VillaChris Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 7 hours ago, Keyblade said: Well, for the second time I'm not saying Lambert performed miracles. I said that it was a miracle we managed to survive with a Championship squad and budget. Which means it was a combination of things and not just his management. Lambert deserves credit yes (and to answer your question, McLeish even less...he had a much better squad at his disposal), but some of it seems in spite of them including a huge slice of luck. Also I think you are forgetting the cost-cutting mandate from our dear Mr. Randolph. Some of the revisionism here states that Lambert got rid of our established players and made the bomb squad simply because he was a shit manager and couldn't handle established players and egos. The way I remember it was he had to get rid of them because of their contract and wage situations and was ordered to isolate them from upstairs. That first window he had to get rid of many of the highest earners, and thus had to revamp an entire squad. You know how much he was given to do so? 20M from what I remember. Even back then, 20M got u 3 maybe 4 decent bottom half players. We had to buy around 10. Spending about 2-3M per player is relegation funding no matter how you slice it. Just had a look on the 12/13 prediction thread (it's on about page 49 on the villa forum if anyone is sad enough like me to search for it). Have a guess who said this on August 6th 2012: "And our squad isn't actually as bad as people are making out. Sure it isn't anywhere near top 6 quality, but hell, last year 8-10th wasn't completely out of reach if we had a half decent manager." Apologies for not being able to copy properly but my laptop packed up and having to use a chromebook while I save up for another one! So the expectations for 12-13 was anywhere between 9th-14th. We did finish that season strongly so my expecations for the following season were along that lines as I thought Lambert had stumbled upon a succesful system but we obviously needed more depth. 14/15 was a season I expected us to seriously struggle given that was the summer we signed Senderos, Cole, richardson etc. Academic as he should've been sacked by then anwyay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 The Chelsea defeat destroyed Lambert’s mentality and thus play style in a way in which he’s never recovered imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted January 19, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 19, 2018 This is like a smelliest shit competition. They all stink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 11 hours ago, DCJonah said: Or he slowly started to send us down. The fact Tim Sherwood could take the same squad to survival and an fa cup final would support this view rather than the miracle lambert performed. I'm not saying he performed a miracle. The writing was on the wall before lambert arrived anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 On 18/01/2018 at 19:38, Stevo985 said: Quite the opposite. He tried to do loads about it. He just did he wrong thing by putting loads of strikers on. I said it earlier, but I’m convinced we’d have won that tie if he made no changes in the second half of the second leg. We were all over Bradford in the first half. They scored a flukey breakaway goal end of the second half and Lambert panicked. I’m sure if we’d carried on the way we’d been playing first half we’d have won. We lost in in the first leg. Got it back to 2-1 and then gave away a stupid goal from a corner. I knew we had blown it after that. I don't think I have been as genuinely angry after a match. Still had we got to the final we would have been outplayed by Swansea but at least it would have been a good day out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted January 20, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 20, 2018 I think we would have beaten Swansea in the final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 3 hours ago, penguin said: The Chelsea defeat destroyed Lambert’s mentality and thus play style in a way in which he’s never recovered imo. The interesting thing about that is that we actually played some really good attacking football towards the end of that season, but things started to get more defensive from the next season onwards. I agree with you though - I think that game was always at the back of his mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted January 20, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 20, 2018 8 hours ago, VillaChris said: I hated the McLeish year as much as anyone else but we'd been comfortable mid table for much of the season and only plumetted when Bent got injured. I'm not having a go Chris but I've got to say that my overall recollection of that time was being lower mid-table for most of the season with relegation a constant threat. It was with about 2/3 games to go that we finally became mathematically safe and McCleish was sacked once we were safe. But even more than that I remember the absolute turgid, caveman football. Spurs away?!?!?!?!? He played 7 defenders with Bent Up top, on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 8 hours ago, VillaChris said: Just had a look on the 12/13 prediction thread (it's on about page 49 on the villa forum if anyone is sad enough like me to search for it). Have a guess who said this on August 6th 2012: "And our squad isn't actually as bad as people are making out. Sure it isn't anywhere near top 6 quality, but hell, last year 8-10th wasn't completely out of reach if we had a half decent manager." Apologies for not being able to copy properly but my laptop packed up and having to use a chromebook while I save up for another one! So the expectations for 12-13 was anywhere between 9th-14th. We did finish that season strongly so my expecations for the following season were along that lines as I thought Lambert had stumbled upon a succesful system but we obviously needed more depth. 