The Tim Sherwood Thread

[Richard]

Lambert worked under a lot harder circumstances than Sherwood has worked under,

 and has to buy 12 new players over the summer, most of whom have never played in the league before

Had to do that?

[bobzy]

Lambert worked under a lot harder circumstances than Sherwood has worked under,

 and has to buy 12 new players over the summer, most of whom have never played in the league before

Had to do that?

Given the amount of players that have left, I think "had to" is correct, yes.

[AntrimBlack]

I can look back over the years to many managers with respect, gratitude, admiration. Lambert will not be one of them. Consign him to history. He will be one of the forgotten ones.

[Richard]

Lambert worked under a lot harder circumstances than Sherwood has worked under,

 and has to buy 12 new players over the summer, most of whom have never played in the league before

Had to do that?

Given the amount of players that have left, I think "had to" is correct, yes.

Most of whom have never played in the league before was a choice not an imposed ie "had to" act

Releasing as many players as he did and recruiting as many as he did,  in the positions he did,  was a choice not an imposed ie "had to " act

[bobzy]

Lambert worked under a lot harder circumstances than Sherwood has worked under,

 and has to buy 12 new players over the summer, most of whom have never played in the league before

Had to do that?

Given the amount of players that have left, I think "had to" is correct, yes.

Most of whom have never played in the league before was a choice not an imposed ie "had to" act

Releasing as many players as he did and recruiting as many as he did,  in the positions he did,  was a choice not an imposed ie "had to " act

I disagree.  The players that moved on simply weren't good enough (Benteke and Delph aside) and needed to be replaced.

You cannot replace that many players from the Premier League player pool because it'd cost far too much.

[Woodytom]

This is all a bit pointless now, but to deny he never kept us up against the odds is ridiculous.  We were completely in the mire - remember Hull, Stoke, Newcastle!  We were odds on to go down with the bookies and according to most fans. He came in and we won 5 of our last 11, including must win games against Tottenham, Everton and West Ham.  That’s a win ratio of 45% which is not meek or turgid in my book.  Without him we were down.

 

At some points we were odds on but not always and not massively. In fact I'm not sure we were ever a point adrift.

 

Against all odds is when there is literally no hope whatsoever. Like Leicester. 

 

[darrenm]

On another note, Sherwood continues to concern me. Since the 'bounce' that followed his arrival faded we've been utter tripe.

This is the key.

 

He did the job he was brought in to do. And he did it very well, imo.

But that job's over now. The new job is to move us forward and it's a whole other kettle of fish.

I'm still not convinced he did any better than Lambert would have done. Sherwood coming in coincided with Benteke coming back from injury and picking up some form. Benteke pretty much saved us single handedly from relegation last season. Lambert has since said the same, but of course he would.

[jackbauer24]

Thanking Sherwood for keeping us up is just and right. I don't think many could really argue he deserves plaudits for that. However, there is an argument to say that ANY change of manager at that point would have had a similar reaction as we just needed a fresh start and some positivity. It's history now, but I still maintain that despite making many mistakes, Lambert had the toughest hand of any manager over the last decade at least!

As for Sherwood there are still BIG questions. the Southampton defeat was awful and the FA Cup embarrassing and now he's made the decision to change the whole squad - it's his team and we are arguably worse than last season (in comparison to games he was in charge for). With our fixtures so far this season we should have a lot more points, regardless of how we are playing - we should be scraping draws and wins from these kinds of games if we're not a relegation candidate. The settling in period may explain the odd performance or inconsistency or getting destroyed by a top team but it doesn't excuse lack of effort, lack of bottle and the really weird substitutions. 11 world class players in a new team might not hit their stride for 10-20 matches but they'd still be showing enough quality to get easy points against poor teams. We aren't, we aren't showing any team quality. All we have shown is a few stand out youngsters playing for themselves (Grealish, Gil and Traore).

I don't particularly rate our departed players but a few of them would be doing better than what we've got! It's also telling that Sherwood isn't even playing a lot of the newbies which makes you question if he's realised already that either he, or whoever advised him, made a huge mistake. His hit rate so far is pretty bad.

Goalkeepers - not much change other than Guzan knows they tried to replace him but couldn't and Bunn isn't quite as good as Given.

Defenders - Lescott and Richards aren't showing much more than Clark and Okore yet, they just are a lot older can take better selfies and increase the 'banter' level in the dressing room. Amavi has been POTS so far, despite the one mistake and looks a great improvement. the Hutton/Bacuna area hasn't been addressed at all.

Midfield -  largely the same as last year, none of his signings playing apart from the unfortunately crocked Gueye who's looked good. Playing Gil and Sinclair who were Lambert buys and Grealish who too was already here. Traore looks promising but young and inexperienced.

Strikers - well it's embarrassing so far! Benteke was theoretically being replaced by two strikers and yet they've so far shown they're not even as good as the departed Bent and Weimann! And what's happened to the only striker who was scoring in pre-season in Kozak?

So Sherwood has a LONG way to go to prove he is a manager. And there's only one way to do that. Points, not even performances, points.

[Isa]

I get the impression that some are reluctant to give Sherwood any sort of credit for last season as they feel it will somehow compromise their predisposed stance against him but really, it wouldn't. Because being able to generate that new manager bounce/syndrome/impact (whatever you want to call it) isn't a real indicator of substantial managerial ability as countless previous examples can attest to.

