The Tim Sherwood Thread

[LakotaDakota]

Thought that it was a terrible appointment at the time but i like the guy and he is obviously trying to do something a bit different than we have been used to. Sure he'll make mistakes and we are still in need of a few more players but our squad on paper looks an awful lot stronger than it has for years meaning that we actually have some subs capable of making a difference to a game for a change.

 

The one thing that can't be argued with is results, Since he took over we have already won more games than we did in the entire 13/14 & 14/15 seasons combined under lambert

 

People also mock the win % record a little but facts speak for themselves. The only managers with a higher win percentage than him in premier league history (that have managed 30 games or more) have all managed either Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd, Man City or Liverpool, He has managed his 50% with spurs & us...

Edited August 27, 2015 by LakotaDakota

[Texas_Mike]

 

A manager should know what formations he favours against different clubs. He should then only purchase players he has had extensively scouted, that he knows can play in those formations. 

Purchasing players and then having to spend time finding out where and how they can play in different formations, smells like rank amateurism to me.

 

Do you realize how many supposedly great managers experiment with formations and players in different positions? You obviously have a gripe with TS so I suspect nothing will please you.

[gharperr]

Im confused why he thinks sherwood doesnt know what players can play in what formation? who hasnt played in their natural position? (only sanchez that i can remember, and that was a cup game at cb where theres a pretty logical connection between the two positions). Hes not exactly playing gana left wing, CM then striker to see what position he might be best in.

btw, The length of time you been a supporter doesnt give you any more right to criticise than a SHA fan.

Edited August 27, 2015 by gharperr

[CrackpotForeigner]

Question for those criticising Sherwood: Aren't you utterly sick of criticising Villa managers by now? You know Ron Saunders isn't coming back no matter what, right?

[Stevo985]

On the tactics Tim thing, I think it's clear he has some big tactical blind spots. The Southampton game last season and the Cup FInal stand out as obvious examples.

 

But as long as he learns from those, which I certainly think he is doing or is capable of then I'm ok. We'll win more games than we have before with his style of management.

 

I think any weaknesses so far this season are a result of the team being so new. If we're struggling in 10 games time then the criticicism may be valid.

 

Those criticising the cup game as some sort of tactical ineptitude are crazy, imo. It wasn't.

[1958Villan]

I think we can take the insult back and re-purpose it. He changed the game against Bournemouth with his substitutions so that's a start

 

 

As one who has called Mr Sherwood tactically inept and has suggested, without using the words, that he has been clueless, with the personnel used in the formations he has used. I have also condemned his apparent slowness to recognise when things are not working and in changing them.

To those who say it is too early to criticise, I say no it isn't.

When you see something so blatantly wrong in one line-up and the exact same line-up is used in the following match, that would suggest to me at least, that the one in charge of picking the personnel for that formation, is either too stubborn to admit, even to themselves, that they are capable of making an error in judgement, or just not too quick in recognising when things aren't quite right.

Quite like thinking Agbonlahor is a footballer, or Westwood shits solid gold bricks.

 

I have been a supporter since, as my site name would suggest, 1958. That is for 57 years and I think that that amount of time following this club, gives me the right to criticise when I see something wrong, especially when the same mistakes are being repeated.

As for those who say the manager needs time to work out where a player plays best, I say, rubbish.

A manager should know what formations he favours against different clubs. He should then only purchase players he has had extensively scouted, that he knows can play in those formations. 

Purchasing players and then having to spend time finding out where and how they can play in different formations, smells like rank amateurism to me.

Now I am more than willing to give Mr Sherwood time but, I would like to see a little proof that he is learning.

One way of showing that proof of learning, would be in not making obvious errors consistently.

 

Pretty longwinded way of saying 'I've been a fan for years and years so clearly I know what is right and wrong' to be honest. You clearly think you know better than the manager and so base your opinions on that.

 

Not at all Stefan, I base my opinions on watching what actually happens on the field of play and a lifetime of watching football from all around the world.

I have no particular grudge against Mr Sherwood, apart from his apparent slowness in recognising when things aren't working and making alterations.

