The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[Davkaus]

Shall we ban nice cars because some people have to get the bus?

The solution to housing problems is investment in social housing, not a frankly bizare and authoritarian landgrab and criminalisation of someone having a seaside weekend home. It's an outrageous suggestion.

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, sexbelowsound said:

Somebody needing a second home somewhere nice whilst other people can't afford their first home is bonkers.

It’s important that the rich are allowed to buy up all the houses to maintain their power and wealth.

If you’re not in a position to find somewhere to live, perhaps you should have tried harder in school.

Houses are not sports cars, they are not horses, they are not nice watches.

It is immoral to keep someone homeless because you want two or three options for the weekend.

[bobzy]

3 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Shall we ban nice cars because some people have to get the bus?

The solution to housing problems is investment in social housing, not a frankly bizare and authoritarian landgrab and criminalisation of someone having a seaside weekend home. It's an outrageous suggestion.

The car analogy is awful - not even remotely close to the same thing.

I honestly think you should read into the housing situation in Cornwall. It’s alarming. 

[OutByEaster?]

I think with houses there should be a tax on any property that's empty - so if no one lives in it, you pay double council tax or similar. 

There are thousands of empty apartments in London whose existence is entirely for investment - no one lives there but money.

[HanoiVillan]

Nobody enjoys it when I say an issue doesn't have a good and simple answer . . . so I don't expect a positive reception to my contribution to the second home debate, because there is no good and simple answer, which is why we haven't got a solution to it.

Cornwall's other industries have mostly died a death, because it is a small place with bad transport links and is not a logical place to locate most businesses. However, it is really beautiful, so the one industry that survives is tourism. One problem with tourism is that it is seasonal, which has two consequences: firstly, it means the annualised pay is bad for most people working in it, and secondly, towns that are tourist hotspots turn into desolate, creepy places in the off-season. Because the pay is bad, many people working in tourism can't afford to buy a property. But removing tourism as an industry isn't the answer; that just leads to even lower wages and worse finances for the county. So people have lots of ideas about banning second home ownership, or taxing it to the point it would be stupid to own one, but all that will happen in those cases is those properties will turn into B'n'Bs or AirBNBs, because the demand still exists, you haven't changed it. Then other people have ideas about subsidising locals to live in the area, but there are limits to how politically sustainable it is to ask taxpayers to pay for people to live in places they couldn't afford themselves.

There just aren't an easy solutions.

[bobzy]

7 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Nobody enjoys it when I say an issue doesn't have a good and simple answer . . . so I don't expect a positive reception to my contribution to the second home debate, because there is no good and simple answer, which is why we haven't got a solution to it.

Cornwall's other industries have mostly died a death, because it is a small place with bad transport links and is not a logical place to locate most businesses. However, it is really beautiful, so the one industry that survives is tourism. One problem with tourism is that it is seasonal, which has two consequences: firstly, it means the annualised pay is bad for most people working in it, and secondly, towns that are tourist hotspots turn into desolate, creepy places in the off-season. Because the pay is bad, many people working in tourism can't afford to buy a property. But removing tourism as an industry isn't the answer; that just leads to even lower wages and worse finances for the county. So people have lots of ideas about banning second home ownership, or taxing it to the point it would be stupid to own one, but all that will happen in those cases is those properties will turn into B'n'Bs or AirBNBs, because the demand still exists, you haven't changed it. Then other people have ideas about subsidising locals to live in the area, but there are limits to how politically sustainable it is to ask taxpayers to pay for people to live in places they couldn't afford themselves.

There just aren't an easy solutions.

Nope, there aren't any easy solutions - mostly as we've got to this stage, which makes it tough.

Cornwall is a real **** up.  I'm pretty sure I read it's the second poorest region in Northern Europe - a tourist hotspot in the UK!  Coupled with this, house prices have absolutely rocketed as people have bought second homes/rental properties in the area.  The last year has highlighted the issue more so as the stamp duty holiday has given people a bigger incentive to buy in the region.  In March 2020, the average house price in Cornwall was £236k.  This year, that figure is at £273k - a jump of £37k in a year!  Landlords have been turfing out "regular" tenants to make way for over-the-odds paying holiday lets.  There was some statistic saying something like 16,000 homes in Cornwall are empty at any one time and there are about 19,000 people waiting on a list for council housing.  So you've got very low income, high house prices, unaffordable rent and a drive to get properties out to holiday makers as they pay more.

I'm sure the re-introduction of stamp duty will help prices drop a bit and then plateau, but the region is in absolute crisis.

[HanoiVillan]

44 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Nope, there aren't any easy solutions - mostly as we've got to this stage, which makes it tough.

