U.S. Politics

[chrisp65]

Geographically, the two obvious routes in to Russia are to either push through Poland and Belarus or, if you’re feeling adventurous you could go through Iraq, carry on through Iran, back in to Afghanistan then up through Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan. 

Either way, we’d have a few weeks of great TV.

[Panto_Villan]

1 hour ago, magnkarl said:

Will the rest of the republican spectrum vote for Trump? I somehow feel that the next term might be the year for someone from the middle. Someone who's not Marjorie Taylor Greene, Matt Gaetz, Lauren Boebert or the type. It seems to me that many republicans are tired of the total lunacy they're seeing to the right of them.

I’d love this to be true but seeing everyone that voted to censure Trump for the Capitol  uprising or refusing to go along with his election fraud claims being run out of the GOP doesn’t fill me with hope, personally. I think Trumpism will live on even if Trump himself doesn’t run.

I do hope you’re right though. Never has someone like Mitt Romney seemed more appealing.

[OutByEaster?]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

you could go through Iraq, carry on through Iran, back in to Afghanistan then up through Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan. 

Anyone else read this to the talky bit for the Only Fools and Horses theme tune?

 

[sidcow]

It's just absolutely mental that the guy who was behind the invasion of Capitol Hill could have any chance whatsoever of becoming president again. 

It would be completely nuts if his party allowed him to run again and it would be completely nuts for the electorate to choose him. 

The fact that is not only being discussed as a possibility but a reasonable probability is utter proof to the outside world that the USA is completely **** up. 

It's so unfortunate that such a messed up country is the current policeman of the world.  That's a title they are inevitably going to lose because of their insanity and even more unfortunately it's probably going to be China who usurp them which will result in even more madness. 

The world is getting very worrying at the moment.  We could press for the reinstatement of the British Empire but that would leave Boris in charge of the world............... 

[cyrusr]

5 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

Geographically, the two obvious routes in to Russia are to either push through Poland and Belarus or, if you’re feeling adventurous you could go through Iraq, carry on through Iran, back in to Afghanistan then up through Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan. 

Either way, we’d have a few weeks of great TV.

What about through the back entrance via Alaska? DRUTWU?

[meregreen]

In the UK we have various oddballs, if they vote, they tend to go for oddball candidates ie Monster Raving Loony. It’s just insane to see a major Political Party in the USA actually being taken over by these dingbats. How the Hell did we get here

[sidcow]

2 hours ago, meregreen said:

In the UK we have various oddballs, if they vote, they tend to go for oddball candidates ie Monster Raving Loony. It’s just insane to see a major Political Party in the USA actually being taken over by these dingbats. How the Hell did we get here

I know people (me included) think that it's Mental that Boris got to be PM but let's face it, that was on the back of 1 highly specific issue. I reckon the party will chuck him out sooner than later regardless. 

But if a politician had caused an invasion of Parliament there is not a chance in hell he would ever get to lead his party again and no way the public would ever vote him in again. 

We have shown poor judgement as a nation but we're not loop the loop enough to ever let that happen. No way. 

[TheAuthority]

11 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

Geographically, the two obvious routes in to Russia are to either push through Poland and Belarus or, if you’re feeling adventurous you could go through Iraq, carry on through Iran, back in to Afghanistan then up through Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan. 

PARKLIFE!

[TheAuthority]

11 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

I’d love this to be true but seeing everyone that voted to censure Trump for the Capitol  uprising or refusing to go along with his election fraud claims being run out of the GOP doesn’t fill me with hope, personally. I think Trumpism will live on even if Trump himself doesn’t run.

I do hope you’re right though. Never has someone like Mitt Romney seemed more appealing.

Trump is running. Anyone who thinks he isn't is kidding themselves or naive.

Cholesterol is our best friend at this point.

[TheAuthority]

Grauniad today 

Quote

The Next US Civil War is already here.

