The Tim Sherwood Thread

[tylerreznik]

What seems remarkable to me, and, I would think, unprecedented, is how rapidly 80% want him out. It is just so early in the season. I think that what posters are seeing is a manager with a decent squad, in my opinion of course, who is making errors and not learning from them, and therefore will be unable to turn things around.

Probably close to 50% of fans didn't want him in the first place so not a huge surprise that the tide has turned so quickly for me.

Not only is he making mistakes week after week, the bigger worry for me is he is really starting to look like he knows he's well out of his depth in both body language and his by comments.  

Pre season he was all laughs and smiles, massive club, move the useless losers on, get some 'winners' in, it's all good, no worries, nothing to it guys type attitude.  

It's like over the past few weeks it's suddenly starting to dawn on him that actually being a manager is a bit more involved, not quite as easy as just picking a team and sending them out with some basic instructions.  Some opposition manager have the audacity to change formations mid match, WTF?!?  Some opposition manager do research and are prepared and able to nullify our strengths.

His latest comment about players not being fit enough really takes the cake.  If they aren't fit enough there is only person blame champ, and that's you...

It really wouldn't surprise me if he walks before he pushed, I reckon one or big loses (aka another 6-0 loss to the Saints...) may well tip him over the edge, he already looks lost.

[Villarocker]

I voted for him not to be sacked but that was based on him having time to play HIS team and for the players to have enough time to gel - 10 to 12 games. However, I would not be bothered if they sacked him and got someone else in. At this point, I was just about to type "as long as that person looked like an improvement". But, let's face it, there isn't much to improve on right now. I think that some folks are right when they say that we look like we are going backwards instead of improving.

What concerns me most is the things he keeps saying that, to me anyway, seem like he is digging his own grave:

1) A couple of weeks ago he played Clark at DCM against SHA and the team played long-ball tactics up to Gestede. He changed it second half and we managed to scrape a win to which he proclaimed was a tactic on his part. I mean, come on! The world of football pissed itself laughing at him for that.

2) Last season he vowed to keep us up and that we would never face a relegation battle under him. We drop into the bottom three following defeat at Liverpool and post match he's saying that this season was always going to be about staying in the league.

3) This week, he changes to a 3-5-2 formation and plays Hutton at right wing-back. In that formation, without so much emphasis on defending, surely Bacuna would have been the better option? He then changes to 4-3-3 second half (a tactic which led me to actually suggest that, if we had gone on to win the game, he would have said that he planned that tactic from the start a la SHA) and moves the first half's right CB to play left CB and again subs the poor Lescott who, for some reason, he continues to play from the start. After losing that game he then admits to not knowing his best team!

If he had any idea as to how he wanted to play or who his best players are then fair enough, I would be all for defending him. But, has been as his won words speak that he doesn't seem to know those things, well, it is hard to defend the man after that. Also, if results in the next 5 games go how the majority of fans think they will go, I doubt very much he will be any nearer to knowing his best team. We will be over a third of the way into the season by then and could very well be bottom of the league by then and several points from safety. Not past the point of survival but, it would be a difficult job for any new manager to come in and turn around.

I am not saying this is what we should do but, I have a feeling that this is what the thinking will be at the club: "Let's do what Leicester did and stand by Sherwood like Leicester did with Pearson last season." I think that will be the stance they take. It would be a gamble and a half if things are looking so bleak after the upcoming fixtures but, I just don't have any confidence in the board to actually get it right.

I want Sherwood to succeed, just like any other manager that is in charge of the club I love. I am just concerned that maybe this guy rode his luck last season and has been found out as being too inexperienced to cope with the situation he now finds himself in. Whatever the board decide, I hope they do not leave it too late and that they make the right decision for the good of the Villa.

[Zatman]

Part of the reason they're in the top five is because they've had an easy game against us. Leicester and Palace won't be anywhere near the top five once the season has finished.

them 2 would still be 7th or 8th if we didnt lose to them, so still not an easy game as some make out

better teams than us will lose to them 2 like West Ham and Chelsea for example

[AvfcTheObsession]

In the poll the Trent started, 20% think he should not be sacked. I'm really quite surprised its that high to be honest, certainly shows that the fanbase is not totally united in wanting him out.

