Keinan Davis

[nick76]

1 minute ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I might genuinely do a highlights compilation to show how heavily involved in chance creation he actually was for us. The numbers are there in both prior seasons.

Great, looking forward to it, might still have enough content to create a good gif

[Tom13]

6 minutes ago, John said:

I didn't see that photo. I will have to find a Nose to tell me about it, I'm sure they will all remember that moment when one of our boys scored against them.  

 

[The Fun Factory]

Just goes to show that we held him back in not sending him out on loan a couple of years ago.

[sidcow]

32 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Great, looking forward to it, might still have enough content to create a good gif

Nick. Why do you bother coming on her? Your entire time is spent posting negative things about Keinan. Calling out anyone who says anything positive about him and liking negative comments anybody else posts.

I just don't get spending time and energy on that. Seriously why do you brother?

I think everyone gets your point of view now, why continue with the barrage?

[nick76]

1 minute ago, sidcow said:

Nick. Why do you bother coming on her? Your entire time is spent posting negative things about Keinan. Calling out anyone who says anything positive about him and liking negative comments anybody else posts.

I just don't get spending time and energy on that. Seriously why do you brother?

I think everyone gets your point of view now, why continue with the barrage?

I comment on most threads in on topic, regular on some threads in off topic as well.  

Whatever is hot topic at the time I generally post in.  

I didn’t realise you could only comment more than a few times in a thread if you are positive, I didn’t see that in the rules.  If you have a negative view, then you   should limit posting, I get it.

You call it negative, I think wanting him to do well at Forest and them giving us a good fee in the summer to reinvest back in Villa is far more positive than another season at the Villa doing nothing earning money, potentially blocking youth players coming through.

 I think my positivity is towards the betterment of Villa which is to sell a player that’s sitting on our books earning money for years not playing for us but worth a good fee, than caring about about the player who some fans irrationally keep dreaming will come good one day at top level and after a dozen games at a lower level club keeps those fantasy dreams alive for a bit longer.  

So my positivity is solely on what’s best for Villa and that’s by getting a saleable asset off the books rather paying reasonable wages for somebody that is going to offer nothing to the main team at the level we are at.

Then it just amuses me that people try to compare him to Tammy, I wet my pants laughing on that one.

Why do I keep posting! Why not, in between looking and posting on other threads, it’s the whole point of a discussion/message board at the end of the day!

[Sulberto21]

He has become a ‘legend’ after that celebration .

“Mate! How dare he celebrate like that. The Vile **** ………….. Mate!”

[Steero113]

45 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Why do you bother coming on her?

I ask this question most weeks to myself if we're being honest. 

Suppose she's still worth it. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Steero113

[TRO]

4 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I don't even think he was that bad when he did play for us in the PL. Its just his contribution can't be seen in something as simple as just goals scored.

 

 

I know what you mean, but when you are occupying a place in the team, that says striker......you have to score goals imo.

I know Pep and Jurgen, may disagree......but when we get to a level of having a squad like theirs, I might alter, my opinion......but for now and where we are, strikers have to score goals.

Having said all of that.....Arsene Wenger once said "Teams score goals, strikers just finissh the moves off".....another way of interpreting it.

[villa4europe]

4 hours ago, The Fun Factory said:

Just goes to show that we held him back in not sending him out on loan a couple of years ago.

whilst I agree he had some injury trouble didn't he? he also didn't come from an academy so I wonder if he's considered a few years behind the curve and will be a late bloomer

villa obviously see something there because they've had him on the books for near 7 years already and they've extended his contract, despite the lack of goals we've never really been heavily linked with selling him or releasing him

[TRO]

4 hours ago, nick76 said:

Yet barely got played when he was fit!  Just looks like half the fans think he has potential and half the fans think his time is done at Villa and he’s found his level at Forest and wish him well.  Neither can see the others point of view.

I think the thing is Nick, we all have opinions.....but events in football can change them.

David Platt is an example how we bought a journeyman from Crewe for c£ 250,000......and he gradually turned himself in to a free scoring midfielder.

Keinan has been an enigma in the past.....but who knows, how he can turn himself around.

