Election Night 2015

[Stevo985]

What would it take for a government to seize back all the services that have previously been privatised?

The previous labour government didn't bother.  Would it take a party like the Greens to actually do something like this?

It would take loads of money wouldn't it?

 

The companies who bought everything aren't going to just hand it back over.

[lapal_fan]

 

 

 

Can't tell if serious.

 

 

What have I said that you think wasn't serious?

 

Well actually, I still can't tell if you're serious. Mainly it's the use of capitals and zealot type wording (OMG!!!1one) which does it. But anyway..

 

 

BUT THE TORIES WON'T LET THOSE PEOPLE SUFFER, THEY DON'T WANT PEOPLE WAITING HOURS AND HOURS IN A&E, THE DOLE WILL STILL EXIST, I KNOW, I WAS ON IT FOR THREE MONTHS IN 2012! - I EVEN GOT A LETTER IN THAT THREE MONTHS SAYING THEY WERE RAISING THE PAYMENTS!!!!!

 

 

The Tories have always been after health privatisation. It's within their very ethos. They've privatised everything else, it's only the NHS remaining which is being slowly eroded by having all of its funding cut back (relative to inflation, population growth, demands etc). There's no doubt that the service is at breaking point, it's leading to real deaths of real people because it's almost not fit for purpose. I don't think anyone can argue against all of that. My supposition is that once it reaches a certain tipping point it'll be deemed unfit for purpose and broken up, being sold to the highest bidders. With that in mind, to address your points; they already are letting people suffer, it's everywhere. There's a story every few days of a patient being left to die because there weren't any nurses or beds available. My other half's department at a hospital is being run on less and less money all the time with less and less people. They're massively overworked and have near misses all the time. It won't be long before a patient gets killed because they were given the wrong blood due to the hospital worker being overtired. 

 

FFS, the care my nan got when she died in Russels Hall in 2013 was first class, the care my wifes grandmother got when she died in February this year was as good a house care as you could ask for, they installed a lift, a shower room, issued her with numerous wheelchairs (increasing in price as she got more disabled) and who was this all under? THE **** TORIES/Lib Dems.

 

It's great that you had a good experience. Personally, I've found that the human aspect of the NHS is still first class. Once you can actually get into the system of someone looking after you, people show they still care. That's very different to having their hours increased and wages cut (in real terms), overstretching these services. If you try and run a health service like a McDonald's, every now and again they'll get the order wrong. I find it increasingly difficult to get a GP appointment, to the point of not bothering any more. Stuff that the TV and the internet tell me to get checked out at the doctors I don't bother with because it requires a carefully scheduled phone call between 08:30:00 and 08:30:27 on the day of the appointment, otherwise they have already booked out their 2 appointments for that day.

 

I'm no glorious Tory supporter -  I voted Greens for ****'s sake ( ) - but no one is going to be left on the **** pavement and it would be the same, regardless of the government.

 

Conservative are and always have stood for business, privatisation, profit-making, capitalism. It's indisputable that they bend over backwards to sell off all public services to private buyers. Privatised services are forced to run on the smallest cost possible, which means people will be left on the pavement. It drives corporate greed, which drives the economy, but a lot of people get **** over in the process.

 

Your thinking (almost hatred) is much more deeper seeded than is normal.  We're not in the 1980s any more, shave your mullet and welcome to the internet.

GOD DAMN.

 

I'd say your ignorance is staggering. This is very real, please take your head out of the sand.

 

 

David Cameron in 2010: "We will stop the top-down reorganisation of the NHS"

: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-camerons-top-ten-lies-692469

 

Well worry no more, Tories are set to put £8b over the next 5 years into the NHS and cut down waiting times to less than 4 hours

 

 

And you believe that? Actually, am I being trolled?

 

 

Well if he doesn't he'll be a liar and will get voted out in the next election then, won't he?

 

The NHS is a behemoth that is much larger than any individual government.  It won't go away, especially not in 5 years.  Even Cameron's kids get NHS healthcare don't you know?

