Election Night 2015

[snowychap]

We had a referendum, people are happy with the current form of representation. Its not going to change.

Circumstances can change and people can change their minds (especially if the former happens).

Rather like the scottish independence referendum, I don't get this idea that, because the question has been asked once, it may not/will not be asked again.

I'm not talking the Irish EU referndum ask again the following day kind of thing, obviously.

[StefanAVFC]

I don't think he was talking to you, Stefan

 

It looked that way   

[Seat68]

 

We had a referendum, people are happy with the current form of representation. Its not going to change.

Circumstances can change and people can change their minds (especially if the former happens).

Rather like the scottish independence referendum, I don't get this idea that, because the question has been asked once, it may not/will not be asked again.

I'm not talking the Irish EU referndum ask again the following day kind of thing, obviously.

 

 

True Snowy, I mean I cant see it happening in the next 5 years.

[VillaForever1970]

Aside from that (and you'll always be Polish to me now Stefan) it makes absolutely no sense.

I don't know about sickening, I can barely understand the point!

It was in jest, badly put apologies Stefan wasn't aimed at you.

More to do with are the Tories not trying to sort out benefit culture? Are there not people out there who could work but have not because they'll get more money of the government? Is trying to sort this out a good or bad thing?

[snowychap]

True Snowy, I mean I cant see it happening in the next 5 years.

Oh, I largely agree.

Though the EU referendum and any knock on for Scotland may change things but I doubt it.

[StefanAVFC]

I stitched myself up there.

 

Lets not target the fractional amount 'benefit cheats' cost the system, instead focus on the rich people who dodge tax. But those rich people fund the conservatives so not a chance.

 

It's sickening that they'll go after the easiest targets. At the moment that's immigrants and those on benefits, when in truth, the money they cost is nothing compared to tax evasion.

[lapal_fan]

 

Aside from that (and you'll always be Polish to me now Stefan) it makes absolutely no sense.

I don't know about sickening, I can barely understand the point!

It was in jest, badly put apologies Stefan wasn't aimed at you.

More to do with are the Tories not trying to sort out benefit culture? Are there not people out there who could work but have not because they'll get more money of the government? Is trying to sort this out a good or bad thing?

 

It is a good thing, but the counter argument is that the tories will allow rich people (bankers & big companies) not to pay much tax, which vastly outweighs the money we give out to fraudulent benefits cheats.

 

Of course, none of it should be allowed and the Tories have said that they will ensure they cut these loop holes and that big companies won't have a choice but to pay tax.  As well as saying they'll crack down on benefit fraud.

 

So essentially both sides of the argument are trying to argue about which one is worse

 

It's all bullshit, everyone should be honest and pay tax etc, but guess what, out of 60+ million people, from rich to poor, there are always lying little scamps who try and get away with as much as possible.

 

I say this whilst sitting at my office desk, when I should be working - I am bad.

 

EDIT: see? Stefan just proved my point

Edited May 8, 2015 by lapal_fan

[Demitri_C]

i think that silly note labour left about having no money also contributed to their major flop. what a silly thing to and a huge own goal.

[snowychap]

Blimey, they've let Shapps out of his dungeon!

[Demitri_C]

 

 

Aside from that (and you'll always be Polish to me now Stefan) it makes absolutely no sense.

I don't know about sickening, I can barely understand the point!

It was in jest, badly put apologies Stefan wasn't aimed at you.

More to do with are the Tories not trying to sort out benefit culture? Are there not people out there who could work but have not because they'll get more money of the government? Is trying to sort this out a good or bad thing?

 

It is a good thing, but the counter argument is that the tories will allow rich people (bankers & big companies) not to pay much tax, which vastly outweighs the money we give out to fraudulent benefits cheats.

 

Of course, none of it should be allowed and the Tories have said that they will ensure they cut these loop holes and that big companies won't have a choice but to pay tax.  As well as saying they'll crack down on benefit fraud.

 

So essentially both sides of the argument are trying to argue about which one is worse

 

It's all bullshit, everyone should be honest and pay tax etc, but guess what, out of 60+ million people, from rich to poor, there are always lying little scamps who try and get away with as much as possible.