Cornwall is a real **** up.  I'm pretty sure I read it's the second poorest region in Northern Europe - a tourist hotspot in the UK!  Coupled with this, house prices have absolutely rocketed as people have bought second homes/rental properties in the area.  The last year has highlighted the issue more so as the stamp duty holiday has given people a bigger incentive to buy in the region.  In March 2020, the average house price in Cornwall was £236k.  This year, that figure is at £273k - a jump of £37k in a year!  Landlords have been turfing out "regular" tenants to make way for over-the-odds paying holiday lets.  There was some statistic saying something like 16,000 homes in Cornwall are empty at any one time and there are about 19,000 people waiting on a list for council housing.  So you've got very low income, high house prices, unaffordable rent and a drive to get properties out to holiday makers as they pay more.

I'm sure the re-introduction of stamp duty will help prices drop a bit and then plateau, but the region is in absolute crisis.

The situation is not great, for sure, but within that post there are three reasons to think the crisis will at least become less acute, which are: 1) as you note, the stamp duty holiday is ending; 2) we are hopefully coming towards the end of covid, so the relative value of a second home in a beautiful but difficult to reach location with not many off-season amenities will probably decline; and 3) as we come to the end of covid, international travel should return in greater volume so some pressure should be removed.

But yeah, it's not a great situation.

[Seat68]

 

[Stevo985]

It's remarkable that the amount apparently being raised by the increase in National Insurance over the next 3 years is almost exactly the amount that Track and Trace cost... which was a complete failure and cost an insane amount more than any other country's track and trace.

Weird that.

 

As many of us said at the time, the people who will end up paying for all the money wasted during the pandemic will be us.

And still people vote for these words removed

[Davkaus]

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

It's remarkable that the amount apparently being raised by the increase in National Insurance over the next 3 years is almost exactly the amount that Track and Trace cost... which was a complete failure and cost an insane amount more than any other country's track and trace.

 

Nope. This is a fairly common mistake and the subject of many inaccurate images that float aorund social media so I can understand the confusion, but you're thinking of the total cost of test and trace. The test part was executed fairly well, from my understanding, and was the vast majority of the cost was testing (about 80%, I believe). In addition to that, the total cost that's used as the headline figure (£37bn) is the total budget allocated to it up until next year.

Not sure how that stacks up internationally, to be fair, just be sure you're comparing the same thing.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Davkaus

[Stevo985]

Just now, Davkaus said:

Nope. Common mistake this, but you're thinking of the total cost of test and trace. The test part was executed fairly well, from my understanding, and was the vast majority of the cost was testing (about 80%, I believe). In addition to that, the total cost that's used as the headline figure (£37bn) is the total budget allocated to it up until next year.

Not sure how that stacks up internationally, to be fair, just be sure you're comparing the same thing.

Yeah I meant that.

Even if the test bit was reasonably successful, the costs are absolutely astronomical. Germany's cost about a billion. Ireland's cost about 700million.

And theirs worked.

[HanoiVillan]

@chrisp65 Did you see the initial new boundary proposals for Welsh constituencies have been released?: https://www.bcw-reviews.org.uk/

[HanoiVillan]

oops

 

[desensitized43]

11 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

oops

 

Genuinely reminded me of this incident

 

[markavfc40]

I have been saying for years that we should raise taxes to help fund better public services and help those with the least so in that regard I have no argument with tax rises and I am happy to pay more in tax. What I do have a big problem with is that this tax rise will also apply to those who already have next to f all and simply can't afford it. It should have been targeted at those with the broadest shoulders and anyone on say less than 20-25k should not be included

Edited September 8, 2021 by markavfc40

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

20 hours ago, Wainy316 said:

Not likely to be this government’s poll tax moment then ...

 

However, when polled with a less Tory friendly spin to the question, net support drops to -12%.

[Xela]

The property issue is a tricky one. Lots of properties in tourist areas now get hoovered up to be holiday lets/Air BnBs, and these can destroy an area for the residents. Basically turning their road or block of flats into party central at weekends with stag/hen dos and people who are just there for a holiday. 

There needs to be a huge increase in taxation on second/weekend homes and holiday lets. This will exclude genuine rental stock though as we do need this. 

Thats quite a lefty policy for me! 15 years on VT is rubbing off! 

[chrisp65]

12 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

@chrisp65 Did you see the initial new boundary proposals for Welsh constituencies have been released?: https://www.bcw-reviews.org.uk/

I did yes, thanks.

The main take, is that Labour and Plaid lose 6 seats in total, the tories only lose 2. Less representation in a Westminster baking in perpetual tory rule.

Long term, fingers crossed that has a very positive impact.

Annibyniaeth i Gymru.

 

[mjmooney]

[bickster]

4 hours ago, mjmooney said:

actually 10.4% for the sake of accuracy