Election Night 2015

[tonyh29]

 

 

 

 

They'll still be an NHS but it will be shit. Like America you'll need health insurance or face crippling bills or a long wait.

 

The Kings Fund report March 2015

 

 

There has been growth in non-NHS provision of care, but there has been no wholesale privatisation of the NHS. It is hard to predict the extent of further growth of non-NHS provision in the short to medium term. The appetite for such work, particularly among commercial organisations, may be limited given the degree of financial pressure within the system and more limited prospect of profit generation. On the other hand, the NHS may make use of spare capacity in the private sector to treat patients when targets are missed if NHS hospitals are unable to take on this work, as has happened under successive governments.

 

For-profit, non-profit and NHS providers can provide high-quality care and equally all sectors can fail to do so. Whether a provider (public or private) makes a surplus/profit from its trading with the NHS does not automatically mean that quality of care is compromised. The Fund’s view is that who provides the service is less important than the quality and efficiency of the care that is provided.

 

I'm not sure how this suddenly became an America style Healthcare system

 

 

I've seen that quote before somewhere. 

 

Became? I'm on about the future so used the future tense. It won't be sudden and it will be subtle. I thought privatisation was Tory ideology.

 

PFI anyone

 

though it could be quantified by pointing out that new Labour were the Tory party

 

 

So you don't disagree that we're headed towards the American style.

 

I'd already disagreed with you , didn't know I had to disagree twice to make it valid

[andyjsg]

I think the biggest issue for the NHS will be it crumbling under the weight of the obesity epidemic, add that to drinking and smoking related diseases, Im suprised it runs as well as it does. Maybe if people looked after themselves better the health system wouldnt be under so much strain.

And maybe if those lazy disabled people went out to work, we could cut down on benefits.

And maybe if we got rid of all those immigrants, we wouldn't have so many English people out of work.

And maybe if we could get out of Europe we can keep the pint and have non regulation shaped bananas [emoji14]

I agree though, people should take their health more seriously. Including me!

I dont know if you a serious as none of the things you mention seem relevant to my statement.

Hopefully people will literally get off their butts and do something. I read today that 500k applied for london marathon ballot and that is a good sign, shame only about 10k will get a place.

[darrenm]

I genuinely get the impression that Cameron gives a shit about the NHS. The doom mongering is misplaced IMO, he is a moderate Tory and will get more respect from the backbenchers due to delivering the majority. Let's face it, it's the moderate vote that won them the election, the hard right would have gone to UKIP. The promise of seven day opening for surgeries and improved funding to the NHS seem very good policies to me and go against them gleefully ripping up the health service.

 

They were knee-jerk policies quickly rolled out when it was apparent the NHS was a big issue for most voters. They've lied many times before, what makes this time different? Increased funding - great (although it's not enough by a long way) but doctors have already said the 7 day opening for surgeries is unworkable for at least 7 years as there aren't enough doctors available or even being trained.

 

 

They'll still be an NHS but it will be shit. Like America you'll need health insurance or face crippling bills or a long wait.

 

The Kings Fund report March 2015

 

 

There has been growth in non-NHS provision of care, but there has been no wholesale privatisation of the NHS. It is hard to predict the extent of further growth of non-NHS provision in the short to medium term. The appetite for such work, particularly among commercial organisations, may be limited given the degree of financial pressure within the system and more limited prospect of profit generation. On the other hand, the NHS may make use of spare capacity in the private sector to treat patients when targets are missed if NHS hospitals are unable to take on this work, as has happened under successive governments.

 

For-profit, non-profit and NHS providers can provide high-quality care and equally all sectors can fail to do so. Whether a provider (public or private) makes a surplus/profit from its trading with the NHS does not automatically mean that quality of care is compromised. The Fund’s view is that who provides the service is less important than the quality and efficiency of the care that is provided.

 

I'm not sure how this suddenly became an America style Healthcare system

 

 

Weasel words which don't really say anything. Privatisation means poorer service unless there is competition. Competition provides choice which forces better service but in a captive private environment, there is no motivation to provide anything more than the poorest (cheapest) service possible.

