Gun violence in the USA

[villa4europe]

5 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

You've got to look at this objectively and pragmatically. To amend the US Constitution is not happening in the US. The country has a massive gin industry and culture. It is essentially impossible to remove guns from the country awash with them. 

So if you think about it. Given the current situation and the prospective situation in the near future. Owning a gun for protection seems the rational decision. 

Longer term ideas should be how to make steps like guns that only work for the registered owner. Making it harder for people to buy assault rifles. Etc.. steps like that. 

I think it's two fold, you approach it top down and rationalise gun ownership through legislation and registration and restricting the guns available

Whilst at the same time you try and change America culturally and stop the bullshit over enemies attacking their freedom and trying to get them, reduce the fear that they live in 

Neither will happen 

[mjmooney]

This is the sort of mindset you're dealing with: 

[HKP90]

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

This is the sort of mindset you're dealing with: 

Use guns to build houses. Obvious really. An overlooked building material.

This is the things with guns. People compare gun crime to knife crime, but a gun serves one purpose and one purpose only. While it is a daft idea to ban knives, banning guns would have absolutely no effect on society whatsoever, aside from not having a big chunk of said society in the morgue.

[PussEKatt]

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

This is the sort of mindset you're dealing with: 

No,that school teacher was in the wrong.She should have had a bigger gun than the 6yo.

[StefanAVFC]

The issue isn't with amending the US Constitution. The issue is they have a 300 year old document written in wishy washy language, relevant to those times, not to now. And you have a Supreme Court who depending on who interprets it, sets these things into law. If you look at 2A, in good faith, it's impossible (for me anyway) to see how banning assault rifles is against it. If so, then why stop there? Why can't people have bazookas?

But some judge, probably lobbied, says it does, so that's that.

Quote

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

If you look at the Wiki article, there is SO much debate about the wording. Most pro-gun advocates focus purely on the 2nd half of it, and ignore about militias, and even 'well-regulated'.

Edited April 6, 2023 by StefanAVFC

[mjmooney]

[LondonLax]

12 hours ago, mjmooney said:

It doesn’t really work as an analogy though does it?

Obviously kids aren’t allowed guns or hammers in class either way but sticking with the analogy for a second, if a kid (i.e. an adult) is using their hammer (i.e. a gun) inappropriately the police do have the power to act against that individual, the one hitting other kids, including taking away their ‘hammer’ or removing them from the ‘classroom’.

They don’t have the power to act against other ‘students’ who are not hitting anyone.

Hence the central premise might be funny to read but doesn’t actually make a relevant argument for the gun debate.

[villa4europe]

If a kid rocked up to class with a hammer you'd say what the **** are you doing and take it off him before he gets the chance to do anything

If billy Bob turned up at the office with a pistol on his waistband you'd call it a Tuesday and think nothing of it

But then obviously on any given day someone might come for his freedom and he might need that pistol

[VILLAMARV]

I'm just amazed the weavers didn't factor in the inevitable noise complaints for all their post sundown hammering.

[sidcow]

23 hours ago, CVByrne said:

You've got to look at this objectively and pragmatically. To amend the US Constitution is not happening in the US. The country has a massive gin industry and culture. 

Are you suggesting they're all drunk? 

[CVByrne]

5 hours ago, sidcow said:

Are you suggesting they're all drunk? 

They did repeal that amendment actually 

[maqroll]

No-one is safe here anymore.

If I didn't live in the USA, I'd never visit here unless it was absolutely necessary. 

 

[nick76]

23 hours ago, LondonLax said:

They don’t have the power to act against other ‘students’ who are not hitting anyone.

That’s not actually true, there are many states that have by law, that any student who possesses a firearm, deadly weapon, dangerous instrument, or martial arts weapon on school grounds or at a school-sponsored activity can face discipline.  Given the ambiguity of the writing and an argument that why would a student generally be carrying around only a hammer in their school bag which doesn’t relate to any school activity then under the law and/or school board guidelines they do have the power and could deem the hammer as a dangerous instrument because of the context of not needing it otherwise in a school environment.  Using isn’t the prerequisite, it’s possession.  Obviously you don’t usually do anything but they do have the power if so needed.

Edited April 8, 2023 by nick76

[il_serpente]

4 hours ago, maqroll said:

No-one is safe here anymore.

If I didn't live in the USA, I'd never visit here unless it was absolutely necessary. 

 

 

My son chose to go to college in Canada in part because he wanted to be able easily leave the States if shit like this and the MAGA fascism continue to pull the place down.  Starting to wonder if we should join him once my daughter is done with high school.  Vancouver is nice.

[PussEKatt]

The US of A must be the only place where you risk your life by just going to school ?!

[maqroll]

9 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

The US of A must be the only place where you risk your life by just going to school ?!

And Afghanistan. We're in good company. We even have our own "Taliban".

[Enda]

On 06/04/2023 at 10:02, StefanAVFC said:

If you look at 2A, in good faith, it's impossible (for me anyway) to see how banning assault rifles is against it. If so, then why stop there? Why can't people have bazookas?

If I were American I’d want the constitution changed. But I think the current reading of the 2A is correct: regular citizens are entitled to purchase guns at least similar to those routinely issued to soldiers. So the right to buy an AR-15 shall not be infringed.

I think the reading of the 2A says regular citizens should probably be allowed bazookas too. So it’s madness and should changed, IMHO.

[StefanAVFC]

2 hours ago, maqroll said:

And Afghanistan. We're in good company. We even have our own "Taliban".

Y’all Queda

[maqroll]

I'm trying to reconcile my own conflicting opinions on guns. 

For years I was for very strict gun control including total bans on AR15 type weapons, high capacity magazines, etc. 

But now that the the right wing here is literally killing their perceived enemies with these weapons and threaten mass violence against the left, I think I'd be wise to arm myself too.

Ideally, we'd have gun laws like Japan, but that'll never happen.

[Danwichmann]

12 hours ago, PussEKatt said:

The US of A must be the only place where you risk your life by just going to school ?!

Malala says hi, plus kids all over the place that make dangerous journeys across rivers or landslides to reach school. 

But probably the only place where you're likely to the victim of a random shooting at school.