# I appreciate the poll doesn'tcover or come close to covering the whole fanbase.

It's probably a case of those who want change will always be the ones posting. For one, I agree with most the criticism of Sherwood - primarily those relating to his team selections considering our opposition and failure to respond to what's happening on the pitch quickly enough, I'm less concerned by interviews and bravado that I perversely still quite enjoy - but I think it's such a risk changing the manager now for someone we still have no idea would be an improvement, even if the momentum is looking like its swinging that way. I guess from some people's perspective the scales don't look quite as tipped that way, yet.

 

I also think it's very easy to say that Allardyce could come in, or whoever else, and turn things around and make things OK for now, but there is absolutely no guarantee of that. Are we forgetting his stint at Newcastle? I think that is a far more familiar situation to us right now than his work at over achieving clubs he got promoted.

Put it this way, if I was in charge I wouldn't sack Sherwood right now, but if he was gone tonight I wouldn't be at all cut up about it. In general I feel quite deflated as I don't really envisage a situation where it gets considerably better. It's exactly how I was a month or so before Lambert got sacked, everyone was calling for his head and desperate to get a new manager in that would be instantly better just because he wasn't Lambert, but I still felt there was a chance to recover and the other options wouldn't have made a difference. Then, After the Hull game, those scales tipped for me and thankfully Fox made the right decision. Maybe another month from now the same will happen with Sherwood.

Then we'll hire the next man who starts well, stutters and we'll be sat in 17th place again, thinking about who else will save Aston Villa.

Whilst Big Sam is not the messiah, he did get 30 points from his 24 games at Newcastle, 1.25 points per game. If he came in to Villa now and managed that ratio, we'd end the season on 41/42 points, and almost guaranteed safety.

[sharkyvilla]

Part of the reason they're in the top five is because they've had an easy game against us. Leicester and Palace won't be anywhere near the top five once the season has finished.

them 2 would still be 7th or 8th if we didnt lose to them, so still not an easy game as some make out

better teams than us will lose to them 2 like West Ham and Chelsea for example

I'd still expect them to revert back to the mean as the season goes on.  After all, we had Leicester beaten until Tactics turned up, from which we haven't recovered.

[Robbie09]

Part of the reason they're in the top five is because they've had an easy game against us. Leicester and Palace won't be anywhere near the top five once the season has finished.

them 2 would still be 7th or 8th if we didnt lose to them, so still not an easy game as some make out

better teams than us will lose to them 2 like West Ham and Chelsea for example

quote

I agree with your point above but what is undeniable is that we lost both games as a result of his tactical shortcomings. He's been tactically outthought in practically every game this season.

[sexbelowsound]

That old 'players aren't fit enough' chestnut is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Spot on. It only works when you first come into a club, Not after a preseason.

 

This fitness thing worries me a bit. Didn’t Tim say he was pushing the lads to play at flat out match tempo during training sessions? Like it was an idea of his that no other manager uses. Are the players too knackered from over-training??

And then we remember he wouldn’t rest anybody before the cup final: players couldn’t keep up the tempo that day, no doubt about it.

Fitness can mask deficiencies in other areas:  11 superfit players can make life difficult for more talented opposition. Maybe that’s what he’s aiming at, because he doesn’t know how to organize them properly to play football?

I believe that's exactly what he is looking for. He wants the players to hide his tactical insecurities by 'putting in a shift'.

[rubberman]

Staying up this season of all seasons is a must.  Compensation to Sherwood and whatever backroom staff etc pale into insignificance.

 

I didn't want Tim, but respect the job he did keeping us up, even if it wasn't by much.  Over the summer the players coming in seemed exciting (if pretty much unknown to me) and the squad seemed to have a better balance.  

Defence looks as though it should be better overall - but isn't performing.  Down to Sherwood.

Midfield now has defensive and exciting attacking talent.  Surely this is how he wanted to play, yet week in, week out we see the attacking talent marginalised.

Forwards - was always going to be harder to fill, but we're not playing to the strengths of who we have bought (Rudy) or have no faith in them (Ayew).

