The ISIS threat to Europe

[AshVilla]

19 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

2 separate attacks in 2 days in Nigeria for the record. both bomb attacks on markets.

The media do not care about Nigeria though

Not a big enough country to warrant getting on the front page of a western tabloid

Edited November 18, 2015 by AshVilla

[andyh]

27 minutes ago, penguin said:

Where on earth have you pulled this from? Demi has said, and rightly so IMO, that 'culture' isn't an excuse for booing a minutes silence in respect to the innocent people slaughtered. It's nothing to do with not being able to not being able to comprehend that people have different cultures.

FFS, it's obviously going over your head as well.

From the explanation given by the Turkish writer, it was explained they were not booing the silence in a way that THEY considered

offensive to the French or to decry the terrible thing that had happened in Paris.

They were demonstrating their grief/anger/displeasure/condemnation in a way that is normal in their culture.

if I went to an English restaurant and started smashing plates, I'd probably get arrested.

if I went to a Greek restaurant and did the same thing, I'd be having a celebration and people would join in.

Different cultures do and see things differently.

I know it's a crap analogy, but it's the simplest I can think of.

 

vive la difference.

[foreveryoung]

8 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

The media do not care about Nigeria though

Not a big enough country to warrant getting on the front page of a western tabloid

Most of us may have sympathy for them, but if we are brutilly honest.....................................Do we care.

[penguin]

7 minutes ago, andyh said:

FFS, it's obviously going over your head as well.

From the explanation given by the Turkish writer, it was explained they were not booing the silence in a way that THEY considered

offensive to the French or to decry the terrible thing that had happened in Paris.

They were demonstrating their grief/anger/displeasure/condemnation in a way that is normal in their culture.

if I went to an English restaurant and started smashing plates, I'd probably get arrested.

if I went to a Greek restaurant and did the same thing, I'd be having a celebration and people would join in.

Different cultures do and see things differently.

I know it's a crap analogy, but it's the simplest I can think of.

 

vive la difference.

It's not going over my head at all and those are terrible examples not even remotely comparable to respecting a minutes silence. If what they did was so 'normal' and not disrespectful  then why has their coach condemned their actions? Some people seem to have a compulsion to find an excuse for everything.

[sexbelowsound]

It's called a minutes silence. 

Silence being the key here.

[Straggler]

Is anyone else worried that they decided to target a football match? I go to loads of sporting events all round the world and the thought of a threat being at the next one crossed my mind. 

I know standard operating procedure is to carry on, as to change is to let the terrorists win. I know the odds are low that I will get caught up. However I know it will be in my head next time I travel to a game.

[Chindie]

They'll have targeted football and other sporting events before now. Terrorists want people watching, sporting events represent a perfect opportunity to cause a horrifying event to be seen by potentially millions, and catching absolutely everyone unaware. All Paris changed is that they got close to succeeding.

I wouldn't worry.

[Rugeley Villa]

11 minutes ago, Straggler said:

Is anyone else worried that they decided to target a football match? I go to loads of sporting events all round the world and the thought of a threat being at the next one crossed my mind. 

I know standard operating procedure is to carry on, as to change is to let the terrorists win. I know the odds are low that I will get caught up. However I know it will be in my head next time I travel to a game.

even more reason to stop attending villa park. its brilliant, we dont have to  worry about showing disloyalty now we can just blame it on the terrorists.

[TrentVilla]

47 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

The media do not care about Nigeria though

Not a big enough country to warrant getting on the front page of a western tabloid

Not picking on you or your post, yours is just the latest similar thing I've seen on here or on social media and I just don't think its right. Or at least I don't think it signifies the things people are suggesting.

Have the attacks in Paris got more media coverage than recent events across the Middle East? Yes absolutely but I just don't buy the accusation that their is a deep rooted hypocrisy at work, that people think lives have different values or its evidence of deep rooted racism. 

Think back to 2013 and the Westgate Mall attack in Kenya, it was all over the news and social media. Or the kidnapping of the girls, or the school massacre by Boko Haram.... there are other examples.

The sad truth is that lives don't have different values but stories do have different values to media outlets. The more shocking the event the more coverage, its what sells, what gets viewers that gets the coverage. Oh and it helps it its an hour and half from Fleet Street getting that coverage.