I do accept your point to score goals regularly in this league we are in, with the talented defenders around......you have to be pretty special.

Edited April 11, 2022 by TRO

[Dale]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

journeyman

Platty wasn't a journeyman. We signed a youngster from Crewe! 

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, Dale said:

Platty wasn't a journeyman. We signed a youngster from Crewe! 

perhaps, I could have used a better word.....he was 22 and wasn't the player he turned out to be, he was fantastic, was my point.....but I guess, you knew that.

I would call a youngster c18....but hey ho, I get your point.

Edited April 11, 2022 by TRO

[Dale]

Just now, TRO said:

perhaps, I could have used a better word.....he was 22 and wasn't the player he turned out to be, was my point.....but I guess, you knew that.

I would call a youngster c18....but hey ho, I get your point.

To me a journeyman is someone that bounces around clubs every year or so, someone bouncing about the relegation battles each year. Maybe he was more a water carrier in football cliche terms

Back on Keinan, he's landed well at Forest with an extremely good coach! Cooper is possibly the best English manager right now outside of the Premier League. If we were more astute we'd have snapped him up when Dean left! 

[mykeyb]

I am pleased for him.

Grealish always said he was a quality player and it looks like he has now been given that opportunity at Forrest.

I wouldnt sell him because if he can score goals in the Championship we might need him next season.....................

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, Dale said:

To me a journeyman is someone that bounces around clubs every year or so, someone bouncing about the relegation battles each year. Maybe he was more a water carrier in football cliche terms

Back on Keinan, he's landed well at Forest with an extremely good coach! Cooper is possibly the best English manager right now outside of the Premier League. If we were more astute we'd have snapped him up when Dean left! 

Whatever you think about, SG he is still in his infancy and a manager.

We don't know, if Cooper is responsible for Keinans form, it could be intrinsic.....any good coach needs good players to become one.

We are trying to raise our profile.....are we more likely to attract the up grades with SG or SC?

[bobzy]

6 hours ago, nick76 said:

I’m guessing you’ll never be a scout either because one is having a great career and the other is on loan at a lower level.  They are like chalk and cheese, Tammy is quality and Davis is a low scoring Championship striker.  You can dress it all you want “a true team player”, if only he has this and that, he’d be one hell of a player but the fact is he doesn’t, he never has, never looked like having either.  His instincts are poor, his goal scoring is very poor and the fact that he’s got a big frame, holds the ball up well at Championship level doesn’t get him to PL level.  He’s found his level and I’m delighted for him, now we just need to get a fee at the end of the season.

It's a valid view if you're assessing strikers purely on goals.  A lot seem to do the same for Ronaldo at Man Utd - he undoubtedly scores goals but his all round play is poor and it's part of the reason Man Utd look far less effective this season.  Davis is absolute the opposite of this at Forest - he doesn't score that many goals (although 5 in 13 isn't a bad return) but he has absolutely transformed the way they play.  That doesn't come from me watching much of Forest, but I live in Nottingham surrounded by Forest fans and they very much seem to be of the opinion that Keinan Davis has been the main reason they're pushing for promotion.

Playing with a striker who is good at scoring goals at Championship level (Lewis Grabban) saw Lewis Grabban score plenty of goals (12) but the rest of the team not chip in with as many because they weren't brought in to play as much.  Grabban was the striker they looked for - often attacking down the right with Brennan Johnson and Djed Spence overlapping from right wing-back then getting the ball into the box.

They still do this, but aren't as reliant because Davis drops deeper; he brings the entire team up the pitch.  You can see the impact in Johnson's form.  5 goals in 25 games before Davis joined, 9 goals in 14 since.  The two goals Forest scored against Coventry recently is a very good example of what Davis brings to them and how effective he can be.  First goal, he drops to receive the ball, turns and moves forward, plays the ball wide left which is then crossed for Johnson to (eventually) score.  Second goal, Davis again drops deep to get the ball, skins a couple of players before laying the ball into Garner to score.  0 goals for the striker, but they're simply not getting those goals without him being on the pitch.

