The Tim Sherwood Thread

[dudevillaisnice]

Keeping this current one isn't the answer.

[markavfc40]

I don't know if it is because it is a Sunday and Liverpool are currently on the box but I was just thinking back to our semi final win against Liverpool. It was 24 weeks today. I thought we were excellent that day. The best performance from us for a long time. Definitely our peak under Sherwood and arguably our biggest peak since the days of O'Neill. That day I thought we may have something good in Sherwood. Despite what has happened since I still think the performance we put in that day was quite remarkable given that just a few weeks earlier we were incomparable and were a shambles devoid of confidence and struggling to muster a decent chance let alone score a goal.

There is no denying it has been down hill since then though. I think there are many reasons for that and undeniably the biggest could very well be that the manager is simply not very good and out of his depth. I think it runs a little deeper than that though. That side that day contained 4 players we no longer have in Delph, Benteke, Vlaar and Cleverley. I think in Richards we have found a more than adequate replacement for Vlaar, I like the look of Gana and Veretout but I don't think they  are yet are on the level of Delph and Cleverley. That leaves Benteke and we haven't come anywhere near close to replacing him. I don't actually blame Sherwood for that though. Benteke was a 32 mill striker. He was worth that. Now you could argue we paid 7 mill for Benteke and we could have found another Benteke for that but players of that level come along once in a blue moon for that kind of money. If it was that easy then Liverpool wouldn't have bought Benteke, Everton wouldn't have bought Lukaku for 28 mill etc, etc.

It is why I don't think quoting that Sherwood has had 45 mill to spend quite tells the whole story. With that 45 mill he had to replace a 30 mill striker and a couple of midfielders worth upwards of 20 mill combined. All at the same time as trying to improve a squad even with those players was in other areas so poor that we finished 17th. Oh and in addition he has reduced the wage bill.

None of the above and the fact he also played a major part in saving us from relegation excuses the poor start we have had but unlike some seem to think I don't think it can all be disregarded either.  Sherwood did a good job initially and had a very tough task over the summer in trying to assemble a squad capable of at the very least staying in this division. Despite his bravado of stating we would never be in danger of relegation again I don't think he said that thinking he would subsequently then lose his four best players on top of an already big rebuilding job.

Sherwood may well be a dud. The longer this season goes on the more likely that seems. The problems at this club run way deeper than that though. Alan Shearer commented earlier that Sunderland have had problems for years and have had a big turnover in managers but nothing changes and that all them managers can't be poor it has to go deeper than that. The same applies here.

 

Edited October 4, 2015 by markavfc40

[dudevillaisnice]

Hmm I can believe Lambert, Mcleish and Sherwood are all bad managers but toed the "future is bright" line to get far too much time in the job. Won't wash now though. 

[StefanAVFC]

Cleverley had about 4 good games. I wish people would stop mentioning him as 'one of our key players'.

[Danwichmann]

I'm not going to shed any tears if Sherwood is sacked and I can more than understand the majority of fans calling for it. 

But at the same time I really don't see it changing anything. I think the biggest problem at our club is the looser mentality that goes through everyone, from the owners and the board, down to the fans (and I assume Doris the tea lady). We can bring in a different manager, even one with a winning mentality, but he'll soon be dragged down to our level.

I'm not saying the manager doesn't need changing, just that that alone won't solve our biggest problem.

I agree with the loser mentality holding the club back, but Sherwood's ace in the hole was playing to Benteke's strength last season.

Why then do we see so few crosses when we play Gestede up front? The loser mentality is one thing, but setting the team up poorly is more at fault.

Yep, like I said that doesn't mean Sherwood doesn't need changing as well. The team has got to be set up right as well but even with a better set up I think we'd still be losing to many games. 

[KSV]

Big Sam favourite for sunderland job since they're dickless now. Hope not as he will keep them up. I hope fox is making moves before it's too late 

[PaulC]

I don't now if it is because it is a Sunday and Liverpool are currently on the box but I was just thinking back to our semi final win against Liverpool. It was 24 weeks today. I thought we were excellent that day. The best performance from us for a long time. Definitely our peak under Sherwood and arguably our biggest peak since the days of O'Neill. That day I thought we may have something good in Sherwood. Despite what has happened since I still think the performance we put in that day was quite remarkable given that just a few weeks earlier we were incomparable and were a shambles devoid of confidence and struggling to muster a decent chance let alone score a goal.