In fact, just as with every Villa manager while I've supported the club, I wish them nothing but success and yes that includes McLeish.

As for suggesting that I have said, or intimated, that I know better than anyone else, including Mr Sherwood, that's rubbish.

All I have done is say what I see that worries me.

And yes just like every other fan, I have the right to criticise, just as you have the right to praise everything, it is after all just two opposing opinions.  

[1958Villan]

Im confused why he thinks sherwood doesnt know what players can play in what formation? who hasnt played in their natural position? (only sanchez that i can remember, and that was a cup game at cb where theres a pretty logical connection between the two positions). Hes not exactly playing gana left wing, CM then striker to see what position he might be best in.

btw, The length of time you been a supporter doesnt give you any more right to criticise than a SHA fan.

I was answering something another poster had said, when I mentioned about knowing where players can and can't play effectively, in different formations.

My main gripe with Mr Sherwood's team formation and personnel choice, has been because of his insistence on using 4-3-3 for the initial two games this season, after using it almost exclusively at the end of last season.

I found it bizarre, to say the least, that he used three defensive midfielders, as our midfield in those games. As I have said, who would think that three DM's could possibly create chances for a strike-force. It's things like this that worry me.  

[StefanAVFC]

 

I think we can take the insult back and re-purpose it. He changed the game against Bournemouth with his substitutions so that's a start

 

 

As one who has called Mr Sherwood tactically inept and has suggested, without using the words, that he has been clueless, with the personnel used in the formations he has used. I have also condemned his apparent slowness to recognise when things are not working and in changing them.

To those who say it is too early to criticise, I say no it isn't.

When you see something so blatantly wrong in one line-up and the exact same line-up is used in the following match, that would suggest to me at least, that the one in charge of picking the personnel for that formation, is either too stubborn to admit, even to themselves, that they are capable of making an error in judgement, or just not too quick in recognising when things aren't quite right.

Quite like thinking Agbonlahor is a footballer, or Westwood shits solid gold bricks.

 

I have been a supporter since, as my site name would suggest, 1958. That is for 57 years and I think that that amount of time following this club, gives me the right to criticise when I see something wrong, especially when the same mistakes are being repeated.

As for those who say the manager needs time to work out where a player plays best, I say, rubbish.

A manager should know what formations he favours against different clubs. He should then only purchase players he has had extensively scouted, that he knows can play in those formations. 

Purchasing players and then having to spend time finding out where and how they can play in different formations, smells like rank amateurism to me.

Now I am more than willing to give Mr Sherwood time but, I would like to see a little proof that he is learning.

One way of showing that proof of learning, would be in not making obvious errors consistently.

 

Pretty longwinded way of saying 'I've been a fan for years and years so clearly I know what is right and wrong' to be honest. You clearly think you know better than the manager and so base your opinions on that.

 

Not at all Stefan, I base my opinions on watching what actually happens on the field of play and a lifetime of watching football from all around the world.

I have no particular grudge against Mr Sherwood, apart from his apparent slowness in recognising when things aren't working and making alterations.

In fact, just as with every Villa manager while I've supported the club, I wish them nothing but success and yes that includes McLeish.

As for suggesting that I have said, or intimated, that I know better than anyone else, including Mr Sherwood, that's rubbish.

All I have done is say what I see that worries me.

And yes just like every other fan, I have the right to criticise, just as you have the right to praise everything, it is after all just two opposing opinions.  

 

 

But you've done it again there.

 

because you've spent years watching football, your opinion is somehow more valid than others. Including Sherwood.

 

I don't praise everything. What a load of crap.

[terrytini]

Hey 1958, maybe given all he and the coaching staff have seen pre season and in training, and all the stuff they know they are looking for as regards each and very player in this new team, led them to the conclusion that they got to, and maybe, just maybe, they were at least as aware of the pros and cons of such an approach as you, despite being younger ?

And maybe just be cause their decision baffles you, doesn't mean it is in itself baffling.

Just maybe ??