In terms of the public, I'm afraid its a sad reflection on the world that some events are simply more shocking than others. And yes, a series of co-ordinated attacks in Paris just down the other end of the tunnel is more shocking than events in places in the world where these things happen more frequently.

Its tragic that these things happen anywhere, its even more tragic that in some places they are so 'the norm' that they get little coverage but I just don't buy it that that is hypocrisy, that is shows underlying racism or betrays peoples views that some lives are worth more than others.

Actually, some racists probably do think that but they are few and far between and not betrayed by the odd French flag image on FB.

Rant over and as I say not directed at you, more at the ether.

[TrentVilla]

16 minutes ago, Straggler said:

Is anyone else worried that they decided to target a football match? I go to loads of sporting events all round the world and the thought of a threat being at the next one crossed my mind. 

I know standard operating procedure is to carry on, as to change is to let the terrorists win. I know the odds are low that I will get caught up. However I know it will be in my head next time I travel to a game.

I think it will be in the vast majority of peoples minds the next time they step foot in a stadium to some extent or other. 

I think the only surprise in all this is that its taken so long for someone to try it, they are relatively soft targets after all oh and the other surprise I guess is how badly they messed it up in Paris.

[Wainy316]

Let's not be silly, the Turkish fans were clearly being knobs last night.

The players and officials were making it quite clear it was meant to be a silence.

Didn't somebody saying there way of observing a silence is to boo the perpetrators. A silence!

[coda]

Two of the suspects recently owned a bar in Brussels. What's that all about?

[TrentVilla]

1 minute ago, coda said:

Two of the suspects recently owned a bar in Brussels. What's that all about?

Indeed. How did a couple of refugees afford a bar so quickly? 

[VillaChris]

2 hours ago, YGabbana said:

https://www.rt.com/news/322488-nigeria-market-blast-yola/

 

R.I.P to the victims, Boko Haram have probably killed just as many as ISIS in Africa.

 

Minutes silence and complete media coverage? I doubt it.

They are all Tragic for loss of life. The only thing I'd say to people here and in the press making this point is people tend to associate more with closer to home e.g Paris only an hour or so away from home and many of us on this forum will have visited the City at some stage.

Less so Nigeria and Yemen, not trying to dismiss it, that's just the reality. 

[TrentVilla]

 

If only Muslims would speak out against this sort of thing.....

Oh they have, countless times but some people aren't listening.

A consortium of one hundred and twenty Islamic Scholars have placed onto the internet an Open Letter to Islamic State (ISIS) leader Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi denouncing the organization’s violent and extremist actions in the Middle East. The letter, in the form of an interactive website, provides the world with an opportunity to read a perspective of the Islamic State’s affront to civilization from an academic analysis by scholars. The letter addresses the fundamental and basis in canon for disputing the claims of Al-Baghdadi that his is the only pure and legitimate form of Islam–refuting his claims of divine assent.

The original, in the Arabic, is presently being translated into other languages. The English is presently available.

There has been unfortunately much misconception in the Western World that there lacks true dissent to the terrorist outrages in the Muslim World.  This letter can serve a secondary goal to educate those in other cultures having concerns.

 

Here follows the contents of the Open Letter:

