gharperr Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) 12 minutes ago, donnie said: Okay Einstein, go ahead. Interpret what else that could mean: 'One in 9 feel sympathetic towards those who want to fight against Western intrests'? the point is you arnt supposed to interpret poll questions as anything but what the statement says. Drawing logical conclusions from them holds 0 weight. Not sure if you noticed, but human minds arnt the most logical things in the world and your logical deduction of a statement may not have the same step for those who are taking part in the poll. For instance: Western interests could mean going to war for oil. And fighting can be interpreted as political speech or sharing a fb picture about it. It could also mean the death of thousands of innocent people. Who knows? Basically poll questions are a bit naff unless the statement is pretty specific itself which this statement isnt And stefans post about the word "sympathetic" Edited November 17, 2015 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 17, 2015 Moderator Share Posted November 17, 2015 27 minutes ago, donnie said: Okay Einstein, go ahead. Interpret what else that could mean: 'One in 9 feel sympathetic towards those who want to fight against Western intrests'? Donnie, it may help to look at the actual question that were asked. I probably should have linked them as well/instead of the BBC web page (then again, you first raised the existence of the poll, so I thought you might have read it). The comres survey is a pdf and is here Included in it is 6% of those surveyed agreed with the statement that "I feel a disloyalty to Britain" 35% agreed with "I feel most british people don't trust muslims" 20% agreed that "western liberal society can never be compatible with Islam" and on the cartoons Quote Do you agree or disagree with the..statement Organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammad deserve to be attacked Agree 11% Acts of violence against those who publish images of the Prophet Mohammad can never be justified - Disagree 24% "I know Muslims who feel strongly sympathetic towards people fighting for IS and Al-Qaeda" - 8% said that applied to them So that's a worry, for both Muslims and non muslims - it's not good to have such major diversions and to have one part of society feeling untrusted by the rest (and a small part of that sympathetic to Al Qaeda and IS.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 You can reliably get 10% of the population to agree to more or less anything in a poll, but to be honest I do find that 27% figure pretty worrying overall. Just in general, it's concerning how many people hate us. Still, as we've seen this thread, plenty of people just desperate to create millions more enemies by invading Syria or re-invading Iraq. Absolute foolishness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I'm actually generally reassured by these figures. Given the vagueness (possibly deliberate) of the questions, I don't think those figures are too bad at all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 6 minutes ago, Jon said: I'm actually generally reassured by these figures. Given the vagueness (possibly deliberate) of the questions, I don't think those figures are too bad at all. Exactly! And Pete, the 11% question proves my point if anything. 27% sympathise with the motives. Loaded language if you ask me. 11% think people who publish pictures of Muhammad deserve to be attacked. Sharp jump down when the language becomes more specific. I bet if you replaced attacked with killed then the number would drop just as sharply. Ergo, why those numbers don't worry me in the slightest, and on the flip side, that so many Muslims can't even sympathise with the Charlie Hebdo attack is reassuring. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Even the outcome of a poll constructed in 2015 can be skewed depending on interpretation of the script. You would think we would have learned how to avoid this by now . Vaguely constructed sentences will be the death of humanity, not a lack of bees. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 10 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Exactly! And Pete, the 11% question proves my point if anything. 27% sympathise with the motives. Loaded language if you ask me. 11% think people who publish pictures of Muhammad deserve to be attacked. Sharp jump down when the language becomes more specific. I bet if you replaced attacked with killed then the number would drop just as sharply. Ergo, why those numbers don't worry me in the slightest, and on the flip side, that so many Muslims can't even sympathise with the Charlie Hebdo attack is reassuring. It's 2015 the figure should be 0% but saying that .... As is the way with social media there is a video doing the rounds of Muslims demolishing British soldiers war graves , very methodical , hammers the works ....no date or time or locations was supplied of course ..just to up the outrage and suggest it was recent ..however as I took 5 seconds to look into it the video was from Libya 2012 .... But the video made me quite angry ..no actually very angry ..... do those rocket polishers deserved to be attacked ..yes ... so If I was polled at that very moment then I'd be part of the 11% (or higher ) should also state that those same people also attacked and demolished Muslim shrines as well .. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) https://twitter.com/AP/status/666683968805339137 Germany game cancelled. Edited November 17, 2015 by NoelVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 17, 2015 Moderator Share Posted November 17, 2015 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: Exactly! And Pete, the 11% question proves my point if anything. 27% sympathise with the motives. Loaded language if you ask me. 11% think people who publish pictures of Muhammad deserve to be attacked. Sharp jump down when the language becomes more specific. I bet if you replaced attacked with killed then the number would drop just as sharply. Ergo, why those numbers don't worry me in the slightest, and on the flip side, that so many Muslims can't even sympathise with the Charlie Hebdo attack is reassuring. Your point is valid, and I'd agree that the number who would say they would personally attack...would be next to zero. That said, I personally find it to be a problem for us all that there's this smallish, but not insignificant number of people with such a very strongly different (and to me) pretty appalling set of views. I know the minority doesn't represent the majority, and I personally don't know anyone who holds those views, but still, I believe they exist and I believe it would be helpful if there weren't such outlooks, frankly. There are to me clearly some very different sets of values between the majority population and parts of the minority population that will lead to more, not fewer problems. I find it troubling in the same way that people might say "she deserved it with what she was wearing" - it's not the same as saying they are rapists themselves, but well, I'm sure you get the point. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) 2 hours ago, blandy said: I find it sad that there's apparently, from the survey, such a difference between us that one part of society clearly has a quarter (in the survey) feel that it can be OK to act violently against someone for publishing images of the Prophet Muhammad. I mean that's just fundamentally wrong to my brain. Whether that segment of that religions followers in this country agree with the actual killings or not, that they feel there can be justification to carry out violence against people just for doing drawings... There's a problem there. There is. It is alarming, but to be fair the percentages seem fairly comparable with similar polling of the UK Muslim community following 7/7: Muslim attitudes towards terrorism Quote A YouGov survey for the Daily Telegraph,[6] published two weeks after the July 2005 bombings in the London Underground, showed that 88% of British Muslims were opposed to the bombings, while 6% (about 100,000 individuals) fully supported them, and one British Muslim in four expressed some sympathy with the motives of the bombers.[7] A 2007 poll found that one Muslim in four thought the Government had staged the bombings and framed the Muslims convicted. 25% expressing some sympathy for the motives of the murderers, far fewer actually agreeing with the attacks themselves. The number who believed it was a conspiracy are quite shocking though, some proper tinfoilhattery going on there! Point being there seems to be a steady and solid 75% of the UK Muslim community who have no time for arguments advanced to justify terrorism and violence. 25% are more minded to sympathise but not to the point of actually endorsing violence. A smaller core of 5-6% seem pretty irreconcilable and hostile to the wider country, up to and including the use of violence. If you want to get down into more detail there are some pretty chilling polling numbers on this link here but I don't want to digress even further from the events in Paris. Edited November 17, 2015 by Awol links Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 17, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted November 17, 2015 51 minutes ago, NoelVilla said: https://twitter.com/AP/status/666683968805339137 Germany game cancelled. According to the German Police it was cancelled because there were "Concrete plans to bring about an explosion" Worrying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted November 17, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted November 17, 2015 You just have to be thankful they've caught it. But 90 minutes before kick off is just scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Apparently an ambulance full of explosives found. Thank Mcgrath they did if true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 2 hours ago, Brumerican said: Even the outcome of a poll constructed in 2015 can be skewed depending on interpretation of the script. You would think we would have learned how to avoid this by now . Vaguely constructed sentences will be the death of humanity, not a lack of bees. Death to the market researchers! Okay, not death but something very painful - well maybe just painful enough that they stop doing bloody market research. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 4 minutes ago, snowychap said: Death to the market researchers! Okay, not death but something very painful - well maybe just painful enough that they stop doing bloody market research. Working in market research is punishment enough. It's a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 In a sample of 3.6 million Scots, 45% of them wanted to take 36% of the Great Britain land mass and set it up a totally separate country. We need to do something I'm not quite prepared to say about this!!!!! I'm angrily skirting around something here!!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 7 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: In a sample of 3.6 million Scots, 45% of them wanted to take 36% of the Great Britain land mass and set it up a totally separate country. We need to do something I'm not quite prepared to say about this!!!!! I'm angrily skirting around something here!!!!! Don't be shy, get it off your chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) there are some things in my mind that wont change much and that is my stance on immigration purely because you cannot keep letting people in year after year after year but yes maybe my mind regarding muslims can be changed to a more liberal way of thinking. regarding islam i hope to see my views change a little but there are so many things wrong with it thats creating terrorists its unreal and i do think islam does need to change like maybe people like me do. apart from my probable ignorant views about muslim areas like alum rock etc i do find these polls disturbing if true and they are not the first polls ive seen that indicate my worries of there being a lot more radical muslims than people think. i do honestly think its rising in popularity and spreading whether being radical in their actions or just having radical thoughts and not putting them into practise. one thing i can say is that maybe bombing the hell out of these countries is not the answer, although im definitely not with jeremy corbyn and his gang because i do believe we seriously need to get a strategy in place to stop isis and then after that try and build bridges with that part of the world and its people. anyway ive had years of thinking this way and years of having people around me who think this way so its not easy to try and look the other way although my missus is probably the only person i know who swings more to the left than the right. must admit ive loved buying the sun and mail the last few days as ive been treated to half the paper being about islamic extremism its very worrying news about the german game being called off. Edited November 17, 2015 by Rugeley Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 1 minute ago, Awol said: Don't be shy, get it off your chest. Have you not seen Chris's previous post concerning flowers? He ain't shy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 'Western Interests' is a fairly vague term. It's quite likely that I'm an enemy of it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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