There is no denying it has been down hill since then though. I think there are many reasons for that and undeniably the biggest could very well be that the manager is simply not very good and out of his depth. I think it runs a little deeper than that though. That side that day contained 4 players we no longer have in Delph, Benteke, Vlaar and Cleverley. I think in Richards we have found a more than adequate replacement for Vlaar, I like the look of Gana and Veretout but I don't think they  are yet are on the level of Delph and Cleverley. That leaves Benteke and we haven't come anywhere near close to replacing him. I don't actually blame Sherwood for that though. Benteke was a 32 mill striker. He was worth that. Now you could argue we paid 7 mill for Benteke and we could have found another Benteke for that but players of that level come along once in a blue moon for that kind of money. If it was that easy then Liverpool wouldn't have bought Benteke, Everton wouldn't have bought Lukaku for 28 mill etc, etc.

It is why I don't think quoting that Sherwood has had 45 mill to spend quite tells the whole story. With that 45 mill he had to replace a 30 mill striker and a couple of midfielders worth upwards of 20 mill combined. All at the same time as trying to improve a squad even with those players was in other areas so poor that we finished 17th. Oh and in addition he has reduced the wage bill.

None of the above and the fact he also played a major part in saving us from relegation excuses the poor start we have had but unlike some seem to think I don't think it can all be disregarded either.  Sherwood did a good job initially and had a very tough task over the summer in trying to assemble a squad capable of at the very least staying in this division. Despite his bravado of stating we would never be in danger of relegation again I don't think he said that thinking he would subsequently then lose his four best players on top of an already big rebuilding job.

Sherwood may well be a dud. The longer this season goes on the more likely that seems. The problems at this club run way deeper than that though. Alan Shearer commented earlier that Sunderland have had problems for years and have had a big turnover in managers but nothing changes and that all them managers can't be poor it has to go deeper than that. The same applies here.

 

spot on!!!

[AntrimBlack]

Signings were probably Paddy Reilly's and Almstadt's, which makes me wonder if Allardyce would come and work in those conditions. If that's the route we're going down then it might be another reason to go for a foreign coach who's more used to that kind of set up.

No. Does not work that way. Signings would involve a number of personnel. Those two would be involved as well as Fox and Sherwood. And we know Sherwood was involved in talking to players and convincing them to join us.

[markavfc40]

Hmm I can believe Lambert, Mcleish and Sherwood are all bad managers but toed the "future is bright" line to get far too much time in the job. Won't wash now though. 

 

Lambert was a very promising manager when he arrived with a very good record behind him and what appeared to be a bright future ahead. He left a shadow of that manager and had totally lost his way and compromised on the bright attacking football philosophy he arrived with and left us playing the most negative football I have seen as a Villa fan and arguably seen from any club in the Premier League era.

I don't even think in hindsight that Lambert was a poor manager or a poor choice for us. He was simply worn down by the fact you have a club that expects to stay in the Premier League at the very least, and given the history and the fan base, rightly so, being run on a relative shoe string. Lambert had a net spend of over 20 mill in just under three years. This for a squad that had just avoided relegation and in that time had to dramatically reduce the wage bill.

Now we have a manager that this pre season has spent 45 mill, generated over 40 mill in sales, and with that money had to replace a 30 mill plus striker and two midfielders worth 20 mill + combined all at the same time as rebuilding a squad even with Vlaar, Delph, Cleverley and Benteke finished 17th. Oh and he has also reduced the wage bill.

Lambert and Sherwood may well be poor managers. The point is though I am not so sure an established manager like a Pulis, Allardyce or Moyes could have done that much better given the financial constraints. Assuming of course an established manager would even come.

This should be a fantastic job for any manager and the biggest opportunity out there aside from the top 4 or 5 clubs. Due to the mismanagement of those running the club and the lack of ambition above anything other than staying in the league it means this job is a poisoned chalice.

 

Edited October 4, 2015 by markavfc40

[Spoony]

I don't now if it is because it is a Sunday and Liverpool are currently on the box but I was just thinking back to our semi final win against Liverpool. It was 24 weeks today. I thought we were excellent that day. The best performance from us for a long time. Definitely our peak under Sherwood and arguably our biggest peak since the days of O'Neill. That day I thought we may have something good in Sherwood. Despite what has happened since I still think the performance we put in that day was quite remarkable given that just a few weeks earlier we were incomparable and were a shambles devoid of confidence and struggling to muster a decent chance let alone score a goal.

