Election Night 2015

[blandy]

Congratulations to the people of the UK who for the most part voted for banks, corporatism and racism. Now lie in it.

They didn't though - CONS 36.9% of votes, UKIP 12.6% of votes = 49.5% of votes on a 66% turnout so about a third of the UK voted for right wingers of various types.

2/3rds voted for left wing parties or didn't vote at all.

[snowychap]

a 2010 study had smoking treatment costs roughly at £13.74 bn ( not accounting for costs that cant necessarily be measured)

Apparently not.

The £13.74bn figure is the estimated 'cost to society' according to this page on the NICE website.

3. Treating smoking-related illnesses cost the NHS an estimated £2.7 billion in 2006 (Callum et al. 2010). The overall financial burden of all smoking to society has been estimated at £13.74 billion a year. This includes both NHS costs and loss of productivity because of illness and early death, as well as other factors (Nash and Featherstone 2010).

Edited May 8, 2015 by snowychap

[GENTLEMAN]

Spot on post from mark a bit further up. I'm just feeling like I don't belong in this country anymore.

Racists, europhobes, bankers and the middle to upper class is what makes up this country it seems.

Do not lose hope mate, keep persevering and stick to your values no matter the opposition or struggle you face - endure. I do believe this country is primarily made up of good people, powerless (and possibly confused or scared) they maybe, but good nevertheless. This is probably the idealist in me, but when us British are at our best, there are no better beings in the universe. Although, I can understand your pessimism and doubts.

 

But you DO belong in this country, I can assure you there are many more that share your anxiety regarding the future, but we will face it, speak up, stand together and more importantly support each other when (or if) those dark days come. A determined solidarity and united front can never be defeated, it can only inspire and help win the battle. Do not give up on your fellow people, because we will NEVER give up on you. 

 

I hate seeing people lose hope or be consumed by fear, especially over a general election result. I have a staunch belief that good human qualities and behaviour transcends the ballot box, making real change can happen in our country on a daily basis, even if sometimes it is only on a tiny level. Marking X on a sheet of paper every five years currently achieves little for us. Moreover, united people and strong wills have conquered the greatest of injustices to make positive changes to society across the globe. You cannot give up on us.

 

When every person entered the voting booth, I hope they voted with a clear conscience and for sound reasons. However, this election result does not stop us from influencing our every day lives, we can still treat others with the respect and consideration they deserve, fight against flagrant injustices, and stand-up for to protect the weakest and vulnerable of our society. Each person has the capacity to achieve a level of empathy, consideration and action, no matter who they are. All governments should be held to honour these values when making contentious decisions, because this is how you start building a proud and tolerant country for all.

 

And it is not worth worrying about the bankers, elitists and racists - you will never change that corrupt element of any society by voting, but those aforementioned isolated and morally bankrupt types will never change who me and you are as individuals. By being ourselves and having a clear conscience, we can hold our heads up high and make real change in this country. I urge people not to give in to the feelings of desperation and apathy, believe in your own ability and help build a better society for everybody through real everyday action. 

 

Keep the faith Ingram, I am with you bud. This is our home, our people and our country, no matter who has been elected to power. Chin up champ, you belong in this country because people like you are the heart, soul and mind of this great nation.

[PaulC]

 

a 2010 study had smoking treatment costs roughly at £13.74 bn ( not accounting for costs that cant necessarily be measured)

Apparently not.

The £13.74bn figure is the estimated 'cost to society' according to this page on the NICE website.

3. Treating smoking-related illnesses cost the NHS an estimated £2.7 billion in 2006 (Callum et al. 2010). The overall financial burden of all smoking to society has been estimated at £13.74 billion a year. This includes both NHS costs and loss of productivity because of illness and early death, as well as other factors (Nash and Featherstone 2010).

 

 

Any costs to the NHS in treatment of smoking related illnesses is heavily outweighed by tax revenue on cigarettes. (over 13 billion in taxes a year) In any case it saves on pensions and Welfare because smokers average life span is shorter. 

Edited May 8, 2015 by PaulC

[KHV]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/scrap-the-human-rights-act-and-keep-ttip-heres-what-you-voted-for-and-will-get-with-a-tory-government-britain-10235374.html

 

Scrap the Human Rights Act and keep TTIP: Here's what you voted for and will get with a Tory government, Britain

Without the steadying hand of the Lib Dems, inequality will increase

By LEE WILLIAMS

Friday 08 May 2015

I never thought I’d say a Tory victory feels like Christmas, but it really does. It’s just that we, the electorate, are the turkeys.