 

Nonetheless, if one considers the context, then I wouldn't wholly agree with the suggested argument above that any change would've achieved the upturn to achieve safety. Just remember the performance at Hull, which amply epitomised the insipidity which had sucked the players into the abyss, mentally at least. I wouldn't say that purely a change of manager in itself was going to be enough. 

 

As I said when he was appointed, Sherwood seemed on the face of it like a suitable appointment to address the short-term problem as he possessed the ideal character to break the malaise and inject some much needed buoyancy into the squad. The 180° contrast in approach to games to the mind-numbing play-not-to-lose stuff that had become the default under Lambert also important. And so it proved.

 

So I for one will always be eternally grateful to him for maintaining our top-flight status last season but at the same time, I accept it has no bearing on his capacity to progress the club beyond that.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Isa

[HanoiVillan]

You got a like both for the argument (which I agree with) and for the use of 'insipidity'.

[Dodgyknees]

Lambert worked under a lot harder circumstances than Sherwood has worked under,

 and has to buy 12 new players over the summer, most of whom have never played in the league before

Had to do that?

Yes. We had to try something to stop our relegation battles. Can't fault Tim on transfers.

[sexbelowsound]

Lambert worked under a lot harder circumstances than Sherwood has worked under, and there is not a big difference on the pitch, at least Lambert had a proven history as a manager, Tim has shown nothing in his career to prove he is the right one. Results and performances must improve quickly (And when I say quickly, I mean tomorrow included), or I will join the Sherwood out bandwagon. 

Disagree with that. Sherwood has had a lucky bounce in that he is coming in at a time where the wages seemed to have balanced themselves out however he has had to strengthen the squad significantly and has only been given a few million to do so. Yes we spent a lot but that money came from selling our best player and only goalscorer as well our captain. If we were sitting here and Sherwood had spent say £20 million on top of what we recouped then it would be a different story potentially.

Don't get me wrong, Lambert had it really tough but Sherwood is facing difficult, and equally challenging circumstances IMO.

[villan501]

I dont feel anything for sherwood bar anger he has had money and spunked 12mil on ayew he is terrible he will never do it in a villa shirt. Tim sherwood persists with the continious mis firing gabby put sinclair up there i dont think tim knows what to do lets hope january were not too far adrift.

 

Tim this is our year to go down thanks for bot getting that goal scorer we dedperately need. Why have grealish gil and traore and nobody to put it in net.

 

Your clueless your outta your depth and this situation is on you 100%.

[tinker]

Needs more time, made mistakes and will probably make some more but a couple of bad results or good is no indication of how its going to turn out.

[sexbelowsound]

Why can people not at least spell check their posts before they press post? 

[villan501]

Ive got fat fingers.

[PongRiddims]

Sherwood out

[Richard]

Lambert worked under a lot harder circumstances than Sherwood has worked under,

 and has to buy 12 new players over the summer, most of whom have never played in the league before

Had to do that?

Yes. We had to try something to stop our relegation battles. Can't fault Tim on transfers.

apart from the fact it doesnt seem to be working so either he's at fault for buying tripe players (which I do not believe by the way) or he's at fault for not getting them to play very well

[Dodgyknees]

Lambert worked under a lot harder circumstances than Sherwood has worked under,

 and has to buy 12 new players over the summer, most of whom have never played in the league before

Had to do that?

Yes. We had to try something to stop our relegation battles. Can't fault Tim on transfers.

apart from the fact it doesnt seem to be working so either he's at fault for buying tripe players (which I do not believe by the way) or he's at fault for not getting them to play very well

I think it's too early to say, but I do think they are quality players.

[markavfc40]

 

apart from the fact it doesnt seem to be working so either he's at fault for buying tripe players (which I do not believe by the way) or he's at fault for not getting them to play very well

 

 

I agree I don't think he has purchased poor players. I think given what he had to spend and given how many players were needed then he has done very well.  This is all taken in the context of course that it is very early to be judging any new signing and especially those new to this this country/league.

I don't however think that believing he has signed some good players means that I should now be jumping on his back for failing to get the team to perform. We are 6 league games into the season and I always believed it would take some time for the new players to settle in, for them to gel as a team and for Sherwood to discover his best 11. I actually doubt he has put what is likely to be his best 11 on the pitch yet. Lescott came in late and Traore, Gana, Gil and Grealish have all been out injured at some point.

I am as disappointed as any supporter by our start to the season. I don't however think we are a million miles away from things starting to click. I had relatively high hopes for this season, certainly in comparison to the last 4 we have endured, and believed that come next March/April that we would be comfortably clear of the drop zone and I still believe that. I also knew that it would likely be a bumpy ride.

I said after the Leicester game that we as supporters would need to show a fair bit of patience whilst the new players, and coaching staff for that matter, all settled in and the manager discovered his best team and that patience as obviously been further tested with a derby defeat but I still don't think it is even close to the time we should be getting on the managers back.  Sherwood is still wet behind the ears and a little naive in many ways, not surprising given his limited experience, but I think whilst acknowledging that he certainly has his faults he needs to be given a fair crack of the whip and six games into a new season, with a dozen new players to integrate into the squad and still to discover his best 11, is not even close to being given a fair crack of it.

Edited September 21, 2015 by markavfc40