The Tim Sherwood Thread

[Stevo985]

Quite enjoying people wanting to get rid of an egotistical manager who makes baffling decisions (Sherwood) and replacing him with an egotistical manager who makes baffling decisions (Rodgers).

You're leaving out the obvious difference.

[useless]

I thought he'd have been gone by now, very disappointing. Need to act right now if we're to save our season.

Edited October 5, 2015 by useless

[bobzy]

We were never in the dropzone under Lambert.  His football may have been dour at the end and people disliked him for their own reasons, but he wasn't as bad as people's perceptions of him and he got better results for Villa with worse players on a tougher remit.

 

 

I think when he was sacked we were in the bottom three. His results over his last 21 league games were diabolical – 12 points and in those 21 games 8 goals scored and runs of 6 league defeats on the spin and 5 league defeats on the spin.

I genuinely have some sympathy for Lambert. He had a decent net spend but it counted for little as he had to reduce the wage bill which had a massive impact on the standard of lpayer he was able to bring in.

Again I have similar sympathy for Sherwood. It gets spouted on here that he has spent 45 mill+ but is rarely mentioned he recouped most of that in sales and with that 45 mill had to replace the 4 best players he inherited in Vlaar, Delph, Cleverley and Benteke. Had we have kept those players given we finished 17^th with them I’d argue to give the manager a fighting chance he would have needed 15-20 mill to spend. Like Lambert under Sherwood the wage bill has reduced over the summer.

I said yesterday the problems at this club run way deeper than the manager. That is not to say that McLeish, Lambert and Sherwood haven’t/aren't doing poor jobs. I do though fail to see how any manager under the financial restraints of the last 4 seasons would have had us as anything more than lower third of the table fodder.

 

You keep spouting the same thing about net spend - it's not relevant.  The same way it wasn't under Lambert.

Further, Vlaar and Cleverley (in particular) were lambasted by fans through Lambert's reign and certainly weren't in the "4 best players at the club".  They needed replacing, but only for squad purposes.

Having £50m to spend on a squad isn't being that restricted.  I think Sherwood has bought pretty well and I think the players will (on the most part) come good once they're completely adjusted to the Premier League.  However, he isn't some poor old soul with that spend. Benteke's sale price was over-inflated in any case.

[bobzy]

Quite enjoying people wanting to get rid of an egotistical manager who makes baffling decisions (Sherwood) and replacing him with an egotistical manager who makes baffling decisions (Rodgers).

You're leaving out the obvious difference.

Rodgers is Northern Irish but Sherwood is English?

[SikhInTrinity]

We were never in the dropzone under Lambert.  His football may have been dour at the end and people disliked him for their own reasons, but he wasn't as bad as people's perceptions of him and he got better results for Villa with worse players on a tougher remit.

 

 

I think when he was sacked we were in the bottom three. His results over his last 21 league games were diabolical – 12 points and in those 21 games 8 goals scored and runs of 6 league defeats on the spin and 5 league defeats on the spin.

I genuinely have some sympathy for Lambert. He had a decent net spend but it counted for little as he had to reduce the wage bill which had a massive impact on the standard of lpayer he was able to bring in.

Again I have similar sympathy for Sherwood. It gets spouted on here that he has spent 45 mill+ but is rarely mentioned he recouped most of that in sales and with that 45 mill had to replace the 4 best players he inherited in Vlaar, Delph, Cleverley and Benteke. Had we have kept those players given we finished 17^th with them I’d argue to give the manager a fighting chance he would have needed 15-20 mill to spend. Like Lambert under Sherwood the wage bill has reduced over the summer.

I said yesterday the problems at this club run way deeper than the manager. That is not to say that McLeish, Lambert and Sherwood haven’t/aren't doing poor jobs. I do though fail to see how any manager under the financial restraints of the last 4 seasons would have had us as anything more than lower third of the table fodder.

 

You keep spouting the same thing about net spend - it's not relevant.  The same way it wasn't under Lambert.

Further, Vlaar and Cleverley (in particular) were lambasted by fans through Lambert's reign and certainly weren't in the "4 best players at the club".  They needed replacing, but only for squad purposes.

Having £50m to spend on a squad isn't being that restricted.  I think Sherwood has bought pretty well and I think the players will (on the most part) come good once they're completely adjusted to the Premier League.  However, he isn't some poor old soul with that spend. Benteke's sale price was over-inflated in any case.