[Zatman]

 

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion I think most just want explanations on how you get to those views. That's why I'm baffled how people form an opinion on a score line it's bad enough at the end of a game but during is unbelievable. If you're watching it you can judge if you're just reading a vidi printer you can say it's not good enough but you can't question how we are playing as you don't know. Imagine forming your opinion on Gregg Evans match reports in the Mail. It's just silly.

 

I formed my opinion on him after reading his reports. He is a shit journalist

 

 

Yep, I hate reading anything he writes.. so try not to now!

 

 

same here but have limited internet access at work and anytime google Aston Villa this Evans clearing in the woods turns up

[VillakevBromsgrove]

 

It is strange how people who did not go feel we were lucky but those there felt it was just a matter of time till we won. Then again I was in the top holte and two blokes nearly came to blows because the one thought the other was being negative all through the match. I have been going down the Villa for 44 years and can honestly say it was the strangest feeling I have ever had watching a game. Even though we kept going behind you just knew we could break through their defence with ease and score again.

If that was about four rows from the front of the upper I saw that happen too. It ended peacefully enough but it did get a little feisty at one point. It reminded me of some of the fans having a go (rightfully in my opinion) at other fans for jeering Richardson against qpr.

 

yes it was block 4 row 3.

[avfc1982am]

As one who has called Mr Sherwood tactically inept and has suggested, without using the words, that he has been clueless, with the personnel used in the formations he has used. I have also condemned his apparent slowness to recognise when things are not working and in changing them.

To those who say it is too early to criticise, I say no it isn't.

When you see something so blatantly wrong in one line-up and the exact same line-up is used in the following match, that would suggest to me at least, that the one in charge of picking the personnel for that formation, is either too stubborn to admit, even to themselves, that they are capable of making an error in judgement, or just not too quick in recognising when things aren't quite right.

Quite like thinking Agbonlahor is a footballer, or Westwood shits solid gold bricks.

 

I have been a supporter since, as my site name would suggest, 1958. That is for 57 years and I think that that amount of time following this club, gives me the right to criticise when I see something wrong, especially when the same mistakes are being repeated.

As for those who say the manager needs time to work out where a player plays best, I say, rubbish.

A manager should know what formations he favours against different clubs. He should then only purchase players he has had extensively scouted, that he knows can play in those formations. 

Purchasing players and then having to spend time finding out where and how they can play in different formations, smells like rank amateurism to me.

Now I am more than willing to give Mr Sherwood time but, I would like to see a little proof that he is learning.

One way of showing that proof of learning, would be in not making obvious errors consistently.

 

Sorry but after reading this post I felt the need to respond. I think most of us feel the right to criticise when necessary so let me criticise your post if that's okay as I feel it's necessary.

 

• As for those who say the manager needs time to work out where a player plays best, I say, rubbish.   Players continually grow and develop strengths and weaknesses in different areas. One example is Gareth Barry, played everywhere and was more than the CB he started out at Villa, as he developed and ended up playing DM for England. Thank the lord no one was listening to your rational on potential growth and development.
• A manager should know what formations he favours against different clubs. He should then only purchase players he has had extensively scouted, that he knows can play in those formations. How the hell as a manager are you going to make a decision on what strategy your going to set up against your opposition until you are aware of the players they will possibly line up with? Injuries, suspensions, loss of form, will all factor in the decision making process not only in your own team but your opponents.Not to mention culture changes for new players, language barriers etc. By your illogical way of thinking this will all be done in the summer before the season has started?! 
• Now I am more than willing to give Mr Sherwood time but, I would like to see a little proof that he is learning. One way of showing that proof of learning, would be in not making obvious errors consistently.  3 Games in, 1 win and 2 loses and your giving him time? You for real or are you Flavio Briatore? There is proof if you look properly. The defence is stronger and we have a better midfield than last season. 

 

 

As I and many others have also stated... There are question marks over the appointment of Sherwood, however we will spend the 2015-16 playing premier league football, something that before TS  came in didn't seem probable. It's easy as a fan to question decisions managers make regarding formations, line up, tactics and subs etc. The truth is nobody knows whether or not their own decisions would have anymore of a impact on what is about to transpire or has transpired. It's pure guess work and hypothetically based.