 

I actually know a lot of nurses (I don't know why) and they all earn more than my wife does, who works in the private sector.  Yes, she/they have had to work hard hours, but they're rewarded by good holiday, good pay (in most cases) and they love their jobs.  I know Ingram works in mental health and there are other health services which are not part of "the hospital" and these people can be paid lower wages than is probably fair, and I don't have the answer to it.  They weren't given huge pay rises in 97 though were they?  Are their wages fair compared to managers, CEOs, CFOs, Footballers? Course not, I agree. 

 

If you want to have a £100 bet on whether the NHS is suddenly (in the next 5 years) going to disappear and everyone will be sat outside of A&E begging to be treated because they can't afford it, I'd take you up on it. 

 

It's not going to happen, stop talking shit and stop with the Nigel Pearson sound bites.

 

Good to know us Greens share the same opinion

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Then again...

 

 

 

Never mind that the NHS is consistently rated as one of the best health services in the world.

 

So, for 'better' read 'more profitable'.

[Wainy316]

 

What would it take for a government to seize back all the services that have previously been privatised?

The previous labour government didn't bother.  Would it take a party like the Greens to actually do something like this?

It would take loads of money wouldn't it?

 

The companies who bought everything aren't going to just hand it back over.

 

 

 

Give it back and we let them live?  Sounds fair to me.

[coda]

They'll still be an NHS but it will be shit. Like America you'll need health insurance or face crippling bills or a long wait.

[wazzap24]

 

Absolutely Xela, it's a massive coup for them, having Murdoch onside. The Tories owe this result in large parts to the support they have had from him.

If if they hadn't had it, there would be no majority Government right now.

Im sure he will be rewarded well for it in the coming months/years!

You do know it wasn't the Sun wot won it in 1992 and I suspect they didn't win it for them this time around either

Ed lost this election live on BBC1 when he refused to acknowledge labours over spending ... Until that moment he'd fooled quite a few people and he had a chance ...that one sentence was when you heard a population say WTF

 

 

I think it's what got them he majority Tony, you must agree it's a big coup to have the Sun, the Mail and the Telegraph, not just pulling for you, but trying to put the absolute fear of God up people regarding the alternative? 

 

I kind of of do and don't agree on the spending. I agree its part of the reason they lost, but more because they didn't have the brains, bollocks and press backing to convince people that the Tories are wrong about austerity and the need for a budget surplus. 

 

There are genuinely people who believe Labour caused the last recession and it was used as a weapon brilliantly by the Tories. 

 

I genuinely congratulate  them on pulling it off, in the same way you have to congratulate Mayweather on beating Pacman or Chelsea winning the league. Not what I wanted by any stretch, but you have to admire how they did it. 

Edited May 8, 2015 by wazzap24

[sharkyvilla]

I genuinely get the impression that Cameron gives a shit about the NHS. The doom mongering is misplaced IMO, he is a moderate Tory and will get more respect from the backbenchers due to delivering the majority. Let's face it, it's the moderate vote that won them the election, the hard right would have gone to UKIP. The promise of seven day opening for surgeries and improved funding to the NHS seem very good policies to me and go against them gleefully ripping up the health service.

[tonyh29]

They'll still be an NHS but it will be shit. Like America you'll need health insurance or face crippling bills or a long wait.

 

The Kings Fund report March 2015

There has been growth in non-NHS provision of care, but there has been no wholesale privatisation of the NHS. It is hard to predict the extent of further growth of non-NHS provision in the short to medium term. The appetite for such work, particularly among commercial organisations, may be limited given the degree of financial pressure within the system and more limited prospect of profit generation. On the other hand, the NHS may make use of spare capacity in the private sector to treat patients when targets are missed if NHS hospitals are unable to take on this work, as has happened under successive governments.

 

For-profit, non-profit and NHS providers can provide high-quality care and equally all sectors can fail to do so. Whether a provider (public or private) makes a surplus/profit from its trading with the NHS does not automatically mean that quality of care is compromised. The Fund’s view is that who provides the service is less important than the quality and efficiency of the care that is provided.