Disagree about Vlaar and Cleverely, especially since they featured quite heavily in our squad, so they needed replacing with better quality.

[Danishlad]

I can't believe Sherwood doesn't know his best team. 

You bought the players Tim, you must have known how they should fit together.

I mean he sold Weimann, who played every match and bought Ayew who doesn't play much- is he better than Weimann?

If he is then play him. 

The longer you tinker, the more matches we lose. Imo.

 

[useless]

He's said today that he's going to keep changing the team until he stumbles upon a winning formula. People have called him a 'chancer', it's almost like he's admitting it himself now.

[a m ole]

In the poll the Trent started, 20% think he should not be sacked. I'm really quite surprised its that high to be honest, certainly shows that the fanbase is not totally united in wanting him out.

# I appreciate the poll doesn'tcover or come close to covering the whole fanbase.

It's probably a case of those who want change will always be the ones posting. For one, I agree with most the criticism of Sherwood - primarily those relating to his team selections considering our opposition and failure to respond to what's happening on the pitch quickly enough, I'm less concerned by interviews and bravado that I perversely still quite enjoy - but I think it's such a risk changing the manager now for someone we still have no idea would be an improvement, even if the momentum is looking like its swinging that way. I guess from some people's perspective the scales don't look quite as tipped that way, yet.

 

I also think it's very easy to say that Allardyce could come in, or whoever else, and turn things around and make things OK for now, but there is absolutely no guarantee of that. Are we forgetting his stint at Newcastle? I think that is a far more familiar situation to us right now than his work at over achieving clubs he got promoted.

Put it this way, if I was in charge I wouldn't sack Sherwood right now, but if he was gone tonight I wouldn't be at all cut up about it. In general I feel quite deflated as I don't really envisage a situation where it gets considerably better. It's exactly how I was a month or so before Lambert got sacked, everyone was calling for his head and desperate to get a new manager in that would be instantly better just because he wasn't Lambert, but I still felt there was a chance to recover and the other options wouldn't have made a difference. Then, After the Hull game, those scales tipped for me and thankfully Fox made the right decision. Maybe another month from now the same will happen with Sherwood.

Then we'll hire the next man who starts well, stutters and we'll be sat in 17th place again, thinking about who else will save Aston Villa.

[AstonMartyn88]

Klinsmann?

[BOF]

No I tell a lie.  I've looked at Lambert's first season 12/13 and around mid-season we were regularly dipping in and out of it.  In his second season we were never in the dropzone.

Edited October 5, 2015 by BOF

[BigJim]

That old 'players aren't fit enough' chestnut is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Spot on. It only works when you first come into a club, Not after a preseason.

This fitness thing worries me a bit. Didn’t Tim say he was pushing the lads to play at flat out match tempo during training sessions? Like it was an idea of his that no other manager uses. Are the players too knackered from over-training??

And then we remember he wouldn’t rest anybody before the cup final: players couldn’t keep up the tempo that day, no doubt about it.

Fitness can mask deficiencies in other areas:  11 superfit players can make life difficult for more talented opposition. Maybe that’s what he’s aiming at, because he doesn’t know how to organize them properly to play football?

 

 

[Villanun]

I said yesterday the problems at this club run way deeper than the manager. That is not to say that McLeish, Lambert and Sherwood haven’t/aren't doing poor jobs. I do though fail to see how any manager under the financial restraints of the last 4 seasons would have had us as anything more than lower third of the table fodder.

I agree about the problems at the club. But the problems on the pitch are, predominantly, down to the manager. You could argue that Sherwood hasn't been given a lot of funding, but can you argue that he's doing enough with the players he has bought? At the moment we're in the relegation zone with some of the biggest clubs in the country to come. Can you see us getting even as high as thirteenth?

Edited October 5, 2015 by Villanun

[foreveryoung]

He's said today that he's going to keep changing the team until he stumbles upon a winning formula. People have called him a 'chancer', it's almost like he's admitting it himself now.

such a poor quote this is. Amateur at best. He has a pre season and 8+ games to get that squad winning games. It dont generally take a manager too long to identify his best team, i.e Pardew, Raneri, Flores, Bilic to name a few. But then I suppose they are experienced managers who had a plan, comes with experience you know....

[markavfc40]

 

You keep spouting the same thing about net spend - it's not relevant.  The same way it wasn't under Lambert.

Further, Vlaar and Cleverley (in particular) were lambasted by fans through Lambert's reign and certainly weren't in the "4 best players at the club".  They needed replacing, but only for squad purposes.