Up until a couple of weeks ago I thought we were maybe unlucky not to have got a couple of results and our position was false.  Even now, we've 'only' been losing by single goals.  What has completely sent me over the the Sherwood out camp is the lack of any vision of where the team in going - formation, tactics, subs - all woeful.  I expected a bumpy season, with some big losses, some big wins - kind of what we're seeing Leicester achieve - really attacking with loads of belief, even if not the talent to always pull it off.  The starting line up for Stoke was the complete opposite and shows he's lost any confidence in himself and the players.  No point in wasting any more time.  Every other team bar Sunderland and Newcastle have shown that you can get results anywhere this season.  It's not too late to sort out and I think we have a squad that can do it.  Not with Tim though.  Time to get in the f'ing sea.

[useless]

Part of the reason they're in the top five is because they've had an easy game against us. Leicester and Palace won't be anywhere near the top five once the season has finished.

them 2 would still be 7th or 8th if we didnt lose to them, so still not an easy game as some make out

better teams than us will lose to them 2 like West Ham and Chelsea for example

If they'd have lost to us they'd be on 12 points, to be eighth at the moment you need 13 points, even we'd have drawn with them they wouldn't be in the top five now. I don't think it can be denied that we've a kind run of fixtures to start the season, and should have done a lot better than we have.

[Zatman]

Part of the reason they're in the top five is because they've had an easy game against us. Leicester and Palace won't be anywhere near the top five once the season has finished.

them 2 would still be 7th or 8th if we didnt lose to them, so still not an easy game as some make out

better teams than us will lose to them 2 like West Ham and Chelsea for example

If they'd have lost to us they'd be on 12 points, to be eighth at the moment you need 13 points, even we'd have drawn with them they wouldn't be in the top five now. I don't think it can be denied that we've a kind run of fixtures to start the season, and should have done a lot better than we have.

you do realise the teams in 7th and 8th would move up to 5th and 6th

[TRO]

There are many points of criticism of Sherwood on here that are feasible.....But there are also some that are poor & personal.

We all agree on one thing, the results are unacceptable.....and He knows that.

You would hope That He knows what his best team is, but with so many at different stages of development and injuries, its difficult so early, I think it is reasonable under those circumstances to say he is searching for a formula......There is No Given to say a more experienced manager would do any better....i.e McLaren,Advocatt, Pulis, Allydyce.

I think Tim's after match interviews started off quite well in his Villa Career, confident, brashy typical of how he played...... as the results have moved away from him.....nothing he is saying will negate the losses, he might as well say nothing and let positive results do the talking for him.

One thing that I find odd, is that the common view is that we have signed good players in the summer and i would not agree or disagree, time will tell for me.....yet the results are not reflecting that.....I think it would take some doing to get them to play badly, if they were good enough.....I see things from individuals that i find difficult to blame the manager for on the pitch, for signing the player in the first place, maybe.

When Saido mane went round Cahill like he was a schoolboy.....do you blame Mourinho for that?

Managers are not magicians, there is a limit that their influence will take them too.....The players must also take responsibility for the individual performance.

Either Tim Sherwood did sign good players in the summer or he didn't I'Mm not sure from this site......which it is?

I think we are making too many individual errors, Including the Manager......That is draining the life out of all of us.

[a m ole]

In the poll the Trent started, 20% think he should not be sacked. I'm really quite surprised its that high to be honest, certainly shows that the fanbase is not totally united in wanting him out.

# I appreciate the poll doesn'tcover or come close to covering the whole fanbase.

It's probably a case of those who want change will always be the ones posting. For one, I agree with most the criticism of Sherwood - primarily those relating to his team selections considering our opposition and failure to respond to what's happening on the pitch quickly enough, I'm less concerned by interviews and bravado that I perversely still quite enjoy - but I think it's such a risk changing the manager now for someone we still have no idea would be an improvement, even if the momentum is looking like its swinging that way. I guess from some people's perspective the scales don't look quite as tipped that way, yet.

 

I also think it's very easy to say that Allardyce could come in, or whoever else, and turn things around and make things OK for now, but there is absolutely no guarantee of that. Are we forgetting his stint at Newcastle? I think that is a far more familiar situation to us right now than his work at over achieving clubs he got promoted.

Put it this way, if I was in charge I wouldn't sack Sherwood right now, but if he was gone tonight I wouldn't be at all cut up about it. In general I feel quite deflated as I don't really envisage a situation where it gets considerably better. It's exactly how I was a month or so before Lambert got sacked, everyone was calling for his head and desperate to get a new manager in that would be instantly better just because he wasn't Lambert, but I still felt there was a chance to recover and the other options wouldn't have made a difference. Then, After the Hull game, those scales tipped for me and thankfully Fox made the right decision. Maybe another month from now the same will happen with Sherwood.