The legal system grows less legitimate by the day. Trust in government at all levels is in freefall, or, like Congress, with approval ratings hovering around 20%, cannot fall any lower. Right now, elected sheriffs openly promote resistance to federal authority. Right now, militias train and arm themselves in preparation for the fall of the Republic. Right now, doctrines of a radical, unachievable, messianic freedom spread across the internet, on talk radio, on cable television, in the malls.

The consequences of the breakdown of the American system is only now beginning to be felt. January 6 wasn’t a wake-up call; it was a rallying cry. The Capitol police have seen threats against members of Congress increase by 107%. Fred Upton, Republican representative from Michigan, recently shared a message he had received: “I hope you die. I hope everybody in your family dies.” And it’s not just politicians but anyone involved in the running of the electoral system. Death threats have become a standard aspect of the work life of election supervisors and school board members. A third of poll workers, in the aftermath of 2020, said they felt unsafe.

 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/04/next-us-civil-war-already-here-we-refuse-to-see-it

Ironically, the Liberal elites at my lefty University are having a nice talk about it online Jan 7th and anyone can sign up. According to that article we should be buying weapons and training our kids how to plant landmines.

https://udenver.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_AKZl0CTERnOdxQ7emHM6aA

[nick76]

7 minutes ago, TheAuthority said:

Trump is running. Anyone who thinks he isn't is kidding themselves or naive.

I don’t think he will, he’s grifting until the last minute but won’t ultimately run.

[magnkarl]

The new superpowers of the world are EU, NATO and China. The US has lost all its soft power by being loonies if they reelect the guy that promoted horse medication as a cure to corona. I've no idea how the once sensible US managed to fall this far. That goes for both sides of the spectrum, MSNBC and Fox is just as bad as each other with constant opinion 'news'. No one in the US actually knows what the news is anymore as they're being spoon fed by Tucker Carlsson and Rachel Maddow.

America's press freedom is ranked 41st in the world. That is a seriously crappy number for the country that claims to be nr 1.

[meregreen]

Comparing Maddow to Carlson is ridiculous. She doesn’t lie. Your right, American News is extremely opinionated, always has been, but Fox make the rests partisanship pale into insignificance. They are by far the worst. The Daily Mail keeping in some pretty dire company there.

Edited January 5, 2022 by meregreen

[magnkarl]

9 minutes ago, meregreen said:

Comparing Maddow to Carlson is ridiculous. She doesn’t lie. Your right, American News is extremely opinionated, always has been, but Fox make the rests partisanship pale into insignificance. They are by far the worst. The Daily Mail keeping in some pretty dire company there.

I'm not saying that Rachel Maddow is the same as Carlson, I'm saying that she's doing opinion hyperbole 'news'casts which does anything but inform people. It's a two hour show meant to enrage the left side of the spectrum, just like Carlson does the same to the idiots on the right.

Turn them both off. Americans should stop watching the news rather than watching the pitiful TV-channels that call themselves 'news' in America.

[TheAuthority]

“Don’t inform people with news, tell them how to feel.”

Roger Aisles - Founder Fox News 

[Panto_Villan]

6 hours ago, magnkarl said:

The new superpowers of the world are EU, NATO and China. The US has lost all its soft power by being loonies if they reelect the guy that promoted horse medication as a cure to corona. I've no idea how the once sensible US managed to fall this far. That goes for both sides of the spectrum, MSNBC and Fox is just as bad as each other with constant opinion 'news'. No one in the US actually knows what the news is anymore as they're being spoon fed by Tucker Carlsson and Rachel Maddow.

America's press freedom is ranked 41st in the world. That is a seriously crappy number for the country that claims to be nr 1

NATO isn’t a superpower in its own right, it’s just an organisation that magnifies American power and allows the EU to keep existing. Without America it would disintegrate immediately.

The EU has no genuinely credible military force either, especially now we’ve left. France is the only significant military power in the bloc, countries like Germany are nowhere near hitting the 2% of GDP military spending target. Russia is a fading power but I’d still back Russia to win a war against the EU if it wasn’t allowed to pull in the rest of NATO.

