Election Night 2015

[Xela]

If the Conservatives are so evil and eat babies and let people starve to death on the streets, how come they keep winning elections?

[Stevo985]

If the Conservatives are so evil and eat babies and let people starve to death on the streets, how come they keep winning elections?

As far as I can tell from VT, it's because everyone is a selfish, racist, idiot.

[Wainy316]

The money that benefit fraud costs the state is absolutely minuscule in the grand scheme of things, but it is a very effective political weapon designed to turn middle class against poorer class, and distract from who the middle class should be angry with, the people who actually affect what they earn.

 

As I've said before, you think because you wear a shirt and tie, and the richest of the rich wear a shirt and tie, you're like them, when in fact your income is far closer to that of the woman who goes around in her pyjamas all day. And you say that's because the woman in the pyjamas earns too much. No, it's because you earn too little because the man you consider your peer, even though his income vastly eclipses yours, earns too much. You are poor too, you just work harder to be poor and get angry at other poor people who don't work as hard, when you should be angrier at those that earn so much.

 

You live near the breadline. The poor person lives below the breadline. The rich person can't see the breadline. The problem is with your income being so close to the breadline, when it needn't be if things were a bit more fair. If you were earning more, you wouldn't give a shit what the poor earned, or about immigration. And as an aside, it's worth remembering that the more money the poor have, the better the economy of a country does, because there's a lot of them and they spend their money, while the rich don't spend their money, so the economy stays small. No VAT, no tax paid by small businesses where they poor might spend their money, no staff required where the poor spend their money, no income tax paid by that staff, that staff then being off the dole as a benefit to the state, and then also having more money to spend in local businesses, and so on. More tax for the NHS and better quality of life all round. We should be throwing money at the poor.

 

And yet they're still thought of as the bad guys. Technology has made so many jobs irrelevant, and capitalism has meant that the money saved by those jobs being made obsolete is filtered all the way to the richest. In business, no decision was ever made that benefitted the take home pay of the employees below the rank of where the decision was made, and so money has been getting sucked to the top for decades. If technology had been used to benefit all, everyone would work a lot fewer hours every week, and have a lot more leisure time, but instead, the benefit of the technology was all sent to the richest in society, and just made everyone towards the bottom much worse off. 

 

 

I clicked like midway through the second paragraph.

[wazzap24]

Labour deserve a kicking, but I fear the cost. England has swung to the right. Third place went to a racist party. NHS and environment are ****. Also expect tuition fees to go up again, with no upper limit.

 

I said last night when the exit poll was released that I feel really disconnected with what is happening at the moment. A huge rise in UKIP in terms of votes if not seats and the Tories getting more seats. There has certainly been a shift to the right.

I do have some hope that some of this swing to the right is based on the fact that we have a whole generation of people voting who have never seen the Conservatives governing on their own and they have only seen them in opposition or a coalition. There is little doubt that they will now be a different animal without the Lib Dems holding back some of their even more damaging policies that will decimate further our public services and welfare for those most in need.

I do honestly believe that many don't realize what they have let themselves in for.

Great post Mark and the last line in particular is spot on (you don't seem to have been pulled up on it though which is odd, I can only assume the right wingers have gone to work while us 'lefties' are on half days or sat at home claiming benefits!)

What SOME people have voted for and what they actually get are going to be poles apart over the next 4 years. By the time an unleashed Tory Government have made their £8bn of unfunded cuts, held a Euro referendum and stopped at nothing to achieve a budget surplus, this country could be a very different place.

I don't share others confidence in the Euro vote either. If that many people are daft enough to vote UKIP now, then why will they not vote to leave Europe in a year or two? If you are prepared to 'protest vote' in a GE then why not in a ER?

Interesting and scary times ahead. Hope it works out and we are all voting for George in 4 years becuase they did such a great job for the country AS A WHOLE.

[wazzap24]

If the Conservatives are so evil and eat babies and let people starve to death on the streets, how come they keep winning elections?

 

Because They (and their pals in the press) are great at convincing people that they don't! 

[tonyh29]

Would Ed have won without the Union vote ?

We've been through the numbers on the other (locked) thread.

Here is that post again:

it's already well documented Ed become leader of the Party, pushed over the finishing line by trade union members despite losing the vote among Labour MPs and full party members to David.

It ought to be pointed out that 84 of the 262 MPs & MEPs and about 30% of the party members who voted had Miliband E as their first choice (against 111 and 44% for Mili D), and 27.5% of the affiliate membership voters had Mili D as their first choice (as opposed to 41.5% for Mili E).

It could well be argued that Ed owes his election as party leader more down to the combination of MP/MEP votes and party members' votes than those of the affiliates (the former made up 30.72% of the 50.65% which saw him win).

