze the Square Mile and try to make the place a bit less crappy for the next generation(s).

Not confident on the last coming to pass tbh

So yeah - Europe, not great, but the odds us leaving and yours and mine's quality of life getting better are pretty long.

 

I could be totally wrong of course?

[Chindie]

Making trade with your biggest and closest market more difficult is a surefire way to make yourself a more successful economy.

[snowychap]

2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

It is when you asking things like how many Romanians went to the dole office last week. 

That wasn't what I was asking.

I asked whether it was known how long they were unemployed for, whether the 11.5k estimated unemployed were claimants and if so for how long did their claims last?

If you don't know the information (you hold the key to it as it's about the information you supplied to us) then you could say that you don't know.

We might then say that it's quite possible that we don't know enough about this relatively small proportion of unemployed (it's about 2.88% right?) amongst the Romanians that are in the UK to be able to make the kind of clear and unequivocal judgements that you have made.

That information might be out there. I'm not looking for it because I'm not that bothered about that relatively small number of Romanians. You seem very bothered by them and as such I think it's incumbent on you to gather the right kind of data to make your judgement look informed rather than not.

[LondonLax]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Those already living in the UK are not going to lose their right to work and you know that. 

I don’t think we know anything right now. A ‘no deal’ Brexit and all bets are off. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

 

I liked the bit where you quoted stats from the Office of National Statistics, then derided others for using them and then said you don't need them.

Chrisp nails it again imo. If you wanted a worse torture than re-reading the Bruce and Gabby threads put together you could trawl this thread and see there's plenty of us in here who have this view. Not that I'd advise it though Vive tbf.

 

I had to quote those stats because @snowychap was bombarding me with posts to show evidence to back up what I was saying.   

If anything I actually used the stats to agree that I was wrong about the number of Romanians unemployed being wrong as 11.5K is a very small number of the 400k+ that are here. 

To be honest those reasons mentioned above are some of the main reasons I voted to leave the EU. The immigration topic came up a lot in the last few pages as I had posted about skilled non EU workers.  People who who should have as much right to work in this country than somebody in the EU if the labour was needed.

[Vive_La_Villa]

4 minutes ago, snowychap said:

That wasn't what I was asking.

I asked whether it was known how long they were unemployed for, whether the 11.5k estimated unemployed were claimants and if so for how long did their claims last?

If you don't know the information (you hold the key to it as it's about the information you supplied to us) then you could say that you don't know.

We might then say that it's quite possible that we don't know enough about this relatively small proportion of unemployed (it's about 2.88% right?) amongst the Romanians that are in the UK to be able to make the kind of clear and unequivocal judgements that you have made.

That information might be out there. I'm not looking for it because I'm not that bothered about that relatively small number of Romanians. You seem very bothered by them and as such I think it's incumbent on you to gather the right kind of data to make your judgement look informed rather than not.

Mate you are far to intelligent for my simple mind. I can’t compete with this.  I prefer to just take back all that was said about Romanians and just accept you are right about whatever it is we are still debating. 

The rate of immigration was not too fast. It had no effect on public services.  

Its all made up lies to make us vote leave and we fell for it. 

Plus Romanians smoking in a kids area is a bit of crap argument to make about all Romanians. I admit that and also take it back. 

Time to call it a night pal. Need another night nurse top up.

[bickster]

Vice la Difference! Or maybe not

[Vive_La_Villa]

19 minutes ago, Xann said:

People are always dissing Romania.

Do you remember McDonalds own cola?

Filthy stuff, revolting, unpopular. Fortunately it moved on to a newer markets abroad.

It wasn't here to please customers, it was there to keep Coca Cola in check.

If Coke threatened to aggressively raise prices? McDonalds could threaten to revert to their own cola.

Europe needs Romania for similar reasons - Dude, they're about the only country that can make TVs in any quantity this side of the Silk Route.

I don't get how West Midlanders don't get this? Birmingham has changed so much since my Old Boy worked in the Jewellery Quarter.

When I go back to Brum I can't believe it, the industry is gone. There was so much of it.

Some will have gone out of town. Most manufacture abroad.

We are not a balanced economy, we can be held to ransom in many ways.

If we're sticking with the failed Capitalism project?  We need Europe, Europe needs Romania.

 

Otherwise... This is conjecture on my part... We leave Europe with a right wing government? They'll cut services at home. They'll care less about selling what to whom? (Israel use a lot of ammo, there's a market) They will turn to banks to make the books look good.

Then we're Greece but worse, much much worse, or Fascism Central?

We leave with dominant Corbyn? Ha! Still a mess, the money might try and jump ship to Europe? It would ruffle feathers in lofty perches though.

Obviously the best option is leave the EU, raze the Square Mile and try to make the place a bit less crappy for the next generation(s).

Not confident on the last coming to pass tbh

So yeah - Europe, not great, but the odds us leaving and yours and mine's quality of life getting better are pretty long.

 

I could be totally wrong of course?

Romani seem to get a lot of bad press. I don’t know how much of it is true. Probably not so much. 

[Xann]

8 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Romani seem to get a lot of bad press. I don’t know how much of it is true. Probably not so much. 

The Romanians being here means if anyone from anywhere nicks your telly? You can get a replacement UHD one for near £300 rather than £400+.

Hopefully you won't need to buy too many TVs, but you'll buy food most days and the same rules apply.

This is going to bite the poorest hardest. 

Rees-Mogg loves a foodbank, opening a poor house will give him a boner.

