The Tim Sherwood Thread

[HanoiVillan]

The comparisons are laughable

 

LGV and Man Utd obviously have very different targets to us but they are 2 points off top, 1 point clear of fifth having played 2 rivals for their position and 3 points from it

 

We're 4 points off our target, and that only if our target is stay up, which sherwood told us it wasn't, he said we'd never have to worry about relegation again, after 8 games we're 6 points off 12th, we've played four of the games we won last season and have 1 point from them

 

I would say give him time but I've seen absolutely nothing to suggest he'd do anything with it, we aren't getting better, we aren't taking baby steps and gelling, we're getting worse, going nowhere, anyone saying give him another 5-10 games, what are you expecting to happen in those games? Him to finally find his best 11 and a formation that works? Because in the last four games we've had three maybe even four winnable games and we've seen six line ups and six formations, complete game shifting subs at half time twice, and apart from one half vs championship sha we've been **** awful

 

I just don't see where the improvement is coming from unless there is some sort of miraculous penny dropping moment from sherwood, and we aren't that lucky

 

The only penny dropping moment will be from Tom fox and it's going to come too late

It's this part that's terrifying. We're already in the position that we're going to have to win a few games against the best teams in the league. Of course we're not down, but it ain't looking too clever right now. 

[StefanAVFC]

 

There are some very good writers on here that write some extremely balanced stuff......lets put all our personal hurt to one side and admit that calling for his head so early is embarrassing.

Nope, you said 'calling for his head so early is embarrassing'

Busted.

[terrytini]

I agree with TRO.

I stopped posting on here a couple of weeks ago as I found some of the comments aimed at the Manager pretty appalling, and the overall tone unpleasant and, in my view, unwarranted.

But I've popped back on just to say there are fans who don't want his head.

In my view nobody can dispute they are making their judgements on too short a period, whether pro or anti. The only question is whether you think a longer period will show more of the negatives we have undoubtedly seen, or more of the positives we have also undoubtedly seen.

And nobody can predict that, we are all just guessing.

My view is that whilst I hseen seen, especially in the last couple of games, some pretty poor stuff from Sherwood, it isn't conclusive, in the same way the good stuff I've seen isn't conclusive.

I haven't seen us really outplayed, and if, as some say, he is getting a lot wrong, then it would be reasonable to suggest that not much would have to improve for one goal defeats to become better results.

I am concerned that, a la Lambert, he seems to have shelved his attacking approach, as I think it is what's needed, but again, I can't on the one hand say I accept he is inexperienced then on the other expect him to manage like an old hand.

I do know I don't care what SOME Spurs fans thought of him, I find this idea that he is "chancer" pretty risible, it appears even from the word used that this has more to do with where he is from than any factual assessment of his skills as a coach (not succeeding doesn't make him a con), and whatever the Manager I always find it laughable when fans think they ' get' tactics that an army of management staff allegedly don't see......regardless of whether they work, I'm sure you'll find he knows Grealish is a more offensive option than Lescott, for example....the idea that some fans have that these guys are clueless is silly.

Anyhows, I'm not debating, I'm running off again, I admire you for flying the flag TRO so just chipped in, can't be bothered to argue it.

Time may show those who want him out called it right.....or it may not......but it will be just that, ' calling it'.....nobody knows for sure what'll happen, and I'd like to see him given longer.

[jackbauer24]

I wonder what Tim Sherwood is on wages wise. Not something that's ever discussed really, but I imagine being a inexperienced manager, young and widely considered a gamble that's it's not a great amount as far as managers go. Much like Lambert probably. I somehow doubt we could afford experienced managers, and when I say afford I just mean that in the language of Lerner.

Personally I don't care if Sherwood is sacked or not. I said exactly the same thing 6 months ago when everyone was screaming for Lambert's head. When will people learn, about 95% of our success is down, like it or not, to investment. How do people not recognise that if everything from the players, to the management, to the coaches to the Chief Exec has changed that the only constant in this failure is Lerner?

So who's the next manager without funds for transfers or more importantly wages?

Houllier - experienced old head. FAILED

McLeish - Local knowledge stupid gamble FAILED

Lambert - One years Prem experience, young grafting manager FAILED

Sherwood - mouthy young energetic chancer with no experience FAILING

It makes practically no difference who the manager is, a couple of places in the league maybe but Lerner has reduced the expenditure to such an extent that I genuinely believe that whoever the manager is now that we're fighting for 18th to 20th. Last year we were fighting for 17th to 19th. The year before that maybe 16th to 18th. We've been going one way for five years. And with such a obvious trajectory who realy thinks our wage bill hasn't gone down again this year?

Yes this is a white flag post. We aren't being relegated by Sherwood, we aren't being relegated by these first eight games, we're being relegated by systematic failures from Lerner. Chronic underinvestment has lead to this and it is now basically too late to do anything. Sherwood had to gamble abroad for cheap players, either transfers and/ or wages but it was always a gamble. Finally Lerner's luck has run out.