Also contrary to the rules didn't the GMB and Unite post out the ballot paper, along with an envelope containing promotional material for Ed Miliband, their favoured candidate, in the same communication ?

I seem to remember something about that.

put it all together and , yep Risso's statement is indeed correct

No, it isn't.

Risso didn't say the unions was the sole reason Ed won and your figures back up my statement ..ed wouldn't have won without that 20% support of his 50% total thus they played a part

Edited May 8, 2015 by tonyh29

[Xela]

 

If the Conservatives are so evil and eat babies and let people starve to death on the streets, how come they keep winning elections?

 

Because They (and their pals in the press) are great at convincing people that they don't! 

 

 

Always pays to have good PR!

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Will/can Boris be in the cabinet?

 

I shudder at the thought of how right-wing this lot will be.

[mjmooney]

YLN's last post absolutely nails it. And it ought to have been Labour's manifesto.

[wazzap24]

Absolutely Xela, it's a massive coup for them, having Murdoch onside. The Tories owe this result in large parts to the support they have had from him. 

 

If if they hadn't had it, there would be no majority Government right now. 

 

Im sure he will be rewarded well for it in the coming months/years! 

Edited May 8, 2015 by wazzap24

[tonyh29]

Secretary of State for Scotland would be perfect for Boris

Should speed up the process of getting rid of them nicely

Secretary of State for Scotland would be perfect for Boris

Should speed up the process of getting rid of them nicely

[darrenm]

 

 

Can't tell if serious.

 

 

What have I said that you think wasn't serious?

 

Well actually, I still can't tell if you're serious. Mainly it's the use of capitals and zealot type wording (OMG!!!1one) which does it. But anyway..

 

 

BUT THE TORIES WON'T LET THOSE PEOPLE SUFFER, THEY DON'T WANT PEOPLE WAITING HOURS AND HOURS IN A&E, THE DOLE WILL STILL EXIST, I KNOW, I WAS ON IT FOR THREE MONTHS IN 2012! - I EVEN GOT A LETTER IN THAT THREE MONTHS SAYING THEY WERE RAISING THE PAYMENTS!!!!!

 

 

The Tories have always been after health privatisation. It's within their very ethos. They've privatised everything else, it's only the NHS remaining which is being slowly eroded by having all of its funding cut back (relative to inflation, population growth, demands etc). There's no doubt that the service is at breaking point, it's leading to real deaths of real people because it's almost not fit for purpose. I don't think anyone can argue against all of that. My supposition is that once it reaches a certain tipping point it'll be deemed unfit for purpose and broken up, being sold to the highest bidders. With that in mind, to address your points; they already are letting people suffer, it's everywhere. There's a story every few days of a patient being left to die because there weren't any nurses or beds available. My other half's department at a hospital is being run on less and less money all the time with less and less people. They're massively overworked and have near misses all the time. It won't be long before a patient gets killed because they were given the wrong blood due to the hospital worker being overtired. 

 

FFS, the care my nan got when she died in Russels Hall in 2013 was first class, the care my wifes grandmother got when she died in February this year was as good a house care as you could ask for, they installed a lift, a shower room, issued her with numerous wheelchairs (increasing in price as she got more disabled) and who was this all under? THE **** TORIES/Lib Dems.

 

It's great that you had a good experience. Personally, I've found that the human aspect of the NHS is still first class. Once you can actually get into the system of someone looking after you, people show they still care. That's very different to having their hours increased and wages cut (in real terms), overstretching these services. If you try and run a health service like a McDonald's, every now and again they'll get the order wrong. I find it increasingly difficult to get a GP appointment, to the point of not bothering any more. Stuff that the TV and the internet tell me to get checked out at the doctors I don't bother with because it requires a carefully scheduled phone call between 08:30:00 and 08:30:27 on the day of the appointment, otherwise they have already booked out their 2 appointments for that day.

 

I'm no glorious Tory supporter -  I voted Greens for ****'s sake ( ) - but no one is going to be left on the **** pavement and it would be the same, regardless of the government.

 

Conservative are and always have stood for business, privatisation, profit-making, capitalism. It's indisputable that they bend over backwards to sell off all public services to private buyers. Privatised services are forced to run on the smallest cost possible, which means people will be left on the pavement. It drives corporate greed, which drives the economy, but a lot of people get **** over in the process.

 

Your thinking (almost hatred) is much more deeper seeded than is normal.  We're not in the 1980s any more, shave your mullet and welcome to the internet.

GOD DAMN.

 

I'd say your ignorance is staggering. This is very real, please take your head out of the sand.

 

 

David Cameron in 2010: "We will stop the top-down reorganisation of the NHS"

: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-camerons-top-ten-lies-692469

 

Well worry no more, Tories are set to put £8b over the next 5 years into the NHS and cut down waiting times to less than 4 hours

 

 

And you believe that? Actually, am I being trolled?