 

TS could have brought the most versatile players in the world worth untold millions, put them all in their favoured positions and play only to their strengths. It still does not guarantee the team will be a success in the short or long term. And the bottom line is no matter how much you research once you take a human being from their comfort zone and put them in an alien environment you don't know how they will react. We could all pick top players out that flopped for reasons most wouldn't have anticipated.

 

I think it's reasonable enough to question especially when there is a continual repetition of the same mistakes as with the last manager. We are however only 3 weeks into TS's first proper season, and after a summer of mass upheaval whereby we as a club were continually battered in the media and with our main players leaving, it hasn't actually turned out that bad at all imo. TS has brought in experience to help him, contracts are being dealt with in the right way finally and most agree that we have also brought in some fantastic young talent into the squad. Still having said that things will take time to click on the pitch as there are far too many changes to personnel for instant success and maybe next season will be the season we truly progress the way we would all like. As long as we are moving forward though that's just fine by me and after the Lambert debacle I think it's unreasonable to really expect anything more especially without a massive injection of cash.

[TRO]

Hey 1958, maybe given all he and the coaching staff have seen pre season and in training, and all the stuff they know they are looking for as regards each and very player in this new team, led them to the conclusion that they got to, and maybe, just maybe, they were at least as aware of the pros and cons of such an approach as you, despite being younger ?

And maybe just be cause their decision baffles you, doesn't mean it is in itself baffling.

Just maybe ??

 

Its an old chesnut this one Terry,

 

I once said to Graham Taylor  we base our opinions on what we see in 90 Minutes on a ( what was a Saturday Then) I said you base your opinions on what you see all week.....and he agreed.

 

but we all do see a different game that what makes the opinions all the more interesting.... we all can't see everything, no matter how good we are.....mind you my mincers ain't as quick as they used to be, so I don't lead with my mouth like I used to do in my passionate days.

 

I also do think there are some very discerning fans, who are very knowledgable about the game.....endorsed by Stuart Pearce on " Goals on Sunday" who said at one club he told the new manager you would do well to listen to the fans ...they see them every week.

 

I also think Managers are like Station Masters they have a much more broader knowledge of the trains and everything associated with them.....Fans are like trainspotters, who have no outside influences....just focus on the Trains/Engines.

[TRO]

In fairness to us older fans I think the game has changed in area's we don't always consider.

 

There is far more competition for players than there was years ago, with so many clubs all wanting the same thing and less time than ever to deal with it how you want.

 

I don't know whether Tim Sherwood will make it, to giving us some kind of success, but I believe he will.

 

I think he has a lot to learn, but I equally think he has the right personality to recognise an error and not too big to admit it and deal with it.

 

I know its a lot to ask Villa Fans  to be patient, but remember all the faults/Mishaps/Bad luck of previous managers is not Tim Sherwoods taxi meter running.....His has only just started in relative terms.

[HanoiVillan]

He does need time, and he does need patience, though they aren't infinite resources (which I'm sure he knows better than we do). If we're sat in the bottom three come Christmas-time, the tone will have changed completely. Required: lots of patience from the fans, and several good results from the team. We're in this together. 

[AshVilla]

The only way i don't see us in the bottom three come christmas is if we sign another striker and a CB

Edited August 27, 2015 by AshVilla

[AntrimBlack]

The only way i don't see us in the bottom three come christmas is if we haven't signed another striker and a CB

 

Shouldn't that be ``The only way I do see us in the bottom three''?

[AshVilla]

 

The only way i don't see us in the bottom three come christmas is if we haven't signed another striker and a CB

 

Shouldn't that be ``The only way I do see us in the bottom three''?

 

 

Good spot

[dont_do_it_doug.]

I'll bet you £250 to Acorns that we aren't in the bottom 3 regardless. Obviously the bet is void from your end if we sign a CB and a Striker.

Whatever happens, if we are in the bottom 3 at Christmas, I pay £250 to acorns. If we don't sign both and we are still not in the bottom 3, you do.

Deal?

[brommy]

The only way i don't see us in the bottom three come christmas is if we sign another striker and a CB

Then Tim should sign a CB and ST for a few grand, just to ensure.