[maqroll]

Personal attacks and insults directed at the manager are inappropriate, IMO. Decorum is a virtue, after all. But I see nothing wrong with ridiculing, lambasting, criticizing, dissecting and parsing through his decisions as manager. It comes with the job, and he's failing badly right now. I think most people on here were willing to give him time, as long as there appeared to be progress being made, but not only is progress not being made, his decisions have really been the most obvious hindrance to progress. 

If Aston Villa were not enduring yet another season of utter shite, maybe fans would be more forgiving, and willing to give him a bit more time to sort it out.

But this is ridiculous. We deserve better, and surely we can find a manager out there who can stop the rot.

When you look at the fixture list, and then look at the manager, what do you envision for the club's immediate future? Success? If so, I'll have what you're smoking.

[lexicon]

The thing that worries me is that Fox lost his appointment cherry hiring Sherwood. He better not get all clingy and desperate despite the evidence.

[terrytini]

A comparison.

Sherwood has had 25 games against Premier opposition for Villa, including cups.

Lambert's first 25......won 6...drew 8....lost 11.....scored 27.....conceded 47 (-20)..."26 points " ( if all were League).....39/40 by 38 games

Lambert's last 25....won 5....drew 6.....lost 14.....scored 12....conceded 34 (-22)...."21 points"......32/33 by 38 games

Martin O Neil's first 25....won 5...drew 11...lost 9..scored 25..conceded 34. (-9)...."26 points ".....39/40 by 38 games

Sherwood.....,.................won 9.....drew 2....lost 14...scored 33.... conceded 42...(-9)..." 29 points"...44/45 by 38 games.....

Now things can be argued, different games used etc, different sequences, that will show different results...but there is nothing untrue in the above.

 

Imagine how good those stats would be if he gets to be any good at anything !!!

 

Edited October 5, 2015 by terrytini

[StefanAVFC]

A comparison.

Sherwood has had 25 games against Premier opposition for Villa, including cups.

Lambert's first 25......won 6...drew 8....lost 11.....scored 27.....conceded 47 (-20)..."26 points " ( if all were League).....39/40 by 38 games

Lambert's last 25....won 5....drew 6.....lost 14.....scored 12....conceded 34 (-22)...."21 points"......32/33 by 38 games

Martin O Neil's first 25....won 5...drew 11...lost 9..scored 25..conceded 34. (-9)...."26 points ".....39/40 by 38 games

Sherwood.....,.................won 9.....drew 2....lost 14...scored 33.... conceded 42...(-9)..." 29 points"...44/45 by 38 games.....

Now things can be argued, different games used etc, different sequences, that will show different results...but there is nothing untrue in the above.

 

Except that it's wrong.

Sherwood has won 6 games in the PL. Not 9.

Why have you included cup results for Sherwood, but not for the others? Because it makes Sherwood's results look better? You've added 9 points to his tally from games that didn't even yield points.

Here's a true reflection.

Sherwood for Villa in the PL - 21 games, 20 points (6 wins, 2 draws, 13!!! losses) - Averaging less than a point a game with 36 points over the course of a season.

Extremely poor. 12 losses in his first 21 is awful to be honest. Win percentage of 29%. And our worst ever start to a PL season which is dreadful considering the fixtures we had.

Edited October 5, 2015 by StefanAVFC

[villan_007]

I wonder what Tim Sherwood is on wages wise.

Reading Trent's post a fair few pages back, he is our highest paid manager of all time.

[KSV]

I wonder what Tim Sherwood is on wages wise.

 

Reading Trent's post a fair few pages back, he is our highest paid manager of all time.

lol this club has learnt nothing. Probably gets paid more than klopp 

[Isa]

By most reports, Lambert was on £2m-per-year (as was McLeish if I'm not mistaken) which would have put him within the top 15-20 highest paid managers in Europe bracket. Quite incredible if Sherwood is on anything significantly more, especially seeing as he got a three year contract plus. 

[ozvillafan]

I'd stick with Sherwood....

... if I could see some semblance of improvement or some target or even a plan.

I'm worried that, given up to Christmas, I still won't see any of those in which case his Christmas present should be a pink slip.

[Woodytom]

 I'm sure you'll find he knows Grealish is a more offensive option than Lescott, for example....the idea that some fans have that these guys are clueless is silly.

Agreed - if there wasn't more to it.

I actually think that there is a myth behind football management being some sort of specialist talent.

Sure, if I was to be dropped into premier league management I'd fall short, due to tactical awareness, contacts and just all round experience within the game at that level.

However....

I bet I could build a team spirit.

I bet I could communicate effectively

I bet I could demostrate  what I wanted to see

I bet I could motivate the players

I bet i would have the players respect

 

The fundamentals of it all is really not rocket science. And every single thing above I have experience of it in abundance, working with folk a lot more challenging than premier league footballers.

Now I'm not for one minute suggesting that I would make a successful premier league manager, but I'm not sure we've had a manager recently who has possessed all of those skills. 

Add to that the fact they haven't seem to have been tactically aware either and yoi start to see why we're in big big trouble.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Woodytom

[terrytini]

A comparison.

Sherwood has had 25 games against Premier opposition for Villa, including cups.