 

The NHS has to change, people live bloody ages now and people have babies all the time as well.

As soon as the tories talk about this change it automatically means they are privatising it.

 

The problem is simple - it just needs more money. It's been chronically underfunded for years.

Edited May 8, 2015 by darrenm

[tonyh29]

I genuinely get the impression that Cameron gives a shit about the NHS. The doom mongering is misplaced IMO, he is a moderate Tory and will get more respect from the backbenchers due to delivering the majority. Let's face it, it's the moderate vote that won them the election, the hard right would have gone to UKIP. The promise of seven day opening for surgeries and improved funding to the NHS seem very good policies to me and go against them gleefully ripping up the health service.

They were knee-jerk policies quickly rolled out when it was apparent the NHS was a big issue for most voters. They've lied many times before, what makes this time different? Increased funding - great (although it's not enough by a long way) but doctors have already said the 7 day opening for surgeries is unworkable for at least 7 years as there aren't enough doctors available or even being trained.

They'll still be an NHS but it will be shit. Like America you'll need health insurance or face crippling bills or a long wait.

The Kings Fund report March 2015

There has been growth in non-NHS provision of care, but there has been no wholesale privatisation of the NHS. It is hard to predict the extent of further growth of non-NHS provision in the short to medium term. The appetite for such work, particularly among commercial organisations, may be limited given the degree of financial pressure within the system and more limited prospect of profit generation. On the other hand, the NHS may make use of spare capacity in the private sector to treat patients when targets are missed if NHS hospitals are unable to take on this work, as has happened under successive governments.

For-profit, non-profit and NHS providers can provide high-quality care and equally all sectors can fail to do so. Whether a provider (public or private) makes a surplus/profit from its trading with the NHS does not automatically mean that quality of care is compromised. The Fund’s view is that who provides the service is less important than the quality and efficiency of the care that is provided.

I'm not sure how this suddenly became an America style Healthcare system

Weasel words which don't really say anything. Privatisation means poorer service unless there is competition. Competition provides choice which forces better service but in a captive private environment, there is no motivation to provide anything more than the poorest (cheapest) service possible.

The NHS has to change, people live bloody ages now and people have babies all the time as well.

As soon as the tories talk about this change it automatically means they are privatising it.

The problem is simple - it just needs more money. It's been chronically underfunded for years.

You do know that's the Kings fund isn't a political party don't you ?

[darrenm]

You do know that's the Kings fund isn't a political party don't you ?

 

 

Doesn't matter, I still disagree with them

[blunther]

Don't drinkers and smokers contribute more to the NHS in the way of tax than they cost it?I'm sure that stat gets trotted out all the time.

it's trotted out frequently , but it doesn't make it true   a 2010 study had smoking treatment costs roughly at £13.74 bn ( not accounting for costs that cant necessarily be measured) tax rasied by smoking was £11.1 bn so at face value smoking costs £2.64bn

Don't drinkers and smokers contribute more to the NHS in the way of tax than they cost it?I'm sure that stat gets trotted out all the time.

Not true sadly, just a stat shuffled out by people who want to defend their "right" to smoke and drink. Sadly people dont understand moderation.

shouldn't talk about Blandy like that

Once you add in how much is saved from not paying pensions for those who die of smoking related illnesses, I'd imagine smoking more than pays for itself....

[KHV]

More people should pay for private healthcare cover, it's not particularly expensive

[wazzap24]

 

 

They will have played a small part with their negative portrayal of Ed , but social media and it's bandwagons typically support the vocal left , arguably that should have had a bigger impact than the likes of the Sun and the Heil

 

 

Interestingly, the 'expert' on 5 Live sees it differently (as do I) in that people underestimate the power the written press still has and over estimate the impact of social media. 