 

I say this whilst sitting at my office desk, when I should be working - I am bad.

 

EDIT: see? Stefan just proved my point

 

Yes its just like someone on benefits also working and cheating the system. Thats equally as bad in my view

[StefanAVFC]

A company who avoids paying millions in tax is the same as somebody getting pennies in comparison 'cheating' the system?

 

I'm done.

Edited May 8, 2015 by StefanAVFC

[Wainy316]

 

 

 

Aside from that (and you'll always be Polish to me now Stefan) it makes absolutely no sense.

I don't know about sickening, I can barely understand the point!

It was in jest, badly put apologies Stefan wasn't aimed at you.

More to do with are the Tories not trying to sort out benefit culture? Are there not people out there who could work but have not because they'll get more money of the government? Is trying to sort this out a good or bad thing?

 

It is a good thing, but the counter argument is that the tories will allow rich people (bankers & big companies) not to pay much tax, which vastly outweighs the money we give out to fraudulent benefits cheats.

 

Of course, none of it should be allowed and the Tories have said that they will ensure they cut these loop holes and that big companies won't have a choice but to pay tax.  As well as saying they'll crack down on benefit fraud.

 

So essentially both sides of the argument are trying to argue about which one is worse

 

It's all bullshit, everyone should be honest and pay tax etc, but guess what, out of 60+ million people, from rich to poor, there are always lying little scamps who try and get away with as much as possible.

 

I say this whilst sitting at my office desk, when I should be working - I am bad.

 

EDIT: see? Stefan just proved my point

 

Yes its just like someone on benefits also working and cheating the system. Thats equally as bad in my view

 

 

 

It is on an individual level but costs us about 1% as much, so the other should be the prime target.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

the old eurosceptics crawling out of the woodwork.

 

just what we need - two years of old white men telling us how it is.

[lapal_fan]

 

 

 

Aside from that (and you'll always be Polish to me now Stefan) it makes absolutely no sense.

I don't know about sickening, I can barely understand the point!

It was in jest, badly put apologies Stefan wasn't aimed at you.

More to do with are the Tories not trying to sort out benefit culture? Are there not people out there who could work but have not because they'll get more money of the government? Is trying to sort this out a good or bad thing?

 

It is a good thing, but the counter argument is that the tories will allow rich people (bankers & big companies) not to pay much tax, which vastly outweighs the money we give out to fraudulent benefits cheats.

 

Of course, none of it should be allowed and the Tories have said that they will ensure they cut these loop holes and that big companies won't have a choice but to pay tax.  As well as saying they'll crack down on benefit fraud.

 

So essentially both sides of the argument are trying to argue about which one is worse

 

It's all bullshit, everyone should be honest and pay tax etc, but guess what, out of 60+ million people, from rich to poor, there are always lying little scamps who try and get away with as much as possible.

 

I say this whilst sitting at my office desk, when I should be working - I am bad.

 

EDIT: see? Stefan just proved my point

 

Yes its just like someone on benefits also working and cheating the system. Thats equally as bad in my view

 

That was my point Dem.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

A company who avoids paying millions in tax is the same as somebody getting pennies in comparison 'cheating' the system?

 

I'm done.

 

I don't think anybody said it's the same. But morally there is is little difference. It could also be argued that the company avoiding paying tax, through legal means, contributes FAR more to society as a whole than benefit cheats. 

 

Benefit cheats, including the millions of "cash in hand" types that are thankfully a dying breed are an actual thing that actually exist. The numbers involved are vastly different, that does not mean they should be allowed to get away with it. To do so would be more right wing than left in an "It's all about the individual" kind of way. 

[lapal_fan]

A company who avoids paying millions in tax is the same as somebody getting pennies in comparison 'cheating' the system?

 

I'm done.

But in some cases it's not pennies, some people have gotten £100,000's doing it.

 

But even if someone is fraudulently claiming £5 a week, it's still breaking the law.  By how much doesn't matter, you cannot break the law "a little bit".

