The Randy Lerner thread

[spiezels]

Isn't it common knowledge the SF is Dave Kitson? I doubt he is in the know about any take overs.

I think it used to be Dave Kitson.

But I've always got the impression that it's now more of a composite character. So they get input from various players and put it all together as one "footballer".

100% used to be Kitson as I know someone who dealt with him.

The composite idea seems logical now too.

[markavfc40]

I am sure Randy must scratch his head and wonder where it all went wrong. I know I do.

I often think back to the last home game of the season in 2006/07 against Sheff Utd. It was a sell out against a side that had already been relegated and we were on the verge of finishing 11th. The atmosphere was electric though. It was pretty much the launch of proud history bright future. The European cup winners were paraded just before kick off which really got things going. To a man everyone was singing and it was as if we were all doffing our caps to the glorious past and anticipating a glorious future. I can still remember now the hairs on the back of my neck standing up and feeling emotional.

That dream of a bright future lasted for three years maybe. The reasons why it didn't come to fruition are many and there are plenty to blame but that has been debated a million times and won't change anything.

The reality of where we are now was perhaps highlighted on Saturday. There were 32k of us in VP (including approx 3k away fans). This against the current champions. The crowd did their best to back the players but there was no sense of anticipation and we would have been over the moon to get a backs to the wall draw. There is of course no shame in that against Man City but the bigger picture now wreaks of a lack of ambition. We now simply just exist and make up the numbers in the Premier League. First priority is to stay out of any relegation trouble and a successful season will be seen as finishing in the top 10.

It is only just over four years since we had our most successful, in terms of points, Premier League season. Only a handful of years since we averaged over a season 40k attendances yet it feels like a lifetime ago.

As I said at the start I often think back to that game against Sheff Utd in May 2007. I miss that feeling of believing that the club I love were going places and that belief we could be on the verge of something special. I don't have a clue when, if ever, I will have that feeling again and that genuinely makes me sad as this great club is capable of so much better.

Edited October 7, 2014 by markavfc40

[darrenm]

I'm pretty sure there's a quick and easy answer to that - some sheiks decided to play football manager in real life with the unlimited cash cheat turned on. It forced Chelsea to continue spending, and others to create more debt to compete. Without man city the MON gamble would have just about worked.

[Dodgyknees]

I am sure Randy must scratch his head and wonder where it all went wrong. I know I do.

I often think back to the last home game of the season in 2006/07 against Sheff Utd. It was a sell out against a side that had already been relegated and we were on the verge of finishing 11th. The atmosphere was electric though. It was pretty much the launch of proud history bright future. The European cup winners were paraded just before kick off which really got things going. To a man everyone was singing and it was as if we were all doffing our caps to the glorious past and anticipating a glorious future. I can still remember now the hairs on the back of my neck standing up and feeling emotional.

That dream of a bright future lasted for three years maybe. The reasons why it didn't come to fruition are many and there are plenty to blame but that has been debated a million times and won't change anything.

The reality of where we are now was perhaps highlighted on Saturday. There were 32k of us in VP (including approx 3k away fans). This against the current champions. The crowd did their best to back the players but there was no sense of anticipation and we would have been over the moon to get a backs to the wall draw. There is of course no shame in that against Man City but the bigger picture now wreaks of a lack of ambition. We now simply just exist and make up the numbers in the Premier League. First priority is to stay out of any relegation trouble and a successful season will be seen as finishing in the top 10.

It is only just over four years since we had our most successful, in terms of points, Premier League season. Only a handful of years since we averaged over a season 40k attendances yet it feels like a lifetime ago.

As I said at the start I often think back to that game against Sheff Utd in May 2007. I miss that feeling of believing that the club I love were going places and that belief we could be on the verge of something special. I don't have a clue when, if ever, I will have that feeling again and that genuinely makes me sad as this great club is capable of so much better.

Spot on Mark.

[lexicon]

Are we capable of so much better though?

 

I'm not so sure in the current climate.