 

I'm not sure how this suddenly became an America style Healthcare system

[VillaForever1970]

The NHS has to change, people live bloody ages now and people have babies all the time as well.

As soon as the tories talk about this change it automatically means they are privatising it.

[Xann]

I'm not sure how this suddenly became an America style Healthcare system

 

Chip chip chip

[tonyh29]

 

 

Absolutely Xela, it's a massive coup for them, having Murdoch onside. The Tories owe this result in large parts to the support they have had from him.

If if they hadn't had it, there would be no majority Government right now.

Im sure he will be rewarded well for it in the coming months/years!

You do know it wasn't the Sun wot won it in 1992 and I suspect they didn't win it for them this time around either

Ed lost this election live on BBC1 when he refused to acknowledge labours over spending ... Until that moment he'd fooled quite a few people and he had a chance ...that one sentence was when you heard a population say WTF

 

 

I think it's what got them he majority Tony, you must agree it's a big coup to have the Sun, the Mail and the Telegraph, not just pulling for you, but trying to put the absolute fear of God up people regarding the alternative? 

 

I kind of of do and don't agree on the spending. I agree its part of the reason they lost, but more because they didn't have the brains, bollocks and press backing to convince people that the Tories are wrong about austerity and the need for a budget surplus. 

 

There are genuinely people who believe Labour caused the last recession and it was used as a weapon brilliantly by the Tories. 

 

I genuinely congratulate  them on pulling it off, in the same way you have to congratulate Mayweather on beating Pacman or Chelsea winning the league. Not what I wanted by any stretch, but you have to admire how they did it. 

 

but the left had Russell Brand , surely that more than balances it out

 

They will have played a small part with their negative portrayal of Ed , but social media and it's bandwagons typically support the vocal left , arguably that should have had a bigger impact than the likes of the Sun and the Heil

[andyjsg]

I think the biggest issue for the NHS will be it crumbling under the weight of the obesity epidemic, add that to drinking and smoking related diseases, Im suprised it runs as well as it does. Maybe if people looked after themselves better the health system wouldnt be under so much strain.

[Stevo985]

Don't drinkers and smokers contribute more to the NHS in the way of tax than they cost it?

I'm sure that stat gets trotted out all the time.

[coda]

 

They'll still be an NHS but it will be shit. Like America you'll need health insurance or face crippling bills or a long wait.

 

The Kings Fund report March 2015

 

 

There has been growth in non-NHS provision of care, but there has been no wholesale privatisation of the NHS. It is hard to predict the extent of further growth of non-NHS provision in the short to medium term. The appetite for such work, particularly among commercial organisations, may be limited given the degree of financial pressure within the system and more limited prospect of profit generation. On the other hand, the NHS may make use of spare capacity in the private sector to treat patients when targets are missed if NHS hospitals are unable to take on this work, as has happened under successive governments.

 

For-profit, non-profit and NHS providers can provide high-quality care and equally all sectors can fail to do so. Whether a provider (public or private) makes a surplus/profit from its trading with the NHS does not automatically mean that quality of care is compromised. The Fund’s view is that who provides the service is less important than the quality and efficiency of the care that is provided.

 

I'm not sure how this suddenly became an America style Healthcare system

 

 

I've seen that quote before somewhere. 

 

Became? I'm on about the future so used the future tense. It won't be sudden and it will be subtle. I thought privatisation was Tory ideology.

[tonyh29]

 

 

They'll still be an NHS but it will be shit. Like America you'll need health insurance or face crippling bills or a long wait.

 

The Kings Fund report March 2015

 

 

There has been growth in non-NHS provision of care, but there has been no wholesale privatisation of the NHS. It is hard to predict the extent of further growth of non-NHS provision in the short to medium term. The appetite for such work, particularly among commercial organisations, may be limited given the degree of financial pressure within the system and more limited prospect of profit generation. On the other hand, the NHS may make use of spare capacity in the private sector to treat patients when targets are missed if NHS hospitals are unable to take on this work, as has happened under successive governments.