14/15 was a season I expected us to seriously struggle given that was the summer we signed Senderos, Cole, richardson etc. Academic as he should've been sacked by then anwyay. Our squad changed radically that summer, and I think the Lambert years and beyond really hammered home to us fans that you pretty much get what you pay for. 8-10th would have took an actual miracle with the squad we had. It still never dawned on a lot of us how paramount money was in the PL. Not to mention the utter soul destruction of the McLeish season had some of us a little too optimistic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 I would have got rid after Bradford. We had a bit of a dead cat bounce after but the writing was on the wall. I don't get the whole bomb squad thing unless they got pay rises or more wages for playing, otherwise surely if zog is on 40k just training with the kids thats a huge waste of money! He also came out with some bizarre statements "I call them number 10's" etc. Don't forget as well one season we survived we beat Arsenal away, Liverpool away, a high flying Southampton away and Chelsea at home. That's 12 points from very unlikely sources which unfortunately you wouldn't expect to pick up every season, but which goes to show how shit we were against the also rans, definete relegation form. Sherwood just talked a lot of bollocks but got the players motivated. He did well tactically against Liverpool as well made Rogers look a right mug. But he played that same way for the rest of his games here and it became very easy to defend against. Christ knows what went on with the French connection could well have not been anything to do with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 We were mostly awful under Lambert. He should have gone after the Bradford debacle having already lost three league games over Christmas conceding 15. Sherwood showed up how poor he was coming in and getting a bit of a rise out the side to stay up (I mean Tim Sherwood!!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 12 hours ago, VillaChris said: I think it's worth remembering the circmunstances when Lambert was appointed. I hated the McLeish year as much as anyone else but we'd been comfortable mid table for much of the season and only plumetted when Bent got injured. If he'd been available rest of that season I'm sure we'd have finished higher than 16th as we still drew plenty of matches after he got injured. Petrov and Dunne were injured as well for much of that season plus few others. Near the end of that season weimann, gardner, bannan, lichaj, herd were starting or our bench options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 5 hours ago, TheAuthority said: I'm not having a go Chris but I've got to say that my overall recollection of that time was being lower mid-table for most of the season with relegation a constant threat. It was with about 2/3 games to go that we finally became mathematically safe and McCleish was sacked once we were safe. But even more than that I remember the absolute turgid, caveman football. Spurs away?!?!?!?!? He played 7 defenders with Bent Up top, on his own. We beat Wolves 3-2 middle of January (Robbie Keane game) and had 27 points with about 15 games left so we were on course at that point for a comfortable mid table season. Bent got injured at Wigan in February and we won once in the last three months. Likes of Wigan and QPR were in bottom 3 at the time miles adrift and both went on amazing runs so they pretty much caught us up. It was actually very similar to Lambert's second season when we lost Benteke to his injury in March and then fell down the league but luckily had enough points on the board to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Zatman said: Petrov and Dunne were injured as well for much of that season plus few others. Near the end of that season weimann, gardner, bannan, lichaj, herd were starting or our bench options Been a few goes on this thread at what our worst ever prem line up was. Final home game of that year v Spurs he put out eight defenders (warnock was playing central midfield at the time). Heskey and Ireland were the only two attacking players on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 15 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Why are you persisting with this? @Keyblade has clearly clarified what he meant by the miracle thing, and it wasn't that lambert was performing miracles. TBH it's my hatred of the man that i haven't paid full attention to his point. Apologies to @keyblade, i should have taken his point in properly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 He has a great chance today to start strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 1 hour ago, VillaChris said: Been a few goes on this thread at what our worst ever prem line up was. Final home game of that year v Spurs he put out eight defenders (warnock was playing central midfield at the time). Heskey and Ireland were the only two attacking players on the pitch. We somehow drew that game and effectively ended Spurs' top 4 bid The away fixture takes the cake for me though. Hutton and Heskey on the wings, whew He tried to play Hutton and Cuellar on the right to nullify Bale but still got humiliated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 The new Pep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Debut win, They play Watford next, Win that & they could be joint 10th with Watford... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 That team shouldn't go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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