[TrentVilla]

It isn't just us that have changed, the game has changed and that the two things have overlapped means that we are further behind now than ever. Thanks to the finances involved and FFP it is unlikely we will ever be able to catch up.

 

The optimism and adventure of 2007 isn't likely to be recaptured sadly and that is as much about what is wrong with the game as it is what is wrong with our club.

 

Football is ruined, its a financial arms race in which some clubs are under a embargo, some of that is Lerner's fault some of it isn't.

 

It is though hard to see how we will ever do much more than make up the numbers and that as much as the poor home form is why people have stopped going to games. 

[DCJonah]

We're not going to be a top 5/6 club and I'll accept that. But we should be challenging to be the best of the rest and do so in an entertaining way.

To just survive playing ugly football and losing most games at home is not what I expect from my club.

[TrentVilla]

I agree but achieving that while reducing wage bills, shifting high earners and not spending much on new players because the owner wants to position the club for a sale makes that extremely difficult.

[David-Copenhagen]

And still PL has done that - what more do people expect under those circumstances?

[DCJonah]

I agree but achieving that while reducing wage bills, shifting high earners and not spending much on new players because the owner wants to position the club for a sale makes that extremely difficult.

I agree. Those expectations I have should be matched by the owner and allow the manager to have a good go at meeting them.

[Richard]

Mark spot on and to think we were finishing 6th with the 6th highest wages bill that was unsustainable 

[DelboyVilla]

It isn't just us that have changed, the game has changed and that the two things have overlapped means that we are further behind now than ever. Thanks to the finances involved and FFP it is unlikely we will ever be able to catch up.

 

The optimism and adventure of 2007 isn't likely to be recaptured sadly and that is as much about what is wrong with the game as it is what is wrong with our club.

 

Football is ruin, its a financial arms race in which some clubs are under a embargo, some of that is Lerner's fault some of it isn't.

 

It is though hard to see how we will ever do much more than make up the numbers and that as much as the poor home form is why people have stopped going to games. 

 

 

There's only Everton really from last season bucking that trend and showing how to break into the top 6 using a business model not funded on unsustainable owner spending? OK they haven't had a great start to this season but I don't think they will stay in 17th for long? 

[ozvillafan]

Mark spot on and to think we were finishing 6th with the 6th highest wages bill that was unsustainable 

 

What was unsustainable was spending that kind of money with the 1-dimensional manager that was MON. The glass ceiling wasn't our spend - it was the manager's ability. You could have given him 100 mill and he'd still only finish 6th.

[Condimentalist]

I agree with Mark's excellent post above, and also Trent's. 

 

HOWEVER

 

I'm not quite so defeatist as to believe that regular top 6 finishes and pushing to get in the top 4 is such a fantasy. The odds are against us, sure, more so than ever. But we were damn close before, and with the right combination of buying and selling at the right time, good management at board and team level, allied with a spot of luck, it's attainable. 

 

Look at Southampton as an example. A smaller club than ours, recently promoted, and I really believe they have an (outside) chance of finishing in the top 4. Probably it won't happen, but it's not inconceivable. United have myriad defensive problems, Liverpool look bang average, as do Everton and Spurs. It's hard, yes, but it can be done - and our potential is greater than that of the Saints. 

 

One thing we won't see without a rule change and massive investment is a title challenge. 

[DelboyVilla]

I agree with Mark's excellent post above, and also Trent's. 

 

HOWEVER

 

I'm not quite so defeatist as to believe that regular top 6 finishes and pushing to get in the top 4 is such a fantasy. The odds are against us, sure, more so than ever. But we were damn close before, and with the right combination of buying and selling at the right time, good management at board and team level, allied with a spot of luck, it's attainable. 

 

Look at Southampton as an example. A smaller club than ours, recently promoted, and I really believe they have an (outside) chance of finishing in the top 4. Probably it won't happen, but it's not inconceivable. United have myriad defensive problems, Liverpool look bang average, as do Everton and Spurs. It's hard, yes, but it can be done - and our potential is greater than that of the Saints. 