No doubt we’ll get what we voted for – five more years of the same, with a little bit more thrown on top. So let’s just remind ourselves what that’s going to look like.

First of all there’s that little matter of £12bn worth of cuts to the welfare system which the Conservatives have kept, wisely, under their hats. This will hit hardest the people who can least afford it – the poor, the disabled, the disadvantaged. The death toll due to welfare cuts will continue to mount. But never mind, hey? At least unemployment will continue to fall as more poor people are forced into unfair and inadequate contracts. In turn the number of food banks will continue to rise – already up from 56 to 445 under the Tories – as they desperately try to keep up with spiralling poverty.

Inequality will increase as the Tories, without the steadying hand of the Lib Dems, will pursue their policy of tax breaks for the rich and cuts to the poor, even more rampantly now. But that’s okay, because this is trickle-down economics where we all feel the benefits of the top 1 per cent getting richer, right?

We will see the continuing creeping privatisation of our health and education systems with more state-owned schools sold off as academies. The NHS will continue its slow death by a thousand cuts as one-by-one its parts are auctioned off to private businesses. But hey, it’ll still be free at the point of use.

Cuts will continue to fall heavily on local councils and public services like the police, fire and prison services, which are already stretched dangerously thin. But that’s okay because we can hand over large parts of their responsibility to private companies like the security firm G4S, which will be nice. And at least we won’t have to pay more taxes… probably.

We’ll get a referendum on Europe so we can continue to pull up the drawbridge on the rest of the world and also free ourselves of all that ridiculous EU meddling – like the Human Rights Act, which the Tories want to scrap. Won’t it be good to be free of all that tedious bureaucracy? Although we might keep the good bits, like TTIP, which will hand over swathes of our national sovereignty to multi-national corporations. But that’s okay because foreigners are alright as long as they’re big businesses; it’s only the poor ones we don’t like.

More power to big corporations and business as usual for the banks will be the watchwords. Because, hey, if we’re too unfair on them, they’ll all leave the country and that would be the equivalent to Armageddon, right… right?

Perhaps worst of all, we have seen a premature end to the brief flowering of plurality in our politics and the first steps towards greater democracy. With the coalition government we at least had the Lib Dems holding the Tories back from their more rampantly unfair policies. Now they have free rein and a far right able to exert more pressure with the threat of defection to an increasingly popular – but unfairly represented – Ukip.

It seems our brief flirtation with multi-party politics, which galvanised so many more people to vote, is now over. But that’s okay, now we will have a strong hand on the tiller, right? Things will get done, right?  Yes indeed, things will get done – see above.

So anyway, Merry Christmas everyone! There’s a great big carve up coming our way! I might start basting myself now…

 

Rather over dramatic

[ismail-villa]

I'm not really into politics, but I can't help but feel really disappointed at the fact that the Tories are back in power, as a majority. I felt like I was part of the future when i voted for the first time but now it's all a bit meh.

[andyjsg]

a 2010 study had smoking treatment costs roughly at £13.74 bn ( not accounting for costs that cant necessarily be measured)

Apparently not.

The £13.74bn figure is the estimated 'cost to society' according to this page on the NICE website.

3. Treating smoking-related illnesses cost the NHS an estimated £2.7 billion in 2006 (Callum et al. 2010). The overall financial burden of all smoking to society has been estimated at £13.74 billion a year. This includes both NHS costs and loss of productivity because of illness and early death, as well as other factors (Nash and Featherstone 2010).

Any costs to the NHS in treatment of smoking related illnesses is heavily outweighed by tax revenue on cigarettes. In any case it saves on pensions and Welfare because smokers average life span is shorter.

Doesnt matter how many times this is written, its not true.

[blandy]

Not bingo.  'Stuff everybody else' seems to be an accusation levelled at the Conservatives and their voters, while Labour supporters help old ladies across the street and voluntarily give their money away to the taxman.  When unions are calling people out on strike, eg the teachers, do they give a stuff that they're massively inconveniencing working parents, particularly lowly paid ones?  Do they stuff.  Or that the pensions they're striking about have to be paid by everybody else who for the most part don't get such generous retirement provisions?  What about striking Tube workers bringing London to a standstill and making the lives of people trying to get to work an utter misery? Well, the unions got Ed elected, and THAT'S what's caused this monumental defeat, so they'll have to suck it up and get on with it.  Everybody is in in it for themselves, but the left wing position is to make everybody equally badly off.