 

For-profit, non-profit and NHS providers can provide high-quality care and equally all sectors can fail to do so. Whether a provider (public or private) makes a surplus/profit from its trading with the NHS does not automatically mean that quality of care is compromised. The Fund’s view is that who provides the service is less important than the quality and efficiency of the care that is provided.

 

I'm not sure how this suddenly became an America style Healthcare system

 

 

I've seen that quote before somewhere. 

 

Became? I'm on about the future so used the future tense. It won't be sudden and it will be subtle. I thought privatisation was Tory ideology.

 

PFI anyone

 

though it could be quantified by pointing out that new Labour were the Tory party

[colhint]

I think the biggest issue for the NHS will be it crumbling under the weight of the obesity epidemic, add that to drinking and smoking related diseases, Im suprised it runs as well as it does. Maybe if people looked after themselves better the health system wouldnt be under so much strain.

 

Can't be true, everyone's at food banks and can't afford to eat. 

[wazzap24]

I think the biggest issue for the NHS will be it crumbling under the weight of the obesity epidemic, add that to drinking and smoking related diseases, Im suprised it runs as well as it does. Maybe if people looked after themselves better the health system wouldnt be under so much strain.

 

And maybe if those lazy disabled people went out to work, we could cut down on benefits. 

 

And maybe if we got rid of all those immigrants, we wouldn't have so many English people out of work. 

 

And maybe if we could get out of Europe we can keep the pint and have non regulation shaped bananas 

 

I agree though, people should take their health more seriously. Including me! 

[andyjsg]

Don't drinkers and smokers contribute more to the NHS in the way of tax than they cost it?

I'm sure that stat gets trotted out all the time.

Not true sadly, just a stat shuffled out by people who want to defend their "right" to smoke and drink. Sadly people dont understand moderation.

[tonyh29]

Don't drinkers and smokers contribute more to the NHS in the way of tax than they cost it?

I'm sure that stat gets trotted out all the time.

it's trotted out frequently , but it doesn't make it true 

 

a 2010 study had smoking treatment costs roughly at £13.74 bn ( not accounting for costs that cant necessarily be measured)

 

tax rasied by smoking was £11.1 bn

 

so at face value smoking costs £2.64bn

 

Don't drinkers and smokers contribute more to the NHS in the way of tax than they cost it?

I'm sure that stat gets trotted out all the time.

Not true sadly, just a stat shuffled out by people who want to defend their "right" to smoke and drink. Sadly people dont understand moderation.

 

shouldn't talk about Blandy like that

[coda]

 

 

 

They'll still be an NHS but it will be shit. Like America you'll need health insurance or face crippling bills or a long wait.

 

The Kings Fund report March 2015

 

 

There has been growth in non-NHS provision of care, but there has been no wholesale privatisation of the NHS. It is hard to predict the extent of further growth of non-NHS provision in the short to medium term. The appetite for such work, particularly among commercial organisations, may be limited given the degree of financial pressure within the system and more limited prospect of profit generation. On the other hand, the NHS may make use of spare capacity in the private sector to treat patients when targets are missed if NHS hospitals are unable to take on this work, as has happened under successive governments.

 

For-profit, non-profit and NHS providers can provide high-quality care and equally all sectors can fail to do so. Whether a provider (public or private) makes a surplus/profit from its trading with the NHS does not automatically mean that quality of care is compromised. The Fund’s view is that who provides the service is less important than the quality and efficiency of the care that is provided.

 

I'm not sure how this suddenly became an America style Healthcare system

 

 

I've seen that quote before somewhere. 

 

Became? I'm on about the future so used the future tense. It won't be sudden and it will be subtle. I thought privatisation was Tory ideology.

 

PFI anyone

 

though it could be quantified by pointing out that new Labour were the Tory party

 

 

So you don't disagree that we're headed towards the American style.