[tonyh29]

YLN's last post absolutely nails it. And it ought to have been Labour's manifesto.

Then they'd have lost by an even bigger margin

 

 

Edit - that's not a reflection on the posters view , more a reflection that I don't think it would go down with the electorate

Edited May 8, 2015 by tonyh29

[penguin]

Whilst it may be a small minority of benefit claimants overall, is of no wonder IMO that benefit scroungers are widely seen as such a problem when the public is constantly bombarded with shite such as 'Benefit Street'.

Edited May 8, 2015 by penguin

[lapal_fan]

The money that benefit fraud costs the state is absolutely minuscule in the grand scheme of things, but it is a very effective political weapon designed to turn middle class against poorer class, and distract from who the middle class should be angry with, the people who actually affect what they earn.

 

As I've said before, you think because you wear a shirt and tie, and the richest of the rich wear a shirt and tie, you're like them, when in fact your income is far closer to that of the woman who goes around in her pyjamas all day. And you say that's because the woman in the pyjamas earns too much. No, it's because you earn too little because the man you consider your peer, even though his income vastly eclipses yours, earns too much. You are poor too, you just work harder to be poor and get angry at other poor people who don't work as hard, when you should be angrier at those that earn so much.

 

You live near the breadline. The poor person lives below the breadline. The rich person can't see the breadline. The problem is with your income being so close to the breadline, when it needn't be if things were a bit more fair. If you were earning more, you wouldn't give a shit what the poor earned, or about immigration. And as an aside, it's worth remembering that the more money the poor have, the better the economy of a country does, because there's a lot of them and they spend their money, while the rich don't spend their money, so the economy stays small. No VAT, no tax paid by small businesses where they poor might spend their money, no staff required where the poor spend their money, no income tax paid by that staff, that staff then being off the dole as a benefit to the state, and then also having more money to spend in local businesses, and so on. More tax for the NHS and better quality of life all round. We should be throwing money at the poor.

 

And yet they're still thought of as the bad guys. Technology has made so many jobs irrelevant, and capitalism has meant that the money saved by those jobs being made obsolete is filtered all the way to the richest. In business, no decision was ever made that benefitted the take home pay of the employees below the rank of where the decision was made, and so money has been getting sucked to the top for decades. If technology had been used to benefit all, everyone would work a lot fewer hours every week, and have a lot more leisure time, but instead, the benefit of the technology was all sent to the richest in society, and just made everyone towards the bottom much worse off. 

 

I completely agree with the working hours thing.  Even yesterday I was sat in the office thinking, hang on, 30 years ago you had to be here, to pick up the phone, answer a fax etc, but now, with phones etc, we shouldn't have to work 5 day weeks (or certainly have to be sat in an office), it's completely draconian. 

 

But I don't agree that people on benefits are vilified, if they are, then that's the problem of specific - easily led - individuals.

 

Saying that, the 2 directors I work for work 7-7, sometimes work weekends, at years end work ridiculous hours, yet I on an average salary, work 9-5.

 

Those 2 directors are on more than 100k a year, so I'm asking you "what is rich"? because the people above my position work long, arduous hours. 

 

If you're talking about CEO's, then you might be right, his salary is $1.5m a year.  It just so happens he "earned" a further $26m in bonuses and a wad of shares in the company too.

 

THAT'S UNFAIR.  Especially as the company I work for got rid of ALL receptionists around the world.  I mean, I bet that was probably said, in jest, on the 12th hole on a Monday afternoon.

[tonyh29]

Absolutely Xela, it's a massive coup for them, having Murdoch onside. The Tories owe this result in large parts to the support they have had from him.

If if they hadn't had it, there would be no majority Government right now.

Im sure he will be rewarded well for it in the coming months/years!

You do know it wasn't the Sun wot won it in 1992 and I suspect they didn't win it for them this time around either

Ed lost this election live on BBC1 when he refused to acknowledge labours over spending ... Until that moment he'd fooled quite a few people and he had a chance ...that one sentence was when you heard a population say WTF

[wazzap24]

This is a quote from John Steinbeck and is about America, but it kind of sums up what I think the Tories have managed to pull off with this result. 

 

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I don't think the NHS will be completely broken up and privatised - the Tories will never be elected again if it happened. They will find a way to make money out of it, though, because a lot of their MPs will get rich of the back of it.

[Wainy316]

What would it take for a government to seize back all the services that have previously been privatised?

The previous labour government didn't bother.  Would it take a party like the Greens to actually do something like this?

[norwegianvillain]

Wow never thought I would see the scots ensuring a Tory victory. 

 

The FPTP system is pretty f**** up.