birdistheword Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Let's not kid ourselves... We should have been relegated last season and Tim "saved" us. The main problem is we are no longer a footballing powerhouse, we have become a lower Premier League side in the last few seasons. The sooner the fans realise that the better. We have no divine right to be challenging for Europe because we 'were good once'. Times have changed and until we get a change of ownership it will continue. Aside from a good couple of seasons in the 80s, we've not been a footballing powerhouse in a **** century. Yet many fans think we are and have the right to be. I disagree, I think that's a criticism blue noses and baggies fans always use against us, the reality is the majority of fans think we have the right to not be **** shitThe same fans who want Sherwood gone because we are playing poorly? We have a league position of where we are as a club right now and if we finish the season there most will be content. Yes we want to finish higher, but our aim is staying in the league. A sad state of affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdistheword Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Works both ways Key difference is that fans pay to watch. While the staff and players are paid precisely to produce semi-competent performances at least. The pay argument is zzzzzzzz. There's no way you could reasonably argue that the players aren't giving 100%. It's a confidence thing. They can only do their best, but their best is limited if they aren't supported. Fans pay to "support" their team, why not give yourself the maximum experience on and off the pitch by getting involved in singing and giving the players your back?Hate the argument that we have the right to moan because we pay to watch it. If you buy a bad film on Blu-Ray do you write a letter to the director saying how bad it was? If you're shopping at the supermarket do you suddenly demand to see the profit margins etc. because you're a paying customer? Why should football be any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I don't think he thinks he is a tactical genius.I think he thinks attacking football will, over a season, bring us a much better points tally than tight football. And I do.It isn't working yet, but I would hate to see him revert to a Pulis type way of playing football, and I think we would do worse, over the season, if he did.For the large part though, we're not playing attacking football. It's just the same old rubbish we've been playing for half a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I could understand it being called hyperbole if we weren't dealing with facts.Some is facts, some isn't.But even factss need perspective, and context. Frankly I see little of either.Let me aso a hypothetical question which I touched on in my previous post.People who thinkwe should have beaten Leicester and won yesterday. That would put us 4th. Do you really think that is a realistic expectation ?I don't understand the hypothetical question. Are you asking if I think 4th is a reasonable place for us to finish this season? Or if it's a reasonable place to be in after 6 games? The league table isn't important right now. The fact that we're outside the relegation zone isn't important. What is important, is results. We've gained one point from matches against Palace, Sunderland, Leicester and WBA, all sides that will finish in the bottom half of the table (well, Palace might sneak top 10). We now have a run of games against the Sky 7 interspersed with fixtures we always do badly in (Swansea and Stoke at Villa Park). That's the source of concern, not where we are in the league table, which really doesn't matter until late October, November. I take your point my hypothetical wasnt clear, sorry.What Iwas getting at is that over the season, looking at the 'where finish' thread, where a lot said 11 th- 16 th overall, thatd be about 1.2 points per game, so after 6 games that'd be about 7 points.People are unhappy with our results which as you rightly say are what matters. Yet had we won the Leicester game wed be on that target ( and pretty much everybody thinks we should have won it). Had we won that AND yesterday, wed be as far ahead in that target as we are currently behind. Yet surely nobody thinks we are a side which is good enough to have got 10 from 6 games ?So whatwhat I'm saying is we are only slightly off what even the most hopeful fan could reasonably have expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Works both ways Key difference is that fans pay to watch. While the staff and players are paid precisely to produce semi-competent performances at least. The pay argument is zzzzzzzz. There's no way you could reasonably argue that the players aren't giving 100%. It's a confidence thing. They can only do their best, but their best is limited if they aren't supported. Fans pay to "support" their team, why not give yourself the maximum experience on and off the pitch by getting involved in singing and giving the players your back?Its hard to carry on singing when you are 2-0 down to a shite team, with no incline that we are gonna score a goal. The fans can feel the negativity as well as the players. If I can see players going in hard and winning the tackle, when we are losing, this will incite a loud VP. I know this is true because I have witnessed it. If the players give up, the fans give up. Example at Leicester, its hard to sing an be loud when 75% of the fans can see whats coming. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 e pay argument is zzzzzzzz. There's no way you could reasonably argue that the players aren't giving 100%. It's a confidence thing. They can only do their best, but their best is limited if they aren't supported. Fans pay to "support" their team, why not give yourself the maximum experience on and off the pitch by getting involved in singing and giving the players your back? Sure, not saying the fans can't help but the "works both ways" mantra implies they somehow share some responsibility for what transpires on the pitch - which is rubbish. Ultimately, tripe on the pitch makes for a subdued stadium. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arj Guy Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Let's not kid ourselves... We should have been relegated last season and Tim "saved" us. The main problem is we are no longer a footballing powerhouse, we have become a lower Premier League side in the last few seasons. The sooner the fans realise that the better. We have no divine right to be challenging for Europe because we 'were good once'. Times have changed and until we get a change of ownership it will continue.Aside from a good couple of seasons in the 80s, we've not been a footballing powerhouse in a **** century.Yet many fans think we are and have the right to be.That's a load of shite mate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Thomas Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Like the discussion about our home support so created its own thread - called Aston Villa Home Support' for anyone interested.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 On another note, Sherwood continues to concern me. Since the 'bounce' that followed his arrival faded we've been utter tripe. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 20, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted September 20, 2015 On another note, Sherwood continues to concern me. Since the 'bounce' that followed his arrival faded we've been utter tripe.This is the key. He did the job he was brought in to do. And he did it very well, imo.But that job's over now. The new job is to move us forward and it's a whole other kettle of fish. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvilla28 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 The thing that concerns me is we look so poorly organised back 4 is a mess bad.Kozak is getting blocked out for no reason and persists with players who let him down.I don't care about net spend he spend 50mill and should be doing a lot better just look at Norwich,Watford,Foxes etc a lot better teams more passion and fight and organised spend very little.No more exuses for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 The thing that concerns me is we look so poorly organised back 4 is a mess bad.Kozak is getting blocked out for no reason and persists with players who let him down.I don't care about net spend he spend 50mill and should be doing a lot better just look at Norwich,Watford,Foxes etc a lot better teams more passion and fight and organised spend very little.No more exuses for him.You should care, and your post highlights that you don't understand how it is holding us back, and those clubs you mention have more financial clout than us because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG_Villa_Fan Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) I like Sherwood, I want him to succeed here. But I'd love to see one game after which I'd think he's done better than the opposition manager. I understand he's young, learning and all that, but he can't afford to be constantly outperformed, we don't have players good enough to allow him to be taught lessons each week without hurting the team. That said, I wouldn't want him out. Not like there are some great managers available and besides us Villa fans don't seem to know what a good manager is. We certainly know what a bad one is though and this season Sherwood's looked dangerously alike Lambert. Edited September 21, 2015 by BG_Villa_Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 How many more games do we give him ?Weve had a run of easy fixtures and done pretty poorly IMO.5 more games ? - or do we waiting longer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 McLeish got a whole season and Lambert got nearly 3. Talk of sacking Sherwood after the first 7 games of a season and after hes made huge changes to the squad and backroom staff is just daft. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG_Villa_Fan Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) ^ You're correct of course. And yet, with hindsight, do you think sacking McLeish and Lambert earlier would have been better for the club? Edited September 21, 2015 by BG_Villa_Fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnski Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Give him until the halfway point of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 2 months - if we dont look any nearer to being a team then he must go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Christmas is about fair, if we're in the drop zone by the end of December he should go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanO Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Sherwood is no better than Lambert, both did their job and kept us up. Neither have the talent to do so while entertaining the VP faithful.From what I've seen so far we are bottom 3 material, very poor.We have a defence that can't keep a clean sheet, a midfield that struggles to defend or attack with a forward line that is no better than Championship standard.I wonder if Liverpool would consider loaning us Benteke in January so he can once again keep us up? (Yes I'm joking)I'm down about this shit atm, sack Sherwood and replace him with a Pulis style manger and I give up, I have no answers as how to fix this mess of a club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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