A couple of points - firstly Unions don't call people out on strike. They can't. It's the other way round. Workers in dispute with employers are legally required to hold ballots on any industrial action, if they vote to take that action, they don't get paid while they're taking that action (striking). It's not some cabal of union leaders manipulating workers - the workers take the decision. And strange as it may seem people on strike do give a stuff. Not only are they losing their wages, but they have kids, too, and travel needs. And why because one set of workers terms and conditions or pensions get cut, should every other set of workers have to just suck it up? What's wrong with fighting for preserving contractual or non-contractual terms and conditions, exactly?

[PaulC]

 

 

 

a 2010 study had smoking treatment costs roughly at £13.74 bn ( not accounting for costs that cant necessarily be measured)

Apparently not.

The £13.74bn figure is the estimated 'cost to society' according to this page on the NICE website.

3. Treating smoking-related illnesses cost the NHS an estimated £2.7 billion in 2006 (Callum et al. 2010). The overall financial burden of all smoking to society has been estimated at £13.74 billion a year. This includes both NHS costs and loss of productivity because of illness and early death, as well as other factors (Nash and Featherstone 2010).

Any costs to the NHS in treatment of smoking related illnesses is heavily outweighed by tax revenue on cigarettes. In any case it saves on pensions and Welfare because smokers average life span is shorter.

Doesnt matter how many times this is written, its not true.

 

 

You can only guess at overall costs to the NHS but the facts are there with taxes on Tobacco, so its very very true. If it knocks 10 years on average off people's lives think of the savings on state pensions. 

[snowychap]

Risso didn't say the unions was the sole reason Ed won...

He said, "Well, the unions got Ed elected..."

The implication in that claim is clear - he was not making a trivial comment about the make up of the Labour leadership electorate (i.e. that it was MPs, MEPs, party members and union members and affiliates that votes for Ed Miliband as leader).

and your figures back up my statement ..ed wouldn't have won without that 20% support of his 50% total thus they played a part

Really? Is that the level you'd like to reduce this to?

He wouldn't have won the election without the votes he got to win the election. No shit!

Edited May 8, 2015 by snowychap

[wazzap24]

My last work call of the day was to a good customer of mine, who voted Tory. 

 

He's just said (quote almost verbatim); 

 

"I never thought they would get an actual majority. I'm a supporter and even I don't think they should be let loose on their own. If I had known, I wouldn't have voted"! 

 

I asked him why he did and he said he thought it was the best way to ensure another coalition and stop the SNP

 

How many more might be feeling the tinge of regret today? Whatever the number, it will be a lot higher in a year or two! 

[tonyh29]

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/scrap-the-human-rights-act-and-keep-ttip-heres-what-you-voted-for-and-will-get-with-a-tory-government-britain-10235374.html

 

 

 

I said earlier I was going to try and put politics on the back burner for a while. I have just dipped my toe back in here though and read that and it puts into stark reality exactly what we have as a nation just voted for.

 

I have said it before but many have never seen a Conservative majority government and a lot of us are going to be in for a nasty shock.

 

Didn't know the Tory party launched their policies through the Independent comments page

 

try and forget about the scaremongering and wait and see what they actually do rather than what you think they will do ...

[PaulC]

My last work call of the day was to a good customer of mine, who voted Tory. 

 

He's just said (quote almost verbatim); 

 

"I never thought they would get an actual majority. I'm a supporter and even I don't think they should be let loose on their own. If I had known, I wouldn't have voted"! 

 

I asked him why he did and he said he thought it was the best way to ensure another coalition and stop the SNP

 

How many more might be feeling the tinge of regret today? Whatever the number, it will be a lot higher in a year or two! 

 

what a crap reason for voting Conservative.

[sharkyvilla]

I'm not much of a political expert so I have a question: Does this mean that things really are going to be as bad as everyone is making out, or is there just a lot of overreacting? Genuine question.

I wouldn't take that much notice, in general the left are more vociferous in expressing their views, hence why nobody really saw this result coming as the majority was largely silent. I'm sure most of the people are content with the way they voted, otherwise they wouldn't have voted, and are willing to wait and see what happens. I find the worst scenarios that people have come up with as being very unlikely and is mostly based upon deep-rooted prejudices against the Tories.

[KHV]

 

My last work call of the day was to a good customer of mine, who voted Tory. 