 

And if you're referring to Tax avoidance, then as bad as it is, it's still legal.

 

Tax evasion on the other hand, is illegal and should be dealt with as accordingly.

 

A company who avoids paying millions in tax is the same as somebody getting pennies in comparison 'cheating' the system?

 

I'm done.

 

I don't think anybody said it's the same. But morally there is is little difference. It could also be argued that the company avoiding paying tax, through legal means, contributes FAR more to society as a whole than benefit cheats. 

 

Benefit cheats, including the millions of "cash in hand" types that are thankfully a dying breed are an actual thing that actually exist. The numbers involved are vastly different, that does not mean they should be allowed to get away with it. To do so would be more right wing than left in an "It's all about the individual" kind of way. 

 

Exactly, nicely put. 

 

As bad as each other, regardless of the sums involved.

[VillaForever1970]

It is a good thing, but the counter argument is that the tories will allow rich people (bankers & big companies) not to pay much tax, which vastly outweighs the money we give out to fraudulent benefits cheats.

Indeed and all should pay tax if they work, make money etc in the country. However, i think the whole rich get tax benefits under the tories is slightly exaggerated. Could it not be argued that if our tax system is more favourable than say France, a rich person is more likely to live here than in France and as they do pay some tax we are getting money off them; rather than them giving tax to another country and us getting nothing. Not as simple as that but you get my point.

[coda]

It is a good thing, but the counter argument is that the tories will allow rich people (bankers & big companies) not to pay much tax, which vastly outweighs the money we give out to fraudulent benefits cheats.

Indeed and all should pay tax if they work, make money etc in the country. However, i think the whole rich get tax benefits under the tories is slightly exaggerated. Could it not be argued that if our tax system is more favourable than say France, a rich person is more likely to live here than in France and as they do pay some tax we are getting money off them; rather than them giving tax to another country and us getting nothing. Not as simple as that but you get my point.

This is the problem with transfer pricing and multinationals paying a tiny %age in Luxembourg instead of the going rate here.

[YLN]

The money that benefit fraud costs the state is absolutely minuscule in the grand scheme of things, but it is a very effective political weapon designed to turn middle class against poorer class, and distract from who the middle class should be angry with, the people who actually affect what they earn.

 

As I've said before, you think because you wear a shirt and tie, and the richest of the rich wear a shirt and tie, you're like them, when in fact your income is far closer to that of the woman who goes around in her pyjamas all day. And you say that's because the woman in the pyjamas earns too much. No, it's because you earn too little because the man you consider your peer, even though his income vastly eclipses yours, earns too much. You are poor too, you just work harder to be poor and get angry at other poor people who don't work as hard, when you should be angrier at those that earn so much.

 

You live near the breadline. The poor person lives below the breadline. The rich person can't see the breadline. The problem is with your income being so close to the breadline, when it needn't be if things were a bit more fair. If you were earning more, you wouldn't give a shit what the poor earned, or about immigration. And as an aside, it's worth remembering that the more money the poor have, the better the economy of a country does, because there's a lot of them and they spend their money, while the rich don't spend their money, so the economy stays small. No VAT, no tax paid by small businesses where they poor might spend their money, no staff required where the poor spend their money, no income tax paid by that staff, that staff then being off the dole as a benefit to the state, and then also having more money to spend in local businesses, and so on. More tax for the NHS and better quality of life all round. We should be throwing money at the poor.

 

And yet they're still thought of as the bad guys. Technology has made so many jobs irrelevant, and capitalism has meant that the money saved by those jobs being made obsolete is filtered all the way to the richest. In business, no decision was ever made that benefitted the take home pay of the employees below the rank of where the decision was made, and so money has been getting sucked to the top for decades. If technology had been used to benefit all, everyone would work a lot fewer hours every week, and have a lot more leisure time, but instead, the benefit of the technology was all sent to the richest in society, and just made everyone towards the bottom much worse off. 

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

https://vine.co/v/emWPHTeTAd5/card

 

 

i lol'd