America has lost a fair bit of their soft power but they still retain an awful lot because the alternative is China, and a lot of countries think China is a worse bully than America is. And the US has lost very little of their hard power.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Panto_Villan

[sidcow]

8 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

NATO isn’t a superpower in its own right, it’s just an organisation that magnifies American power and allows the EU to keep existing. Without America it would disintegrate immediately.

The EU has no genuinely credible military force either, especially now we’ve left. France is the only significant military power in the bloc, countries like Germany are nowhere near hitting the 2% of GDP military spending target. Russia is a fading power but I’d still back Russia to win a war against the EU if it wasn’t allowed to pull in the rest of NATO.

America has lost a fair bit of their soft power but they still retain an awful lot because the alternative is China, and a lot of countries think China is a worse bully than America is. And the US has lost very little of their hard power.

It's a pointless discussion because it would end in nuclear armageddon but I think the combined EU armies would beat Russia in a conventional war.  The equipment would be so superior. 

What you add it all together there is a lot of cutting edge equipment even if not the same manpower. 

[Panto_Villan]

41 minutes ago, sidcow said:

It's a pointless discussion because it would end in nuclear armageddon but I think the combined EU armies would beat Russia in a conventional war.  The equipment would be so superior. 

What you add it all together there is a lot of cutting edge equipment even if not the same manpower. 

It’s only France that has nukes in the EU so conceivably Russia could gobble up quite a bit of Eastern Europe before someone decided to end the world, but yeah, you would hope nukes would act as a deterrent before it got that far.

That said I’m curious as to what technology you think the EU has that’s vastly superior to Russian equipment, and who operates it? The Russians have run a massive military modernisation project since the 2000s and their equipment is generally on par with Western equivalents these days, plus it’s been battle tested in various places (e.g. Syria) so they know it works. You talk like they’re using old Cold War gear, but that Russia is long gone.

I actually think it would be the other way around. It looks like the EU has more men and equipment overall than Russia does, but a lot of it would be more outdated than the stuff the Russians are using. For instance the Greeks have 1,600 tanks compared to the Russian 2,500 tanks, but the most modern Greek stuff is on par with the least modern stuff the Russians are using - and the Russians have another 7000 of those tanks sitting in storage!

Edited January 5, 2022 by Panto_Villan
edit to add a bit more info

[meregreen]

2 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

It’s only France that has nukes in the EU so conceivably Russia could gobble up quite a bit of Eastern Europe before someone decided to end the world, but yeah, you would hope nukes would act as a deterrent before it got that far.

That said I’m curious as to what technology you think the EU has that’s vastly superior to Russian equipment, and who operates it? The Russians have run a massive military modernisation project since the 2000s and their equipment is generally on par with Western equivalents these days, plus it’s been battle tested in various places (e.g. Syria) so they know it works. You talk like they’re using old Cold War gear, but that Russia is long gone.

I actually think it would be the other way around. It looks like the EU has more men and equipment overall than Russia does, but a lot of it would be more outdated than the stuff the Russians are using. For instance the Greeks have 1,600 tanks compared to the Russian 2,500 tanks, but the most modern Greek stuff is on par with the least modern stuff the Russians are using - and the Russians have another 7000 of those tanks sitting in storage!

If the wars in Vietnam, Afghanistan etc have taught anything, it’s that equipment isn’t worth much against highly motivated people fighting on their own turf. Most tanks these days can be taken out by one guy with an anti tank shoulder weapon. Let’s hope none of this is put to the test.

[chrisp65]

2 minutes ago, meregreen said:

If the wars in Vietnam, Afghanistan etc have taught anything, it’s that equipment isn’t worth much against highly motivated people fighting on their own turf AND the weather and geography combo’s that make these places pretty useless for heavy armour.

 

Afghanistan, your spy drone and satellite and radar can’t see inside caves and can’t see in a sand storm, the sand settles and gets rained on and turns to mud and the vehicles can’t get up and around those mountains and valleys and plains.

Same for Vietnam but with the words jungle and river thrown in.

Currently reading a book on geo politics so I’m quite the expert.