Executive Summary

1. It is forbidden in Islam to issue fatwas without all the necessary learning requirements. Even then fatwas must follow Islamic legal theory as defined in the Classical texts. It is also forbidden to cite a portion of a verse from the Qur’an—or part of a verse—to derive a ruling without looking at everything that the Qur’an and Hadith teach related to that matter. In other words, there are strict subjective and objective prerequisites for fatwas,and one cannot ‘cherry-pick’ Qur’anic verses for legal arguments without considering the entire Qur’an and Hadith.
2. It is forbidden in Islam to issue legal rulings about anything without mastery of the Arabic language.
3. It is forbidden in Islam to oversimplify Shari’ah matters and ignore established Islamic sciences.
4. It is permissible in Islam [for scholars] to differ on any matter, except those fundamentals of religion that all Muslims must know.
5. It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of contemporary times when deriving legal rulings.
6. It is forbidden in Islam to kill the innocent.
7. It is forbidden in Islam to kill emissaries, ambassadors, and diplomats; hence it is forbidden to kill journalists and aid workers.
8. Jihad in Islam is defensive war. It is not permissible without the right cause, the right purpose and without the right rules of conduct.
9. It is forbidden in Islam to declare people non-Muslim unless he (or she) openly declares disbelief.
10. It is forbidden in Islam to harm or mistreat—in any way—Christians or any ‘People of the Scripture’.
11. It is obligatory to consider Yazidis as People of the Scripture.
12. The re-introduction of slavery is forbidden in Islam. It was abolished by universal consensus.
13. It is forbidden in Islam to force people to convert.
14. It is forbidden in Islam to deny women their rights.
15. It is forbidden in Islam to deny children their rights.
16. It is forbidden in Islam to enact legal punishments (hudud ) without following the correct procedures that ensure justice and mercy.
17. It is forbidden in Islam to torture people.
18. It is forbidden in Islam to disfigure the dead.
19. It is forbidden in Islam to attribute evil acts to God.
20. It is forbidden in Islam to destroy the graves and shrines of Prophets and Companions.
21. Armed insurrection is forbidden in Islam for any reason other than clear disbelief by the ruler and not allowing people to pray.
22. It is forbidden in Islam to declare a caliphate without consensus from all Muslims.
23. Loyalty to one’s nation is permissible in Islam.
24. After the death of the Prophet, Islam does not require anyone to emigrate anywhere.

You are invited to read the letter in its entirety. It may be found below. As an aid in navigation, click on the link for [Read The Letter] followed by page turning navigation arrows at the upper left of the screen.

http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com/

[Chindie]

3 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Indeed. How did a couple of refugees afford a bar so quickly? 

Mossad gave them the money and then gave them a crash course in militant Islam...

 

More seriously I've not seen the story but it wouldn't be that shocking. A lot of the guys that have joined IS and the like are actually from lapsed or straight up largely irreligious Muslim backgrounds. They are disillusioned and the extremist discourse basically says 'Heres a cause, makes something of your life, make a difference' and suddenly they're fundamentalists. Then owning a bar wouldn't be completely out of the question.

[Demitri_C]

5 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

So you're saying they have to conform to our cultural way of doing things?

As a general point not aimed at anyone, I think it will be quite some time before 'english football fans' (if we are going for grand stereotypes) can claim any moral high ground on respect.

Its not our way is it? If you go around the globe when a tragedy happens most people either fall silent or will do a minute applause. So I dont understand why your pointing as just a UK thing? No excuse for it in my view

[TrentVilla]

1 minute ago, Chindie said:

Mossad gave them the money and then gave them a crash course in militant Islam...

 

More seriously I've not seen the story but it wouldn't be that shocking. A lot of the guys that have joined IS and the like are actually from lapsed or straight up largely irreligious Muslim backgrounds. They are disillusioned and the extremist discourse basically says 'Heres a cause, makes something of your life, make a difference' and suddenly they're fundamentalists. Then owning a bar wouldn't be completely out of the question.

Indeed. It seems a common theme with Western Jihadists, they drink, drugs, crime, prison and then they find a different path, or are found and taken down one. One that gives them self respect, self worth, respect of their peers, a purpose, belonging all the things they've probably lacked all their life and we sadly know where it leads.

 

[Xann]

48 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Do we care.

When it's ordinary Joe just getting on with it, we should, wherever they are.

Attacks on Russian airliners, Palestinian hospitals, Israeli bus stations and Kenyan Universities reek of cowardice.

Take your argument to the people who make the decisions.

[choffer]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

Indeed. It seems a common theme with Western Jihadists, they drink, drugs, crime, prison and then they find a different path, or are found and taken down one. One that gives them self respect, self worth, respect of their peers, a purpose, belonging all the things they've probably lacked all their life and we sadly know where it leads.

 

I'd imagine it's very much part of the recruitment considerations. "Who do we know who has a dodgy past and therefore knows will struggle to find acceptance in mainstream Muslim life? It'd be even better if they didn't really understand the scriptures so we can manipulate them effectively. Oh and I bet the thought of guns and explosives will be a big attraction to them, although I'm sure the virgins in heaven will interest them too".