 

Social Media remains a 'young persons' game at this point and I would suggest it's a largely different demographic that use it, as oppose to those who still take notice of the written press. I'm not saying there isn't cross over, of course there is, but I don't think it has the same level of influence on something like a GE. Maybe the next generation though. 

[wazzap24]

 

 

I think the biggest issue for the NHS will be it crumbling under the weight of the obesity epidemic, add that to drinking and smoking related diseases, Im suprised it runs as well as it does. Maybe if people looked after themselves better the health system wouldnt be under so much strain.

And maybe if those lazy disabled people went out to work, we could cut down on benefits.

And maybe if we got rid of all those immigrants, we wouldn't have so many English people out of work.

And maybe if we could get out of Europe we can keep the pint and have non regulation shaped bananas [emoji14]

I agree though, people should take their health more seriously. Including me!

I dont know if you a serious as none of the things you mention seem relevant to my statement.

Hopefully people will literally get off their butts and do something. I read today that 500k applied for london marathon ballot and that is a good sign, shame only about 10k will get a place.

 

 

A poor attempt at humour Andy and I agree with what your saying. 

[mjmooney]

Then again...

Never mind that the NHS is consistently rated as one of the best health services in the world.

So, for 'better' read 'more profitable'.

For "we" read "people with plenty of money".

[andyjsg]

Don't drinkers and smokers contribute more to the NHS in the way of tax than they cost it?I'm sure that stat gets trotted out all the time.

it's trotted out frequently , but it doesn't make it true a 2010 study had smoking treatment costs roughly at £13.74 bn ( not accounting for costs that cant necessarily be measured) tax rasied by smoking was £11.1 bn so at face value smoking costs £2.64bn

Don't drinkers and smokers contribute more to the NHS in the way of tax than they cost it?I'm sure that stat gets trotted out all the time.

Not true sadly, just a stat shuffled out by people who want to defend their "right" to smoke and drink. Sadly people dont understand moderation.

shouldn't talk about Blandy like that [emoji14]

Once you add in how much is saved from not paying pensions for those who die of smoking related illnesses, I'd imagine smoking more than pays for itself....

Again not true, you must be british american tobacco lobyists dream.

I recommend a watch of John Olivers show about these companies.

[wazzap24]

More people should pay for private healthcare cover, it's not particularly expensive

 

The problem with that is, some of the 'cheaper' private healthcare packages are like cheap car insurance. The price looks great,  but when you actually need it, the fun really starts! 

 

I get 'cover' through work. It's great for minor stuff, but the big stuff is strictly off limit unless I top it up with ridiculous premiums. 

 

Its what worries me about a Health Insurance system like the yanks have, these insurance companies are worse than bankers when it comes to fleecing Joe Public. 

[PompeyVillan]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/scrap-the-human-rights-act-and-keep-ttip-heres-what-you-voted-for-and-will-get-with-a-tory-government-britain-10235374.html

Scrap the Human Rights Act and keep TTIP: Here's what you voted for and will get with a Tory government, Britain

Without the steadying hand of the Lib Dems, inequality will increase

By LEE WILLIAMS

Friday 08 May 2015

I never thought I’d say a Tory victory feels like Christmas, but it really does. It’s just that we, the electorate, are the turkeys.

No doubt we’ll get what we voted for – five more years of the same, with a little bit more thrown on top. So let’s just remind ourselves what that’s going to look like.

First of all there’s that little matter of £12bn worth of cuts to the welfare system which the Conservatives have kept, wisely, under their hats. This will hit hardest the people who can least afford it – the poor, the disabled, the disadvantaged. The death toll due to welfare cuts will continue to mount. But never mind, hey? At least unemployment will continue to fall as more poor people are forced into unfair and inadequate contracts. In turn the number of food banks will continue to rise – already up from 56 to 445 under the Tories – as they desperately try to keep up with spiralling poverty.

Inequality will increase as the Tories, without the steadying hand of the Lib Dems, will pursue their policy of tax breaks for the rich and cuts to the poor, even more rampantly now. But that’s okay, because this is trickle-down economics where we all feel the benefits of the top 1 per cent getting richer, right?