[jackbauer24]

I went out on Saturday night with a group of people. We were in a pub drinking and having a laugh, prices were OK and most of us were happy. One loud mouth starts shouting off that he didn't like this pub and we should leave and slowly about half the group agreed with him. One person said we should go to the White Horse (because it was cheaper), another said we should go to the Red Lion (because it had better atmosphere), another said we should stay in the pub but go to the beer garden. So because just over half the group decided they wanted to leave we all left the pub and stood in the middle of the road. By this point the big mouthed idiot had left. The others couldn't agree which pub to move on to. So we all sat outside and had nothing to do, no more drink and the night was ruined. At least it was only one night.

Don't know why, it just struck a chord...

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Mate you are far to intelligent for my simple mind. I can’t compete with this.  I prefer to just take back all that was said about Romanians and just accept you are right about whatever it is we are still debating. 

The rate of immigration was not too fast. It had no effect on public services.  

Its all made up lies to make us vote leave and we fell for it. 

There was another bloke in the Jack Grealish thread pulling exactly this move last week, and I thought it was mortifying then as well. 

[Seat68]

7 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

All far points. I’ll admit some of my views today were a bit ill thought out and emotional. 

I only came on here to say it’s good that skilled non EU workers are getting more visas which are now 5 year visa’s instead of one year. Then everything went nuts. 

Because every couple of weeks you come here spouting bollocks. Last time you put it down to alcohol when you were clearly and massively wrong. What was it this time? Ambien?

[Vive_La_Villa]

34 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

Because every couple of weeks you come here spouting bollocks. Last time you put it down to alcohol when you were clearly and massively wrong. What was it this time? Ambien?

That’s the problem with these threads. Unless you agree with it it’s all bollocks and wrong.  

Ill stay on topic. 

[StefanAVFC]

39 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

That’s the problem with these threads. Unless you agree with it it’s all bollocks and wrong.  

Ill stay on topic. 

I dunno.

I mean, it's within your rights to crow about being the victim and about how everyone is against you. 

You could have some fair arguments. Stuff like school places and doctor's appointments is my anecdotal evidence vs yours.

But, when you accuse somebody who lives in Poland, of living in a liberal bubble with no interaction with people from poorer EU countries, then people are going to pile onto you, I'm sorry.

Also, your arguments were flawed. You first stated I would face no impact from Brexit. Then when I explained the clear impact it'll have on my life, you called me selfish. Then you stated that Brexit will be good for your business.

Have a bit of consistency, stop with the ad hominem and then people won't be so standoffish. Just my 2c.

Edited July 31, 2018 by StefanAVFC

[Stevo985]

40 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

That’s the problem with these threads. Unless you agree with it it’s all bollocks and wrong.  

Ill stay on topic. 

Not really. If you make a good point you get good debate.

You came in and made a claim, and when it was disproved with statistics (that you provided) you then claimed you didn't need stats.

Then you accused someone living in Poland of not being able to have an opinion and told the rest of us we were all white and privileged and weren't affected by Brexit and living in a liberal bubble.

So actually it was you doing a lot of the ridiculing. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

11 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I dunno.

I mean, it's within your rights to crow about being the victim and about how everyone is against you. 

You could have some fair arguments. Stuff like school places and doctor's appointments is my anecdotal evidence vs yours.

But, when you accuse somebody who lives in Poland, of living in a liberal bubble with no interaction with people from poorer EU countries, then people are going to pile onto you, I'm sorry.

Also, your arguments were flawed. You first stated I would face no impact from Brexit. Then when I explained the clear impact it'll have on my life, you called me selfish. Then you stated that Brexit will be good for your business.

Have a bit of consistency, stop with the ad hominem and then people won't be so standoffish. Just my 2c.

It felt like I was getting pounced on from all angles so I got on the defensive. Yes the liberal bubble and selfish comments were unnecessary. Apologises for that.  The Poland comments were just silly.

I mentioned an example of how being able to bring in more skilled non eu workers will benefit businesses as I was asked a question around where I have seen evidence of this. I wasn’t saying it was the only reasons I was for leaving the Eu. 

Anyway I was trying to discuss what I perceive is a benefit of Brexit. After that it got outta hand and I admit I said some silly things. 

But I still think 1.5 people movement in around 16 years (I haven’t got the exact numbers ) is still a big strain on public services and ideally there should have been more control. Whether that’s in or out of the EU.  Immigration is healthy and I’ve always been for it. I wouldn’t even live in this country if wasn’t for immigration. But surely a country should have some control over who lives here?

I also believe that due to this mass movement a lot of skilled workers that were not from the EU were unable to come to the Uk. Again this could well be down to poor UK immigration policies rather than the EU itself.  But they do seem to be changing that and have proposed more changes following Brexit.

Now whether anybody agrees with the above or not I’m about to start pulling out details stats for every point I make. 

If I’m wrong then so be it.

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

26 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Not really. If you make a good point you get good debate.

You came in and made a claim, and when it was disproved with statistics (that you provided) you then claimed you didn't need stats.

Then you accused someone living in Poland of not being able to have an opinion and told the rest of us we were all white and privileged and weren't affected by Brexit and living in a liberal bubble.

So actually it was you doing a lot of the ridiculing. 

11,500 Romanians unemployed is still quite a large number don’t you think?  Yes it’s not a reflection on Romanians as it’s around 2-3% of those that have arrived here that are not in work.  So a small percentage in that respect.

But it still suggest there’s an issue somewhere doesn’t it? Whether that’s deportation issues or lack of Jobs in this country.  It’s something that maybe could have been avoided if there was more control. 

[ml1dch]

6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I also believe that due to this mass movement a lot of skilled workers that were not from the EU were unable to come to the Uk. Again this could well be down to poor UK immigration policies rather than the EU itself.  But they do seem to be changing that and have proposed more changes following Brexit.

Cool, the conversation has now caught up to summer 2016.

Now, how is this thing you decided you wanted going to actually work?