Having £50m to spend on a squad isn't being that restricted.  I think Sherwood has bought pretty well and I think the players will (on the most part) come good once they're completely adjusted to the Premier League.  However, he isn't some poor old soul with that spend. Benteke's sale price was over-inflated in any case.

 

In todays market Benteke was /is a 30 million pound striker. A guy who when fit will get you 20 goals a season. To replace him would have needed us to spend that amount otherwise Liverpool could have gone elsewhere and the likes of Everton wouldn't have paid 28 mill for Lukaku. Now of course it could be said we got Benteke for 7 mill but those are once in a blue moon signings and if it was that simple every club would do it.

Similarly we got 8 mill for Delph but it is not unreasonable to suggest he was worth twice that and to replace like for like quality would have cost 16 mill. That could have been our whole transfer budget replacing the two best players he inherited. Two best players in a team that finished 17th. That is before you replace Vlaar and Cleverley and look to improve on a squad you inherited that just avoided relegation.

There is plenty to criticize Sherwood for but I actually think given what he had to spend, who he had to replace and still improve on a squad that finished 17th, whilst reducing the wage bill, he did well in the transfer window. His failing, after 8 league games, is in not yet getting anything like the best out of those players.

Edited October 5, 2015 by markavfc40

[SikhInTrinity]

No I tell a lie.  I've looked at Lambert's first season 12/13 and around mid-season we were regularly dipping in and out of it.  In his second season we were never in the dropzone.

Did think that first season we were in and out, this season is very similar to that one, we had 5points after 8 games If i remember correctly. Then we had the worst period over Xmas, and the same issues of finding the right team, think it was only that second half against Newcastle where Lambert finally found his best team.

[useless]

He's said today that he's going to keep changing the team until he stumbles upon a winning formula. People have called him a 'chancer', it's almost like he's admitting it himself now.

such a poor quote this is. Amateur at best. He has a pre season and 8+ games to get that squad winning games. It dont generally take a manager too long to identify his best team, i.e Pardew, Raneri, Flores, Bilic to name a few. But then I suppose they are experienced managers who had a plan, comes with experience you know....

To be fair it wasn't his exact quote but what he said basically equates to it. He's also using the excuse that he's still learning.

[bobzy]

He's said today that he's going to keep changing the team until he stumbles upon a winning formula. People have called him a 'chancer', it's almost like he's admitting it himself now.

such a poor quote this is. Amateur at best. He has a pre season and 8+ games to get that squad winning games. It dont generally take a manager too long to identify his best team, i.e Pardew, Raneri, Flores, Bilic to name a few. But then I suppose they are experienced managers who had a plan, comes with experience you know....

To be fair it wasn't his exact quote but what he said basically equates to it. He's also using the excuse that he's still learning.

I don't see anything he's said that's wrong here?

He's going to change the team until he finds a successful mix - good!

He's still learning - I'd hope so, it's only his second job!

[AntrimBlack]

What seems remarkable to me, and, I would think, unprecedented, is how rapidly 80% want him out. It is just so early in the season. I think that what posters are seeing is a manager with a decent squad, in my opinion of course, who is making errors and not learning from them, and therefore will be unable to turn things around.

[Grasshopper]

Do we get 75mill from the TV deal at the end of this season?

it would be worth up to half of that to pay out as clmpensation for sacked managers.

if the "random choice" policy still goes then lets have at least 2 more punts at it

one now

if its still not working

one more in January

if our destiny under Lerner is to go down, then lets have a good go at it before we do go down, and lets get it over and done with.

the sooner the better

Like a bullet to the head rather than slowly bleeding to death.

 

[Villanun]

He's said today that he's going to keep changing the team until he stumbles upon a winning formula. People have called him a 'chancer', it's almost like he's admitting it himself now.

such a poor quote this is. Amateur at best. He has a pre season and 8+ games to get that squad winning games. It dont generally take a manager too long to identify his best team, i.e Pardew, Raneri, Flores, Bilic to name a few. But then I suppose they are experienced managers who had a plan, comes with experience you know....

To be fair it wasn't his exact quote but what he said basically equates to it. He's also using the excuse that he's still learning.

I don't see anything he's said that's wrong here?

He's going to change the team until he finds a successful mix - good!

He's still learning - I'd hope so, it's only his second job!

 So the question is, should an inexperienced manager be learning his trade at a struggling club in the nation's top league, where the pressures are highest and the penalties for failure increasingly large?