There is no denying it has been down hill since then though. I think there are many reasons for that and undeniably the biggest could very well be that the manager is simply not very good and out of his depth. I think it runs a little deeper than that though. That side that day contained 4 players we no longer have in Delph, Benteke, Vlaar and Cleverley. I think in Richards we have found a more than adequate replacement for Vlaar, I like the look of Gana and Veretout but I don't think they  are yet are on the level of Delph and Cleverley. That leaves Benteke and we haven't come anywhere near close to replacing him. I don't actually blame Sherwood for that though. Benteke was a 32 mill striker. He was worth that. Now you could argue we paid 7 mill for Benteke and we could have found another Benteke for that but players of that level come along once in a blue moon for that kind of money. If it was that easy then Liverpool wouldn't have bought Benteke, Everton wouldn't have bought Lukaku for 28 mill etc, etc.

It is why I don't think quoting that Sherwood has had 45 mill to spend quite tells the whole story. With that 45 mill he had to replace a 30 mill striker and a couple of midfielders worth upwards of 20 mill combined. All at the same time as trying to improve a squad even with those players was in other areas so poor that we finished 17th. Oh and in addition he has reduced the wage bill.

None of the above and the fact he also played a major part in saving us from relegation excuses the poor start we have had but unlike some seem to think I don't think it can all be disregarded either.  Sherwood did a good job initially and had a very tough task over the summer in trying to assemble a squad capable of at the very least staying in this division. Despite his bravado of stating we would never be in danger of relegation again I don't think he said that thinking he would subsequently then lose his four best players on top of an already big rebuilding job.

Sherwood may well be a dud. The longer this season goes on the more likely that seems. The problems at this club run way deeper than that though. Alan Shearer commented earlier that Sunderland have had problems for years and have had a big turnover in managers but nothing changes and that all them managers can't be poor it has to go deeper than that. The same applies here.

 

My thoughts exactly. Great post. Only difference for me is that I think Sherwood has been well and truly found out. I wasn't on the 'Sherwood's a dud' side of the fence until that Stoke formation and team selection yesterday when I just knew we'd lost before it even kicked off.

[Guest av1]

The tipping point certainly seems to have passed. I know there are still people backing him, in the same way some fans had backed Lambert right to the death, but I remember the last week or so of Lambert's tenure and I think most of us (pro or anti) knew he was off. It feels the same now, I just hope they don't hang around to long, now is the perfect time for a new Manager. With the upcoming international break followed by a game at the Bridge we would expect to lose, the time is now.

Edited October 4, 2015 by av1

[useless]

This squad we have now, is better than the squad we had last season.

[Mantis]

I still think there's a good chance he could be sacked soon. As I've said before, changing managers probably kept us up last season so Fox and Lerner are probably nowhere near as averse to doing that again than they were this time last year.

[useless]

Signings were probably Paddy Reilly's and Almstadt's, which makes me wonder if Allardyce would come and work in those conditions. If that's the route we're going down then it might be another reason to go for a foreign coach who's more used to that kind of set up.

No. Does not work that way. Signings would involve a number of personnel. Those two would be involved as well as Fox and Sherwood. And we know Sherwood was involved in talking to players and convincing them to join us.

Not saying that Sherwood doesn't have a say at all and of course the players would have to meet him as I'm sure they'd be working with him more so than the other people I mentioned. But I think Reilly and Almstadt will be the one's identifying the players in the first place. Not sure Fox will have much of a say except from a financial point of view.

Edited October 4, 2015 by useless

[Davkaus]

This squad we have now, is better than the squad we had last season.

Is it ****. Most of the players who left would walk back in to our first 11 without a doubt.

[BOF]

This squad we have now, is better than the squad we had last season.

Is it ****. Most of the players who left would walk back in to our first 11 without a doubt.

The two statements are not mutually exclusive.

[useless]

This squad we have now, is better than the squad we had last season.

Is it ****. Most of the players who left would walk back in to our first 11 without a doubt.

I think it's easily better, and there's no way I would swap last season's squad of players for the squad we have this season.

[StefanAVFC]

We have a better squad overall now, but we have a huge benteke sized hole

[StanBalaban]

This squad we have now, is better than the squad we had last season.

Is it ****. Most of the players who left would walk back in to our first 11 without a doubt.

We'd need them to run. Where's the effort?

 

DAVKAUS OUT!!

[imavillan]

get rid of the muppet....go for clipperty Klop