 

He's just said (quote almost verbatim); 

 

"I never thought they would get an actual majority. I'm a supporter and even I don't think they should be let loose on their own. If I had known, I wouldn't have voted"! 

 

I asked him why he did and he said he thought it was the best way to ensure another coalition and stop the SNP

 

How many more might be feeling the tinge of regret today? Whatever the number, it will be a lot higher in a year or two! 

 

what a crap reason for voting Conservative.

 

I know, he should have voted Tory becasue they are clearly the best and most capabale party of running the country

[wazzap24]

What do you think they will do Tony? 

 

I'm genuinely interested. We have what we have now and you seem like a pretty switched on bloke. 

 

Where are the £8bn of unfunded cuts going to come from? 

 

How are they going to stop the UKIP loonies and their own far right faction from destroying our relationship with the EU? 

 

Do do you think they can realistically achieve the mythical budget surplus, without massively cutting public services and putting more people into hardship? 

[wazzap24]

 

My last work call of the day was to a good customer of mine, who voted Tory. 

 

He's just said (quote almost verbatim); 

 

"I never thought they would get an actual majority. I'm a supporter and even I don't think they should be let loose on their own. If I had known, I wouldn't have voted"! 

 

I asked him why he did and he said he thought it was the best way to ensure another coalition and stop the SNP

 

How many more might be feeling the tinge of regret today? Whatever the number, it will be a lot higher in a year or two! 

 

what a crap reason for voting Conservative.

 

 

Yep, absolutely bonkers. 

[andyjsg]

 

 

 

 

a 2010 study had smoking treatment costs roughly at £13.74 bn ( not accounting for costs that cant necessarily be measured)

Apparently not.

The £13.74bn figure is the estimated 'cost to society' according to this page on the NICE website.

3. Treating smoking-related illnesses cost the NHS an estimated £2.7 billion in 2006 (Callum et al. 2010). The overall financial burden of all smoking to society has been estimated at £13.74 billion a year. This includes both NHS costs and loss of productivity because of illness and early death, as well as other factors (Nash and Featherstone 2010).

Any costs to the NHS in treatment of smoking related illnesses is heavily outweighed by tax revenue on cigarettes. In any case it saves on pensions and Welfare because smokers average life span is shorter.

Doesnt matter how many times this is written, its not true.

 

 

You can only guess at overall costs to the NHS but the facts are there with taxes on Tobacco, so its very very true. If it knocks 10 years on average off people's lives think of the savings on state pensions. 

 

 

But the money on tax is going back into general tax not just the NHS, so covers costs to try and educate on smoking (wasted because people ignore it), loss of business due to illness, benefits to people or families who can no longer work due to illness...need I go on?

 

I find it ironic that the word "ignorant" was used earlier on to describe Tory voters and all the "evil" things that the Tory's do, yet a large number of the same people give £6 a day to fund the most vile organisations on earth, who basically destroy lives, destory families, use child labour and bully whole countries into not allowing legislation to educate people on smoking. Your £6 a day is a actually a vote towards the ills of the world, rather than an opinion on what might possibly happen.

[tonyh29]

 

Risso didn't say the unions was the sole reason Ed won...

He said, "Well, the unions got Ed elected..."

The implication in that claim is clear - he was not making a trivial comment about the make up of the Labour leadership electorate (i.e. that it was MPs, MEPs, party members and union members and affiliates that votes for Ed Miliband as leader).

and your figures back up my statement ..ed wouldn't have won without that 20% support of his 50% total thus they played a part

Really? Is that the level you'd like to reduce this to?

He wouldn't have won the election without the votes he got to win the election. No shit!

 

 again though you've made a huge leap  on what Risso said and what you think he meant 

(you can now insert your Sir Humphrey reply that was pruned from the other thread)

 

as for the second part  , you should be clearer with your posts ,unlike you I didn't make a leap based around what you said v what I thought you meant

[tonyh29]

My last work call of the day was to a good customer of mine, who voted Tory. 

 

He's just said (quote almost verbatim); 

 

"I never thought they would get an actual majority. I'm a supporter and even I don't think they should be let loose on their own. If I had known, I wouldn't have voted"! 

 

I asked him why he did and he said he thought it was the best way to ensure another coalition and stop the SNP

 

How many more might be feeling the tinge of regret today? Whatever the number, it will be a lot higher in a year or two! 

He's just being humble and didn't want to rub your face in it  .. inside he's probably already deciding if tonights baby should be fried or BBQ'd

Edited May 8, 2015 by tonyh29