Someone mentioned previously that him being on the pitch seems to have a dual impact - the team scores more but, more importantly, concedes less.  Whoever it was pointed out this was the case during his brief appearances at Villa, too.  If you look at Steve Cooper's reign at Forest, the first 17 games (before Davis joined) saw them 4th in league form, scoring 25 and conceding 16 in 17 games.  Since Davis came in, they've gone to the top of the form table scoring 29 and conceding just 8 in 14 games.  It should be noted here that a big part of this has been Steve Cook coming into defence too - that said, Cook has been missing the last 4 league games and they've only shipped 2 goals (scoring 11).

So, yeah, maybe he won't come good at Villa or in the Premier League at all, but to call him just a "low scoring Championship striker" is doing him a massive disservice - particularly saying his instincts are poor which is just untrue.  He finds space very well, utilises the ball very well and has helped completely transform an entire side.  Not many players do that at any level in such a short space of time.

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, Dale said:

To me a journeyman is someone that bounces around clubs every year or so, someone bouncing about the relegation battles each year. Maybe he was more a water carrier in football cliche terms

Back on Keinan, he's landed well at Forest with an extremely good coach! Cooper is possibly the best English manager right now outside of the Premier League. If we were more astute we'd have snapped him up when Dean left! 

My understanding of a "Water Carrier" in football is a colloquial term for a defensive midfielder......it was quoted by Cantona, about Didier Deschamps.

Platty was not that....but lets get back on topic.

Keinan is doing great.....lets see how far it takes him.

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, bobzy said:

It's a valid view if you're assessing strikers purely on goals.  A lot seem to do the same for Ronaldo at Man Utd - he undoubtedly scores goals but his all round play is poor and it's part of the reason Man Utd look far less effective this season.  Davis is absolute the opposite of this at Forest - he doesn't score that many goals (although 5 in 13 isn't a bad return) but he has absolutely transformed the way they play.  That doesn't come from me watching much of Forest, but I live in Nottingham surrounded by Forest fans and they very much seem to be of the opinion that Keinan Davis has been the main reason they're pushing for promotion.

Playing with a striker who is good at scoring goals at Championship level (Lewis Grabban) saw Lewis Grabban score plenty of goals (12) but the rest of the team not chip in with as many because they weren't brought in to play as much.  Grabban was the striker they looked for - often attacking down the right with Brennan Johnson and Djed Spence overlapping from right wing-back then getting the ball into the box.

They still do this, but aren't as reliant because Davis drops deeper; he brings the entire team up the pitch.  You can see the impact in Johnson's form.  5 goals in 25 games before Davis joined, 9 goals in 14 since.  The two goals Forest scored against Coventry recently is a very good example of what Davis brings to them and how effective he can be.  First goal, he drops to receive the ball, turns and moves forward, plays the ball wide left which is then crossed for Johnson to (eventually) score.  Second goal, Davis again drops deep to get the ball, skins a couple of players before laying the ball into Garner to score.  0 goals for the striker, but they're simply not getting those goals without him being on the pitch.

Someone mentioned previously that him being on the pitch seems to have a dual impact - the team scores more but, more importantly, concedes less.  Whoever it was pointed out this was the case during his brief appearances at Villa, too.  If you look at Steve Cooper's reign at Forest, the first 17 games (before Davis joined) saw them 4th in league form, scoring 25 and conceding 16 in 17 games.  Since Davis came in, they've gone to the top of the form table scoring 29 and conceding just 8 in 14 games.  It should be noted here that a big part of this has been Steve Cook coming into defence too - that said, Cook has been missing the last 4 league games and they've only shipped 2 goals (scoring 11).

So, yeah, maybe he won't come good at Villa or in the Premier League at all, but to call him just a "low scoring Championship striker" is doing him a massive disservice - particularly saying his instincts are poor which is just untrue.  He finds space very well, utilises the ball very well and has helped completely transform an entire side.  Not many players do that at any level in such a short space of time.

I think you make some very worthwhile points....certainly gives us something to think about.

[skarroki]

Another thing about the championship is he get use his strength much better. He gives away fouls in the prem, he gets the ball in the championship. 

[CVByrne]

I do wonder how he would work in a front two with Watkins in a counter attacking system with Coutinho behind them. Probably need JJ and McGinn to be busting forward to score though