Lambert's first 25......won 6...drew 8....lost 11.....scored 27.....conceded 47 (-20)..."26 points " ( if all were League).....39/40 by 38 games

Lambert's last 25....won 5....drew 6.....lost 14.....scored 12....conceded 34 (-22)...."21 points"......32/33 by 38 games

Martin O Neil's first 25....won 5...drew 11...lost 9..scored 25..conceded 34. (-9)...."26 points ".....39/40 by 38 games

Sherwood.....,.................won 9.....drew 2....lost 14...scored 33.... conceded 42...(-9)..." 29 points"...44/45 by 38 games.....

Now things can be argued, different games used etc, different sequences, that will show different results...but there is nothing untrue in the above.

 

Except that it's wrong.

Sherwood has won 6 games in the PL. Not 9.

Why have you included cup results for Sherwood, but not for the others? Because it makes Sherwood's results look better? You've added 9 points to his tally from games that didn't even yield points.

Here's a true reflection.

Sherwood for Villa in the PL - 21 games, 20 points (6 wins, 2 draws, 13!!! losses) - Averaging less than a point a game with 36 points over the course of a season.

Extremely poor. 12 losses in his first 21 is awful to be honest. Win percentage of 29%. And our worst ever start to a PL season which is dreadful considering the fixtures we had.

As I said it is all games against Premier opposition forall of them I have included cup results for the othets.

Please don't tell I'm a liar. 

[gharperr]

dont include cup results. The reason people want him sacked is because of the point tally in the prem. Literally nothing to do with cups so its pointless including it. its misleading (converting cupwins to points is silly as previously mentioned)

Edited October 5, 2015 by gharperr

[terrytini]

 I'm sure you'll find he knows Grealish is a more offensive option than Lescott, for example....the idea that some fans have that these guys are clueless is silly.

Agreed - if there wasn't more to it.

I actually think that there is a myth behind football management being some sort of specialist talent.

Sure, if I was to be dropped into premier league management I'd fall short, due to tactical awareness, contacts and just all round experience within the game at that level.

However....

I bet I could build a team spirit.

I bet I could communicate effectively

I bet I could demostrate  what I wanted to see

I bet I could motivate the players

I bet i would have the players respect

 

The fundamentals of it all is really not rocket science. And every single thing above I have experience of it in abundance, working with folk a lot more challenging than premier league footballers.

Now I'm not for one minute suggesting that I would make a successful premier league manager, but I'm not sure we've had a manager recently who has possessed all of those skills. 

Add to that the fact they haven't seem to have been tactically aware either and yoi start to see why we're in big big trouble.

You sum it up perfectly. The " I could do that" view of the modern fan. What on earth makes you think you would command respect etc.....your views on here suggest to me that you wouldn't get mine for starters !!

You could do all thosethingsgs but our last 2, 3, 4 ?? Managers can't ? Wow.

I bet you wouldn't, and that's the whole point.....its no different to saying you could be an electrician or a lawyer or a chef. Knowing the ingredients doesn't mean you will cook decent food. If you can do all those things how come you aren't on a couple of million.

However I do agree it isn't rocket science....they can see what we can and vice versa. That's why suggesting he is clueless is so silly.

[Thevillanofoz]

For me Ithink he has to go.

First off if your set up is confused and the players can't understand it, at the very least you can't blame them for it. You saw it for Stoke'soal - that error came from a communication error from a back line which has suddenly been fiddled with and a new player slotted in (is Clark injured btw?) If you repeatedly blame the players in this scenario you lose the dressing room, plain and simple. I'm sure a fair few of the squad are a bit pissed off.

Secondly I always get the sense he's trying to play last week's game again, rather than adapting to different opposition. Wingback a away against the bin dippers - maybe worth a go - at home against Stoke? No

Thirdly - endless chopping and changing on the pitch isn't going to work - especially not with so many new faces. it's like he's desperate to shake off the 4,4 2 tag he had at the beginning of his tenure here. 

Anyway, I don't have anything against the bloke, but he's obviously out of his depth, from the way he lacks foresight when dealing with the media to the formations on the pitch - he needs to learn to manage first and the AV job is not the place for that

 

[terrytini]

Sorry Woodytom I hadn't noticed it was you !!

Now I'm even more certain you couldn't do the things you say....I can think of few people I've read on here that in my view would struggle more !!

Not pop, just res

Landing to your own point.

[Arj Guy]

He didn't do well at Spurs.

Spurs fans hated him for exactly the same reasons many Villa fans don't rate him.

Tactically naivety, not knowing his best team, baffling subs etc

This. The difference being that he got away with it up to a certain extent with Spurs due to them having a far superior squad compared to us.

                                     so, you can be a poor manager as long as the teams ok?

Everytime Spurs faced a superior team they lost, often heavily. 4-0 vs Chelsea, 1-5 vs Man City, 0-1 vs Arsenal and  4-0 vs Liverpool. How many teams were superior to Spurs that year? 5 maybe 6. I won't even bother asking the same question for us this season. Sherwood is not getting away with it this time 

Edited October 5, 2015 by Arj Guy

[darrenm]

I think us and Rodgers are a perfect fit at the moment. He wouldn't get a bigger job than us and we wouldn't get a better manager than him. Really is the time to act now.