 

One thing we won't see without a rule change and massive investment is a title challenge. 

 

 

Southampton and Everton are working to a similar model to one another in that they are buying and developing players integrating them into the first team, performing well and then the players stock rises massively. When the players stock is at it's highest they sell some of those players to the rich high earners and replace them with cheaper alternatives with potential and further develop their youth players. They both also have an ethos around the club and appoint new managers that fit the club rather than having to change to a whole new team every time a new manager is appointed. Their style of play runs through the whole club so young players can fit straight into the first team.

 

Our main problem has been the owner has never kept the ethos of the team and therefore most of the managerial appointments have been poles apart in terms of style hence we ended up with a mish mash of players that was difficult to get playing well together. Lerner then made some poor decisions regarding the reinvestment and in particular the treatment of the so called 'high earners'. He also chose poorly when replacing players like Milner, Young and Downing.

[maqroll]

It looks like Lerner is trying to consolidate a mid table position, nothing more or less until he sells. And after the scares of the last couple of season, I'll take mid table . Sad but true. We aren't going to challenge for trophies anytime soon, so we might as well look to lock down what we can, until a sugar daddy comes along.

[Villan4Life]

 

I agree with Mark's excellent post above, and also Trent's. 

 

HOWEVER

 

I'm not quite so defeatist as to believe that regular top 6 finishes and pushing to get in the top 4 is such a fantasy. The odds are against us, sure, more so than ever. But we were damn close before, and with the right combination of buying and selling at the right time, good management at board and team level, allied with a spot of luck, it's attainable. 

 

Look at Southampton as an example. A smaller club than ours, recently promoted, and I really believe they have an (outside) chance of finishing in the top 4. Probably it won't happen, but it's not inconceivable. United have myriad defensive problems, Liverpool look bang average, as do Everton and Spurs. It's hard, yes, but it can be done - and our potential is greater than that of the Saints. 

 

One thing we won't see without a rule change and massive investment is a title challenge. 

 

 

Southampton and Everton are working to a similar model to one another in that they are buying and developing players integrating them into the first team, performing well and then the players stock rises massively. When the players stock is at it's highest they sell some of those players to the rich high earners and replace them with cheaper alternatives with potential and further develop their youth players. They both also have an ethos around the club and appoint new managers that fit the club rather than having to change to a whole new team every time a new manager is appointed. Their style of play runs through the whole club so young players can fit straight into the first team.

 

Our main problem has been the owner has never kept the ethos of the team and therefore most of the managerial appointments have been poles apart in terms of style hence we ended up with a mish mash of players that was difficult to get playing well together. Lerner then made some poor decisions regarding the reinvestment and in particular the treatment of the so called 'high earners'. He also chose poorly when replacing players like Milner, Young and Downing.

 

Could add Swansea to that list as well, very similar to Southampton and Everton.

[ender4]

It looks like Lerner is trying to consolidate a mid table position, nothing more or less until he sells. And after the scares of the last couple of season, I'll take mid table . Sad but true. We aren't going to challenge for trophies anytime soon, so we might as well look to lock down what we can, until a sugar daddy comes along.

 

there are no sugar daddies in the FFP world.

[AVTuco]

There are.

[samjp26]

If we'd have sorted Vlaar and Delph's contracts earlier, it is likely that those two along with maybe Westwood and Benteke would end up being sold on for a fair bit of profit - this would mean we'd be able to bring in better players, like Everton or Southampton as mentioned above.

 

Unfortunately now, if either Vlaar or Delph do sign new deals, we won't be selling them next summer. If we don't sign them up, they leave for free. This is a problem that has come from the top down, we know the manager wanted the deals done, we also know that Tom Fox wants them done now. So who is to blame, Lerner? Faulkner? I guess ultimately the blame lies with Lerner, two of our major 'assets' have improved incredibly on the pitch but have reduced in value because their deals are running out.