Then we'll hire the next man who starts well, stutters and we'll be sat in 17th place again, thinking about who else will save Aston Villa.

 

Whilst Big Sam is not the messiah, he did get 30 points from his 24 games at Newcastle, 1.25 points per game. If he came in to Villa now and managed that ratio, we'd end the season on 41/42 points, and almost guaranteed safety.

I can't argue against the points per game, but did Newcastle have a little more to their first 11 at that time? Milner was with them that season, along with a very experienced set of goal scorers in Owen, Martins and Viduka. You would only need to take out a handful of Jose goals to shift the balance. Obviously it's all hypothetical, but I guess that's my point, you really don't know what might happen.

[useless]

He's said today that he's going to keep changing the team until he stumbles upon a winning formula. People have called him a 'chancer', it's almost like he's admitting it himself now.

such a poor quote this is. Amateur at best. He has a pre season and 8+ games to get that squad winning games. It dont generally take a manager too long to identify his best team, i.e Pardew, Raneri, Flores, Bilic to name a few. But then I suppose they are experienced managers who had a plan, comes with experience you know....

To be fair it wasn't his exact quote but what he said basically equates to it. He's also using the excuse that he's still learning.

I don't see anything he's said that's wrong here?

He's going to change the team until he finds a successful mix - good!

He's still learning - I'd hope so, it's only his second job!

Sounds to me more like he hasn't got a clue what he's talking about. To win games perhaps the team needs some consistency so they can develop as a team, just randomly changing things until we stumble upon a win isn't go to help us find a winning formula.  I bet he wouldn't be talking about himself as still learning if he was winning games.

[TRO]

If Sherwood was to be sacked this Week.....I have absolutely no idea, who the manager is to turn this around.....and further more I have no more confidence it would be done.

I am loathe to pick him with a " Hat pin" just to satisfy the lust for change.

[Isa]

@bobzy

He's going to change the team until he finds a successful mix - good!

 

More like a blind man throwing a bunch of darts at a board until he hits the bullseye, as I see it.

[GENTLEMAN]

Have the club come out to publicly back him yet?

[BG_Villa_Fan]

@bobzy

 

He's going to change the team until he finds a successful mix - good!

 

More like a blind man throwing a bunch of darts at a board until he hits the bullseye, as I see it.

I'll make a wild guess that he's going to play a 4-2-3-1 at Chelsea, bravely and stupidly putting Gil, Grealish and Traore/Sinclair/Ayew about 30 yards ahead of the 2 defensive mids, thus creating an enormous space where Chelsea would control the game easily. He should have played 3-5-2 at Chelsea, but now that is has backfired at him he'll make a change for the sake of making a change like a true chancer. If he surprises me, I'll gladly give him credit. 

[AshVilla]

When your trying to integrate a team full of new players from another country why would you change the system/team every week

Pick one system and stick with it ffs stop trying to reinvent the wheel every other weekend

If we kept it simple played to our strengths we would start to see results in the long term

Tactics Tim won't do this though even if he did he would still choose the wrong players and still make the incorrect subs on a regular basis

He's out of his depth and needs to walk the experiment has run its course get rid now before its too late 

Edited October 5, 2015 by AshVilla

[TRO]

@bobzy

 

He's going to change the team until he finds a successful mix - good!

 

More like a blind man throwing a bunch of darts at a board until he hits the bullseye, as I see it.

                                      I understand your frustration....and if it helps i share it......but I have to say 10/10 for his honesty......I know it does'nt bode well for us as fans, but I equally know that many managers would not be honest/open & brave enough to admit to that.

Edited October 5, 2015 by TRO

[BG_Villa_Fan]

@bobzy

 

He's going to change the team until he finds a successful mix - good!

 

More like a blind man throwing a bunch of darts at a board until he hits the bullseye, as I see it.

                                      I understand your frustration....and if it helps i share it......but I have to say 10/10 for his honesty......I know it does'nt bode well for us as fans, but I equally know that many managers would not be honest/open & brave enough to admit to that.

You've mistyped stupid there. How do you think his players are feeling about this? Confident and knowing they can trust their manager?