We will see the continuing creeping privatisation of our health and education systems with more state-owned schools sold off as academies. The NHS will continue its slow death by a thousand cuts as one-by-one its parts are auctioned off to private businesses. But hey, it’ll still be free at the point of use.

Cuts will continue to fall heavily on local councils and public services like the police, fire and prison services, which are already stretched dangerously thin. But that’s okay because we can hand over large parts of their responsibility to private companies like the security firm G4S, which will be nice. And at least we won’t have to pay more taxes… probably.

We’ll get a referendum on Europe so we can continue to pull up the drawbridge on the rest of the world and also free ourselves of all that ridiculous EU meddling – like the Human Rights Act, which the Tories want to scrap. Won’t it be good to be free of all that tedious bureaucracy? Although we might keep the good bits, like TTIP, which will hand over swathes of our national sovereignty to multi-national corporations. But that’s okay because foreigners are alright as long as they’re big businesses; it’s only the poor ones we don’t like.

More power to big corporations and business as usual for the banks will be the watchwords. Because, hey, if we’re too unfair on them, they’ll all leave the country and that would be the equivalent to Armageddon, right… right?

Perhaps worst of all, we have seen a premature end to the brief flowering of plurality in our politics and the first steps towards greater democracy. With the coalition government we at least had the Lib Dems holding the Tories back from their more rampantly unfair policies. Now they have free rein and a far right able to exert more pressure with the threat of defection to an increasingly popular – but unfairly represented – Ukip.

It seems our brief flirtation with multi-party politics, which galvanised so many more people to vote, is now over. But that’s okay, now we will have a strong hand on the tiller, right? Things will get done, right?  Yes indeed, things will get done – see above.

So anyway, Merry Christmas everyone! There’s a great big carve up coming our way! I might start basting myself now…

[AvfcTheObsession]

As a type-1 diabetic I hope the NHS doesn't get privatised as this will mean me paying for my monthly prescription and other health costs. Whilst I understand people saying the NHS is under-funded, I'd like to point out that it's also highly inefficient, and the fact that it may well be under-funded seems to mean people think they can be less efficient and just blame the perceived lack of funding. As an example, the packing used for one of the things I get as part of my monthly prescription comes in around 6-8 small tubes, all boxed up, and what is actually inside the tubes I transfer into half as many as it originally comes in, they are double the size they need to be, wasting plastic and packaging in the process. Now that's just one example, but think how many people are diabetic, it's a lot of money being wasted. The NHS needs  lean transformation, then we review the funding situation.

Edited May 8, 2015 by AvfcTheObsession

[markavfc40]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/scrap-the-human-rights-act-and-keep-ttip-heres-what-you-voted-for-and-will-get-with-a-tory-government-britain-10235374.html

 

 

 

I said earlier I was going to try and put politics on the back burner for a while. I have just dipped my toe back in here though and read that and it puts into stark reality exactly what we have as a nation just voted for.

 

I have said it before but many have never seen a Conservative majority government and a lot of us are going to be in for a nasty shock.

[KJT123]

I'm not much of a political expert so I have a question: Does this mean that things really are going to be as bad as everyone is making out, or is there just a lot of overreacting? Genuine question. 

Edited May 8, 2015 by KJT123

[blandy]

 

Don't drinkers and smokers contribute more to the NHS in the way of tax than they cost it? Sadly people dont understand moderation.

shouldn't talk about Blandy like that

 

 

Please explain.

 

 

 

 

 

[colhint]

So if the Shadow Chancellor has lost his  seat, does that mean the Labour party have been castrated?

[wazzap24]

I think his Mrs has all the 'Balls' in that relationship Colhint! 

[villa4europe]

I **** hate food bank stats, ban smokers, drinkers and gamblers from using them and then see if the numbers continue to increase

I admittedly don't know many people that use them but everyone that I do smokes, spend £6 a day on cigarettes and then use a food bank, it's bullshit